100% agree with you, pirates dominate early and mid game. Though imo the worst offender is the parrot, since its broken without making you locked into a pirate only comp (basically a baron on your most important deathrattle).
Parrot ain't even a Pirate. Got nothing to do with them. Just a straight Beast.
Playing at mid 6k. Not a single Pirate in top. The highest Pirates I saw were 4th.
I appreciate the sample size is terribly small, but usually when something is broken, it immediately sticks out. I don't see it in Pirates. Just a good tribe, maybe one of the best, this is yet to be established. But I don't see them being broken, at least for now.
Playing at mid 6k. Not a single Pirate in top. The highest Pirates I saw were 4th.
I appreciate the sample size is terribly small, but usually when something is broken, it immediately sticks out. I don't see it in Pirates. Just a good tribe, maybe one of the best, this is yet to be established. But I don't see them being broken, at least for now.
Depends what part is broken. Parrot is pretty ridiculous, so is cannon (basically juggler without the minion type requirement). Lategame? They're unable to compete, so won't be hitting top that oftem. They do seem to be reliable top4s, though, because of that early control with cannon/yoho into the TT4 getting going with the pirate synergies.
Every winning player in the my past 20 games was a pirate player, and patches-grim character wins every single game I've seen having 30-40 hp in the end. Basically whatever build you have, pirates are better.
Depends what part is broken. Parrot is pretty ridiculous, so is cannon (basically juggler without the minion type requirement). Lategame? They're unable to compete, so won't be hitting top that oftem. They do seem to be reliable top4s, though, because of that early control with cannon/yoho into the TT4 getting going with the pirate synergies.
Depends what part is broken. Parrot is pretty ridiculous, so is cannon (basically juggler without the minion type requirement). Lategame? They're unable to compete, so won't be hitting top that oftem. They do seem to be reliable top4s, though, because of that early control with cannon/yoho into the TT4 getting going with the pirate synergies.
Parrot isn't a pirate
cannon isn't a pirate
Technically, no, they're not pirates. Flavour-wise, both are; in practise, cannon feels like it should be, but it's just too good even without the extra synergy from yoho, and parrot... just synegizes better with non pirates. Howveer, my point is that both feel too strong, but because they're early effects they don't generally show in top2, showing that top2 numbers don't actually show if there's a lower tier issue. Paired with the timing of pirates, it's a strong, relatively reliable strat for Top4, tbh.
While I do agree that pirates aren't late game option (unless you have like 4 Hoggers), the problem with pirates is that they can cause so much damage to other players in the mid game. Toppled with the cannons in the early game, this patch is all about safely maneuvering into a late game build (murlocs or beast) without being one of the few unlucky players getting toppled by 15+ dmg. Playing at 7k+ mmr so not sure about how it is higher up.
Seriously you get a pirate with windfury who buffs pirates when he attacked and another pirate that buffs him in each attack. Just went from 24 health to 8th place because of that combo. BG high role garbage.
I love combo like this. Maybe I gotta give a BG another try now...
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EU 11/2015+ , f2p 03/2021+: DK 63/ DH 205 /Dr 277 / Hu 733 / Ma 6666 / Pa 1072 / Pr 1165 / Ro 1791 / Sh 1303 / Wl 707 / Wr 664
My experience both with and against Pirates is that they can build very threatening boards in the mid-game but actually their late-game is fairly weak, which is surely how the class was designed. They are far from unbeatable and I don't think they're notably unbalanced, but a slight tweak is perhaps in order. They probably need a bit of balancing because the mid-game chunk potential is real but I don't think it's a car crash or anything.
My experience both with and against Pirates is that they can build very threatening boards in the mid-game but actually their late-game is fairly weak, which is surely how the class was designed.
Yeah - end game, they just don't scale in the same way that other comps can.
Technically, no, they're not pirates. Flavour-wise, both are; in practise, cannon feels like it should be, but it's just too good even without the extra synergy from yoho, and parrot... just synegizes better with non pirates. Howveer, my point is that both feel too strong, but because they're early effects they don't generally show in top2, showing that top2 numbers don't actually show if there's a lower tier issue. Paired with the timing of pirates, it's a strong, relatively reliable strat for Top4, tbh.
IMO - any problem with the Parrot is actually a problem with Spawn being a TT2 minion. I would imagine we could reasonably see Spawn moved to a higher tier in the future.
Still not sure how I feel about the cannon yet. It's definitely good early on, but it seems to drop off incredibly fast. I'm not sure if you can really build a comp around it either. I'm not sure though, and I'll need to play with it more. If anything, I could see them maybe tweaking it's stats a little bit, so it can't clean up a minion as well at the end of the battle.
Technically, no, they're not pirates. Flavour-wise, both are; in practise, cannon feels like it should be, but it's just too good even without the extra synergy from yoho, and parrot... just synegizes better with non pirates. Howveer, my point is that both feel too strong, but because they're early effects they don't generally show in top2, showing that top2 numbers don't actually show if there's a lower tier issue. Paired with the timing of pirates, it's a strong, relatively reliable strat for Top4, tbh.
IMO - any problem with the Parrot is actually a problem with Spawn being a TT2 minion. I would imagine we could reasonably see Spawn moved to a higher tier in the future.
I almost kind of think the opposite. Spawn at TT2 is good, but doesn't get great until you've got a mostly full board, and doesn't stay strong into the late-game as much as Parrot.
