I mean, they always were a little highrolly, but right now it seems there are 5 or 6 minions in the pool that you need to roll before it's too late or you will place in the bottom 4.
I'm talking about the new tier 6 minions specifically (that carry you much more then the old tier 6 minions, except for mama bear perhaps), and mama bear / Goldrinn at 5 are another example of "must roll or lose".
What I'm saying basicly is that unless you roll Brann, Baron or most of the new tier 6 minions your chances for top 4 get very slim.
Are there any strategies that i'm not aware of that don't include these minions (new 6s and baron/brann)? Besides double golden soul juggler. Thank you.
IDK, I'm "top4" type of player - always trying to survive instead of winning whole thing, also my late game decision sux :)
(Cobalts & Jugglers do this - 60% of the time, it works every time)
But I would recommend exclusive heroes like Deryl, Millhause or Deathwing... they have also key cards but their playstyle is very different and not so dependent on those cards you mentioned. I love TT3 Deryl or even TT4 Deryl, too bad they removed all cheap divine shield minions and Righteous Protector isn't enough, DS Deryl was my top strat :/
That is a good point, I never played Putricide in example, but the new target ability might be useful.
Daryl is my hero with most 1st places, i pick it every chance i can.
Double Cobalt with resets, i played it up to double 30+ attack golden cobalts, golden eggs, rivendare etc, it still loses to dragons with nadina in my experience, but maybe I didn't build it properly. Well in my experience everything loses to dragons at a certain point :D
I used to rank up before patch, but now i can't get top 4 anymore. Maybe I should take a few days off, or I don't understand the game anymore. It just seems much more luck based to me, compared to before. Honestly i moved out of standard constructed because I hated hoping "for that card", now I'm getting the same feeling and not liking it.
I also still can't make peace with 5 gold turn, getting a token turn 1 has become too important for tempo imo.
I will give a chance to the revamped heroes though, but my favorites will always be rafaam and the new ysera. I used to be around rank 7k before patch and climbing, now 6.2k and losing, if that can help somehow.
I don't know which new T6 minions you are talking about. Kalecgos is really the only new build enabler, comparable to Mama Bear, but he needs quite some time to get off the ground. Nedina and Makarel and maybe Imp Mama can be very good, but they are only worthwhile if you already have a build that fits them.
Anyways, if you can't get to top4 without Brann, Baron, or Kalecgos, you are doing something wrong. Of course you'll need good minions to stand a chance, but there are other options as well.
Cobalt Guardian can be strong enough to get you to top 4 almost by himself, if you you get some decent support for him. Lightfang Enforcer is a great alternative for Brann in a Menagerie build, arguably better even. Annihilan Battlemaster is of course much better with Brann, but even without, it can contribute a lot to stabilize in that phase where you try to upgrade your board on 5. A decent dragon build with Waxrider can carry you through the midgame, and Razorgore is a great card to find, if you've been using some dragons. And while it's certainly not as good (or as consistent) anymore as it used to be, Wrath Weavers and Floating Watchers are still pretty strong, if you make it to 4 with enough health.
Some heroes are also quite capable to go without one of those minions. Edwin and Deryl can buff the hell out of minions like Cobalt Guardian, Bronze Warden, Cave Hydra or Security Rover. Shudderwock can imitate Brann once per turn, which is sometimes good enough to get a strong build up. Akazamzarak can cheat his way into top 4 with Ice Block. Patchwerk's extra health is also quite helpful when you don't roll well right away. A.F.Kay and Infinite Toki can get this early advantage, that wins them a few rounds automatically, meaning that you have a much better chance to push other players out, while staying unharmed.
And even if you don't get any of these, you can still end up in the top4 with a strong midgame build with Pack Leader for example, that carries you through several matches, leaving you with 30+ HP while other people in your lobby get pushed out. I've had a few games, where I was on a long winstreak, then I got nothing in the lategame, but by the time I was crushed by the people who did, half the players were already dead or close to dying.
Battlegrounds can be rough when you don't roll well or keep running into people who had a lot of luck (sometimes with Zerus, which is also an option for you). It can always happen that you end up with nothing and drop out in the bottom 4, also multiple times in a row. It can always happen that someone got the nuts and hits you for 20+ damage when you just got to T4. It will happen to everyone every now and then. But it's not as one-dimensional as you make it out to be.
If you are struggling in every game, maybe you have to reconsider your own strategy. Maybe you level up too quickly, maybe you don't invest into your minions enough, maybe you don't buy enough doubles. It really is more important to get triples while you are on 3/4/5 in order to get any lategame card, than getting a specific one, simply because you can easily fall behind without this push.
