The first one is very subtle but I can tell you that after playing dozens and dozens of games your first pick GREATLY affects your chances in the long-run. There's no good reason why all eight players couldn't be allowed to select from a pool of 7 just the first time. When you are offered three poor choices you often will have to delay your tavern leveling out of fear of taking too much damage. It would also be fun to experience "builds" where you take such and such unit with such and such hero.
The second one should be self-explanatory, With only 40 health to deal with taking an errant 22 damage due to poor luck (key unit sniped, rat pack burst, pilot golem dropped a megasaur, etc) or by an opponent who is on a hot streak (zerus grabbed a 6 drop, Milhouse got the early kalecgos, etc) is just disgusting. 10 is really enough damage. You can't take more than four of them and will promote slightly longer games. It just isn't fun to take ludicrous amounts of damage in one sitting.
More variation in general would be good. 2 more selections i the firste tier would make mean you would have way more variation.
I dont like the second proposal. This would make more agressive builds way worse and push the race for tier 6 to be the only important thing in the game
Edit:
I dont know if you want your picks at seven cards i the first round? If so I dont like that. Just put at couple more in the pool. If you have seven minions i the first pick you will have 8 playsers having 1 of 2 cards every time
I don't think turn 1 should be cluttered too much, considering you generally only stay at tier 1 for 1 turn, someone highrolling an Alleycat or a Murloc Tidehunter would give them an even bigger advantage as it's less likely other players will have one.
Also, damage shouldn't be capped as it allows players with 30+ life going into like tier 3 / 4 to just aggressively level to tier 5 or so and have about 2 turns to get their shit back together (which is VERY EASILY done if you're a whole tier above other players, as you get access to full high tier minion pools and get more rolls due to more minions from a high tier)
So every single game everyone starts with a 2/3 murloc or Tidecallers?
2. Damage to be capped at 10
So games take way longer?
How about give everyone a trophy too?
It feels bad to lose. Now imagine something far worse --- the games taking 20 more minutes. The guy with an early Brann or other early buffing minion is still going to win most games that take 20 more minutes. Be thankful you lost quickly.
Capping damage is unhealthy for the game, because that might allow some sneaky strats where you always level because you know you cant die at >10 health
I don't think turn 1 should be cluttered too much, considering you generally only stay at tier 1 for 1 turn, someone highrolling an Alleycat or a Murloc Tidehunter would give them an even bigger advantage as it's less likely other players will have one.
Also, damage shouldn't be capped as it allows players with 30+ life going into like tier 3 / 4 to just aggressively level to tier 5 or so and have about 2 turns to get their shit back together (which is VERY EASILY done if you're a whole tier above other players, as you get access to full high tier minion pools and get more rolls due to more minions from a high tier)
I kinda agree and kinda disagree with the OP.
First turn is literally "pick whatever is the best". And people highrolling token generators are basically ahead thanks to luck and nothing else. I don't think there's anything bad in people not being ahead of others from turn 1. Also it would allow those people who'd rather develop strategy from turn 1 (Red Whelp and Wrath Weaver) to access their starters more easily.
As for limited damage - I don't agree, but I know where the idea came from. I often play demons (because I find them quite consistent and enjoyable) and if I go for Wrath Weaver build, my health matters to me. Being fairly safe at a 20+ health I can instantly drop to the 8th place candidate just because I lost ONCE and took 20 damage. Sure, I am talking about demons, but there are also instances, when one player has a very strong board (more often than not through some random effects giving him a snowballing card) and they can deal like 25 damage each time they win. So you are sitting at 24 health, at let's say 4th place, there are 8 people still in competition... And you get paired with this dude with overwhelming board. And you loose entire game, going down to 8th place. If you weren't paired against him, pretty possible you would end up in top 4. You just got ***** by one dude with an absurdly strong board. And your misfortune was that you are the first one to get their ass wipped.
It did happen to me, more than once, most likely happened to the OP and to most of you as well. Not saying it's a good reason to implement the change OP is proposing, but I can relate to this.
That's a great suggestion actually. It really sucks when the opponent is down to one buffed Rat Pack and killing it would mean you will receive 3-4 more damage than failing to do so...
10 damage cap implications have been stated. And I think the wider t1 minion selection would be a disproportionate buff to certain heroes (token generators for Deryl & Deathwing, beasts for Rat King, Rockpool Hunter for Curator).
They need to speed up the game, takes too long. Probably can only be done by drastically speeding up the fights. I guess if they keep adding more and more powerful heroes people will get to end game quicker and in theory would make for quicker games. But it's just too much of a time sink now.
Wow if you think games are too long you have a pretty small attention span. Perhaps you are saying they are tok long in relation to gold earned then in that case you are right. Speeding up the game would just make it more pointless and more "win by luckier start"
I feel like in your first point you contradict yourself. A wider pool, as stated by others, means some players would highroll even more. Making the token minions even rarer would mean that only a lucky few would start off stronger than the rest.
As for your second point, it's impossible. It would almost defeat minions having tier ratings at all. I mean it might be possible, but would involve a complete rework of the mode entirely.
I don't see the difference between being able to pick just the first minion (you would not be able to freeze the whole lineup) and getting lucky to have it there for the choosing. I just get rly sick of being offered Dire Wolf, Micromachine, and the 1/2 murloc over and over. When that happens im playing catch up all game...