While the Macaw isn't super strong at TT2 since you're only copying TT2 Deathrattles, it does get a lot stronger as you get into the higher tiers. Having a TT2 minion copy a TT5 Deathrattle is super strong for its tier. In some ways, an odd-but-reasonable comparison might be to Khadgar. He's someone who also copies certain kinds of effects, but is Tavern 3. They're both mini-Barons, and maybe both should be Tavern 3.
One thing about the Cannon: whether it's too strong, it's super FeelsBadMan. Opponent attacks first and gets a Cannon shot or two, and there's a decent chance you lose the round. Attack first yourself, shoot well, and it's GG the other way. That kind of polarizing RNG is pretty unfun in the early game.
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Parrot ain't even a Pirate. Got nothing to do with them. Just a straight Beast.
Played 3 games,
1st - top 2 was Demons (me) and Beasts
2nd - top 2 was Dragons (me) and Murlocs
3rd - top 2 (I was third) was Beasts and Murlocs
Playing at mid 6k. Not a single Pirate in top. The highest Pirates I saw were 4th.
I appreciate the sample size is terribly small, but usually when something is broken, it immediately sticks out. I don't see it in Pirates. Just a good tribe, maybe one of the best, this is yet to be established. But I don't see them being broken, at least for now.
Depends what part is broken. Parrot is pretty ridiculous, so is cannon (basically juggler without the minion type requirement). Lategame? They're unable to compete, so won't be hitting top that oftem. They do seem to be reliable top4s, though, because of that early control with cannon/yoho into the TT4 getting going with the pirate synergies.
.
EVERYONE , GET A BEER!
Every winning player in the my past 20 games was a pirate player, and patches-grim character wins every single game I've seen having 30-40 hp in the end. Basically whatever build you have, pirates are better.
Parrot isn't a pirate
cannon isn't a pirate
Any minion that randomly dump 3 minions with tribe synergy onto the board needs a nerf.
Boat needs to be nerfed to two pirates
Nat Pagel chests needs to not be able to summon golden Nat Pagel
Goldgrubber needs to be +1/+1
Ripsnarl captain needs to be +1/+1
Macaw needs to be an overkill effect.
I just hit enemy Coiler and he got double boats LMAO.
Also no idea why Parrot was added
Piloted Shredder, Knife Juggler, Mad Scientist, Dr. Boom
Need to be removed from this game
Technically, no, they're not pirates. Flavour-wise, both are; in practise, cannon feels like it should be, but it's just too good even without the extra synergy from yoho, and parrot... just synegizes better with non pirates. Howveer, my point is that both feel too strong, but because they're early effects they don't generally show in top2, showing that top2 numbers don't actually show if there's a lower tier issue. Paired with the timing of pirates, it's a strong, relatively reliable strat for Top4, tbh.
The b!tching begins!
Do not touch my boat!
I mean endgame murlocs still win if you get there, not that different or hard to do really.
While I do agree that pirates aren't late game option (unless you have like 4 Hoggers), the problem with pirates is that they can cause so much damage to other players in the mid game. Toppled with the cannons in the early game, this patch is all about safely maneuvering into a late game build (murlocs or beast) without being one of the few unlucky players getting toppled by 15+ dmg. Playing at 7k+ mmr so not sure about how it is higher up.
I love combo like this. Maybe I gotta give a BG another try now...
EU 11/2015+ , f2p 03/2021+: DK 63 / DH 205 /Dr 277 / Hu 733 / Ma 6666 / Pa 1072 / Pr 1165 / Ro 1791 / Sh 1303 / Wl 707 / Wr 664
Pirates have 2 counters - Murlocs and Dragons. They won't dominate due to this simple fact.
I feel like Beasts are a bigger problem with the new patch, because Parrot.
My experience both with and against Pirates is that they can build very threatening boards in the mid-game but actually their late-game is fairly weak, which is surely how the class was designed. They are far from unbeatable and I don't think they're notably unbalanced, but a slight tweak is perhaps in order. They probably need a bit of balancing because the mid-game chunk potential is real but I don't think it's a car crash or anything.
Yeah - end game, they just don't scale in the same way that other comps can.
IMO - any problem with the Parrot is actually a problem with Spawn being a TT2 minion. I would imagine we could reasonably see Spawn moved to a higher tier in the future.
Still not sure how I feel about the cannon yet. It's definitely good early on, but it seems to drop off incredibly fast. I'm not sure if you can really build a comp around it either. I'm not sure though, and I'll need to play with it more. If anything, I could see them maybe tweaking it's stats a little bit, so it can't clean up a minion as well at the end of the battle.
I almost kind of think the opposite. Spawn at TT2 is good, but doesn't get great until you've got a mostly full board, and doesn't stay strong into the late-game as much as Parrot.
While the Macaw isn't super strong at TT2 since you're only copying TT2 Deathrattles, it does get a lot stronger as you get into the higher tiers. Having a TT2 minion copy a TT5 Deathrattle is super strong for its tier. In some ways, an odd-but-reasonable comparison might be to Khadgar. He's someone who also copies certain kinds of effects, but is Tavern 3. They're both mini-Barons, and maybe both should be Tavern 3.
One thing about the Cannon: whether it's too strong, it's super FeelsBadMan. Opponent attacks first and gets a Cannon shot or two, and there's a decent chance you lose the round. Attack first yourself, shoot well, and it's GG the other way. That kind of polarizing RNG is pretty unfun in the early game.