Menagerie is pretty good, I've just finished the worst 3rd place menagerie build ever, but good enough, crushed by murlocs though. Unfortunately I didn't see a single Hydra, so The Beast was the beast and other subpar zoo members made it through. GG
You should also consider that a lot of people miss opportunities to improve their comp even by a little, and most people do triples incorrectly. Often unless really behind the best thing to do with a triple is buy the second best thing in the bar, (or even multiple things besides the triple), wait until next turn, level, then buy the triple, even occasionally if far enough ahead. . Level and buy one thing (maybe even selling something to just upgrade one unit), next turn level again, sell 1 thing to upgrade a unit, then 3rd turn from then triple, now instead of getting a 4 drop you've gotten a 5 or 6 drop, and only did 1 extra level.
And that's just 1 example of how to improve play, and like others have said you don't need one of the "main" comps to get into the top 4. I often just but best available, tweak as I go, and land top 4. It's a balancing act.
Another thing to consider that's worked for me is getting better at reading the lobby. Sometimes depending on my comp I just stay at the 3 to 4 level and it's often good. Sure there may be that 1 lucky person that lucked into an early bran or baron, so I have a chance to come in second or third instead of 1st (though I still come in 1st sometimes. )
Also seconded on Deryl, I don't even think so "pros" play him that well. He is by far my most winingest hero.
Sometimes you don’t get anything and lose, this happens. I’ve steamrolled the early game and raced to tavern 5 only to get absolutely nothing for an endgame build to settle for 4th or 5th,
play well and thoughtfully to get 4th but you’ll need rng on your side to place higher.
all the strategy in the world goes out the window if you simply don’t get offered anything by bob,
Also seconded on Deryl, I don't even think so "pros" play him that well. He is by far my most winingest hero.
I love playing Deryl on T1 throughout. It's probably not optimal, but I've still managed to win a few times and it's just fun when you get to crush your opponent's T6 minions with ultra-buffed Righteous Protectors and Selfless Heroes ;)
Deryl definitely took a big hit with the recent overhaul. The dragon package is absolutely useless, the +3 attack one is the only decent pick. The inflation of units made it harder to get mechs which is what he rly wants. Too bad. Was my favorite.
Still find Deryl fine, honestly. Took a hit with the lack of 3/4 DS taunt guys, but a huge overkill->damage dragon can do solid work, as can the usual suspects like cleaves and a bunch of divine shields (reborn dragon is still decent - ignore the reborn and it's a big DS anyway), the grow on DS popping dragon, and similar. I feel he's also hurt by the format moving to 'everyone is alive by TT5', because he's strongest midgame, but he's certainly still one of the better heroes.
Went from 8800 down to 6k since the patch on my legacy account with the battle pass, on my F2P account I’ve gone from 7k to 9k. I’ve created another F2P account to see if the rng is better there too,
Went from 8800 down to 6k since the patch on my legacy account with the battle pass, on my F2P account I’ve gone from 7k to 9k. I’ve created another F2P account to see if the rng is better there too,
Cool story bro. I started tilting too, then went back to basics and immediately started climbing again.
To win? Maybe. The extra tribe makes it slightly tougher to hit your synergies. But the game feels as consistent to me as it's ever been for going top 4. I had a dark period in one of the last couple of patches where I felt like I just had no chance to avoid 7th or 8th far too often. Lately I feel like I have a shot at top four every time, and my bad finishes can usually be traced back to misplays.
adding more minions and more tribes increases importance of highroll. in order to decrease highroll importance they should increase number of minions by one in tavern or decrease the number of minions.
adding more minions and more tribes increases importance of highroll. in order to decrease highroll importance they should increase number of minions by one in tavern or decrease the number of minions.
More minions means minion management skills are more needed. You can't just win by lucking into a build. You have to tempo as best you can and min max your build, plus go for triples, know when to stay low or power level. Wait for a tripple until the next level etc, I would say doing well now actually requires a larger skill set then before, not a smaller one. It's no longer just about looking for that build that will save you. I often go top 4 with no build at all, but for those focused on special save me builds and not the 20 other variables that they could be focusing on to win I guess it would look more "RNGy" because they're not actually focusing on what it takes to win.
Don't worry, most of us understand that BG is just an RNG fiesta. Pay no attention to the "pros" thinking it's skill to roll the right minions in the tavern.
Don't worry, most of us understand that BG is just an RNG fiesta. Pay no attention to the "pros" thinking it's skill to roll the right minions in the tavern.
keep telling yourself that and never get better
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I mean, they always were a little highrolly, but right now it seems there are 5 or 6 minions in the pool that you need to roll before it's too late or you will place in the bottom 4.