1. Wider selection on the first tavern pick
2. Damage to be capped at 10
The first one is very subtle but I can tell you that after playing dozens and dozens of games your first pick GREATLY affects your chances in the long-run. There's no good reason why all eight players couldn't be allowed to select from a pool of 7 just the first time. When you are offered three poor choices you often will have to delay your tavern leveling out of fear of taking too much damage. It would also be fun to experience "builds" where you take such and such unit with such and such hero.
The second one should be self-explanatory, With only 40 health to deal with taking an errant 22 damage due to poor luck (key unit sniped, rat pack burst, pilot golem dropped a megasaur, etc) or by an opponent who is on a hot streak (zerus grabbed a 6 drop, Milhouse got the early kalecgos, etc) is just disgusting. 10 is really enough damage. You can't take more than four of them and will promote slightly longer games. It just isn't fun to take ludicrous amounts of damage in one sitting.
Thoughts, feelings?
More variation in general would be good. 2 more selections i the firste tier would make mean you would have way more variation.
I dont like the second proposal. This would make more agressive builds way worse and push the race for tier 6 to be the only important thing in the game
Edit:
I dont know if you want your picks at seven cards i the first round? If so I dont like that. Just put at couple more in the pool. If you have seven minions i the first pick you will have 8 playsers having 1 of 2 cards every time
Silver Hand Recruit
I don't think turn 1 should be cluttered too much, considering you generally only stay at tier 1 for 1 turn, someone highrolling an Alleycat or a Murloc Tidehunter would give them an even bigger advantage as it's less likely other players will have one.
Also, damage shouldn't be capped as it allows players with 30+ life going into like tier 3 / 4 to just aggressively level to tier 5 or so and have about 2 turns to get their shit back together (which is VERY EASILY done if you're a whole tier above other players, as you get access to full high tier minion pools and get more rolls due to more minions from a high tier)
That's Incredible!
1. Wider selection on the first tavern pick
So every single game everyone starts with a 2/3 murloc or Tidecallers?
2. Damage to be capped at 10
So games take way longer?
How about give everyone a trophy too?
It feels bad to lose. Now imagine something far worse --- the games taking 20 more minutes. The guy with an early Brann or other early buffing minion is still going to win most games that take 20 more minutes. Be thankful you lost quickly.
Capping damage is unhealthy for the game, because that might allow some sneaky strats where you always level because you know you cant die at >10 health
I kinda agree and kinda disagree with the OP.
First turn is literally "pick whatever is the best". And people highrolling token generators are basically ahead thanks to luck and nothing else. I don't think there's anything bad in people not being ahead of others from turn 1. Also it would allow those people who'd rather develop strategy from turn 1 (Red Whelp and Wrath Weaver) to access their starters more easily.
As for limited damage - I don't agree, but I know where the idea came from. I often play demons (because I find them quite consistent and enjoyable) and if I go for Wrath Weaver build, my health matters to me. Being fairly safe at a 20+ health I can instantly drop to the 8th place candidate just because I lost ONCE and took 20 damage. Sure, I am talking about demons, but there are also instances, when one player has a very strong board (more often than not through some random effects giving him a snowballing card) and they can deal like 25 damage each time they win. So you are sitting at 24 health, at let's say 4th place, there are 8 people still in competition... And you get paired with this dude with overwhelming board. And you loose entire game, going down to 8th place. If you weren't paired against him, pretty possible you would end up in top 4. You just got ***** by one dude with an absurdly strong board. And your misfortune was that you are the first one to get their ass wipped.
It did happen to me, more than once, most likely happened to the OP and to most of you as well. Not saying it's a good reason to implement the change OP is proposing, but I can relate to this.
Only change i want is that tokens deal 0 damage. So if you win with only tokens on board, you should only deal your hero's tier level's damage.
That's a great suggestion actually. It really sucks when the opponent is down to one buffed Rat Pack and killing it would mean you will receive 3-4 more damage than failing to do so...
10 damage cap implications have been stated. And I think the wider t1 minion selection would be a disproportionate buff to certain heroes (token generators for Deryl & Deathwing, beasts for Rat King, Rockpool Hunter for Curator).
Yes and 3. Spawns deal half damage rounded up. I forgot about that
To mitigate damage, tokens just should deal 0 damage. That's the only change needed I feel to prevent that 7 extra damage from last hits on a rat...
They need to speed up the game, takes too long. Probably can only be done by drastically speeding up the fights. I guess if they keep adding more and more powerful heroes people will get to end game quicker and in theory would make for quicker games. But it's just too much of a time sink now.
Wow if you think games are too long you have a pretty small attention span. Perhaps you are saying they are tok long in relation to gold earned then in that case you are right. Speeding up the game would just make it more pointless and more "win by luckier start"
Nothing feels better than switching up your comp in a turn or two and dealing 20+ damage to the opponent who is at 1st place with a winstreak
I feel like in your first point you contradict yourself. A wider pool, as stated by others, means some players would highroll even more. Making the token minions even rarer would mean that only a lucky few would start off stronger than the rest.
As for your second point, it's impossible. It would almost defeat minions having tier ratings at all. I mean it might be possible, but would involve a complete rework of the mode entirely.
I don't see the difference between being able to pick just the first minion (you would not be able to freeze the whole lineup) and getting lucky to have it there for the choosing. I just get rly sick of being offered Dire Wolf, Micromachine, and the 1/2 murloc over and over. When that happens im playing catch up all game...
I'd be okay with specifically Rat Pack tokens being Tier 0, but generally speaking I think tokens should still count.