I'm talking about the new tier 6 minions specifically (that carry you much more then the old tier 6 minions, except for mama bear perhaps), and mama bear / Goldrinn at 5 are another example of "must roll or lose".
What I'm saying basicly is that unless you roll Brann, Baron or most of the new tier 6 minions your chances for top 4 get very slim.
Are there any strategies that i'm not aware of that don't include these minions (new 6s and baron/brann)? Besides double golden soul juggler. Thank you.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
Double Cobalt + refresh doesn't work for you? :)
IDK, I'm "top4" type of player - always trying to survive instead of winning whole thing, also my late game decision sux :)
(Cobalts & Jugglers do this - 60% of the time, it works every time)
But I would recommend exclusive heroes like Deryl, Millhause or Deathwing... they have also key cards but their playstyle is very different and not so dependent on those cards you mentioned. I love TT3 Deryl or even TT4 Deryl, too bad they removed all cheap divine shield minions and Righteous Protector isn't enough, DS Deryl was my top strat :/
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-game-modes/battlegrounds/239285-divine-shield-deryl-bg-fun-remaining
Cleave specialists are also fun - Edvin, Putricide... going for that big Hydra is always challenge
Mimsy Were The Borogoves
That is a good point, I never played Putricide in example, but the new target ability might be useful.
Daryl is my hero with most 1st places, i pick it every chance i can.
Double Cobalt with resets, i played it up to double 30+ attack golden cobalts, golden eggs, rivendare etc, it still loses to dragons with nadina in my experience, but maybe I didn't build it properly. Well in my experience everything loses to dragons at a certain point :D
I used to rank up before patch, but now i can't get top 4 anymore. Maybe I should take a few days off, or I don't understand the game anymore. It just seems much more luck based to me, compared to before. Honestly i moved out of standard constructed because I hated hoping "for that card", now I'm getting the same feeling and not liking it.
I also still can't make peace with 5 gold turn, getting a token turn 1 has become too important for tempo imo.
I will give a chance to the revamped heroes though, but my favorites will always be rafaam and the new ysera. I used to be around rank 7k before patch and climbing, now 6.2k and losing, if that can help somehow.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
I don't know which new T6 minions you are talking about. Kalecgos is really the only new build enabler, comparable to Mama Bear, but he needs quite some time to get off the ground. Nedina and Makarel and maybe Imp Mama can be very good, but they are only worthwhile if you already have a build that fits them.
Anyways, if you can't get to top4 without Brann, Baron, or Kalecgos, you are doing something wrong. Of course you'll need good minions to stand a chance, but there are other options as well.
Cobalt Guardian can be strong enough to get you to top 4 almost by himself, if you you get some decent support for him. Lightfang Enforcer is a great alternative for Brann in a Menagerie build, arguably better even. Annihilan Battlemaster is of course much better with Brann, but even without, it can contribute a lot to stabilize in that phase where you try to upgrade your board on 5. A decent dragon build with Waxrider can carry you through the midgame, and Razorgore is a great card to find, if you've been using some dragons. And while it's certainly not as good (or as consistent) anymore as it used to be, Wrath Weavers and Floating Watchers are still pretty strong, if you make it to 4 with enough health.
Some heroes are also quite capable to go without one of those minions. Edwin and Deryl can buff the hell out of minions like Cobalt Guardian, Bronze Warden, Cave Hydra or Security Rover. Shudderwock can imitate Brann once per turn, which is sometimes good enough to get a strong build up. Akazamzarak can cheat his way into top 4 with Ice Block. Patchwerk's extra health is also quite helpful when you don't roll well right away. A.F.Kay and Infinite Toki can get this early advantage, that wins them a few rounds automatically, meaning that you have a much better chance to push other players out, while staying unharmed.
And even if you don't get any of these, you can still end up in the top4 with a strong midgame build with Pack Leader for example, that carries you through several matches, leaving you with 30+ HP while other people in your lobby get pushed out. I've had a few games, where I was on a long winstreak, then I got nothing in the lategame, but by the time I was crushed by the people who did, half the players were already dead or close to dying.
Battlegrounds can be rough when you don't roll well or keep running into people who had a lot of luck (sometimes with Zerus, which is also an option for you). It can always happen that you end up with nothing and drop out in the bottom 4, also multiple times in a row. It can always happen that someone got the nuts and hits you for 20+ damage when you just got to T4. It will happen to everyone every now and then. But it's not as one-dimensional as you make it out to be.
If you are struggling in every game, maybe you have to reconsider your own strategy. Maybe you level up too quickly, maybe you don't invest into your minions enough, maybe you don't buy enough doubles. It really is more important to get triples while you are on 3/4/5 in order to get any lategame card, than getting a specific one, simply because you can easily fall behind without this push.
Menagerie is pretty good, I've just finished the worst 3rd place menagerie build ever, but good enough, crushed by murlocs though. Unfortunately I didn't see a single Hydra, so The Beast was the beast and other subpar zoo members made it through. GG
Mimsy Were The Borogoves
You should also consider that a lot of people miss opportunities to improve their comp even by a little, and most people do triples incorrectly. Often unless really behind the best thing to do with a triple is buy the second best thing in the bar, (or even multiple things besides the triple), wait until next turn, level, then buy the triple, even occasionally if far enough ahead. . Level and buy one thing (maybe even selling something to just upgrade one unit), next turn level again, sell 1 thing to upgrade a unit, then 3rd turn from then triple, now instead of getting a 4 drop you've gotten a 5 or 6 drop, and only did 1 extra level.
And that's just 1 example of how to improve play, and like others have said you don't need one of the "main" comps to get into the top 4. I often just but best available, tweak as I go, and land top 4. It's a balancing act.
Another thing to consider that's worked for me is getting better at reading the lobby. Sometimes depending on my comp I just stay at the 3 to 4 level and it's often good. Sure there may be that 1 lucky person that lucked into an early bran or baron, so I have a chance to come in second or third instead of 1st (though I still come in 1st sometimes. )
Also seconded on Deryl, I don't even think so "pros" play him that well. He is by far my most winingest hero.
Sometimes you don’t get anything and lose, this happens. I’ve steamrolled the early game and raced to tavern 5 only to get absolutely nothing for an endgame build to settle for 4th or 5th,
play well and thoughtfully to get 4th but you’ll need rng on your side to place higher.
all the strategy in the world goes out the window if you simply don’t get offered anything by bob,
Ya think? Where have you been the past couple weeks? Battegrounds is a complete joke since the Dragon update. Utter trash format now.
I love playing Deryl on T1 throughout. It's probably not optimal, but I've still managed to win a few times and it's just fun when you get to crush your opponent's T6 minions with ultra-buffed Righteous Protectors and Selfless Heroes ;)
Deryl definitely took a big hit with the recent overhaul. The dragon package is absolutely useless, the +3 attack one is the only decent pick. The inflation of units made it harder to get mechs which is what he rly wants. Too bad. Was my favorite.
Still find Deryl fine, honestly. Took a hit with the lack of 3/4 DS taunt guys, but a huge overkill->damage dragon can do solid work, as can the usual suspects like cleaves and a bunch of divine shields (reborn dragon is still decent - ignore the reborn and it's a big DS anyway), the grow on DS popping dragon, and similar. I feel he's also hurt by the format moving to 'everyone is alive by TT5', because he's strongest midgame, but he's certainly still one of the better heroes.
Oh thats true. Ive had success with the 2/1. Forgot about him. The overkill one not so much. It's just not worthy of dancing on imo.
wow, I had one awesome Deryl's DS/Dragons run.. the comp maybe never seen before? :)
almost like old school DS dances
yea, Deryl still way ahead in my stats, btw. Nozdormu already in my top 5? I'd say my 'dark horse' in this meta
Mimsy Were The Borogoves
Went from 8800 down to 6k since the patch on my legacy account with the battle pass, on my F2P account I’ve gone from 7k to 9k. I’ve created another F2P account to see if the rng is better there too,
Cool story bro. I started tilting too, then went back to basics and immediately started climbing again.
To win? Maybe. The extra tribe makes it slightly tougher to hit your synergies. But the game feels as consistent to me as it's ever been for going top 4. I had a dark period in one of the last couple of patches where I felt like I just had no chance to avoid 7th or 8th far too often. Lately I feel like I have a shot at top four every time, and my bad finishes can usually be traced back to misplays.
adding more minions and more tribes increases importance of highroll. in order to decrease highroll importance they should increase number of minions by one in tavern or decrease the number of minions.
More minions means minion management skills are more needed. You can't just win by lucking into a build. You have to tempo as best you can and min max your build, plus go for triples, know when to stay low or power level. Wait for a tripple until the next level etc, I would say doing well now actually requires a larger skill set then before, not a smaller one. It's no longer just about looking for that build that will save you. I often go top 4 with no build at all, but for those focused on special save me builds and not the 20 other variables that they could be focusing on to win I guess it would look more "RNGy" because they're not actually focusing on what it takes to win.
Don't worry, most of us understand that BG is just an RNG fiesta. Pay no attention to the "pros" thinking it's skill to roll the right minions in the tavern.
keep telling yourself that and never get better