This is a common feeling with every auto battler when there is a major patch. Suddenly, the strategies and timings you are used to no longer work, and it is hard to unlearn habits in order to replace them with new habits better suited for the new meta.
The experience is also not the same for everyone: sometimes your existing habits actually become better with a new patch, in which case the patch feels great right from the start.
If you keep playing, you will find out whether you still enjoy the game in a week or two once you've become accustomed to the new state of things.
For me, this patch has felt great so far, but whether it has lasting value can only be found out a little later. Some other patches have felt the complete opposite at start, but sometimes they've turned out to be fun in the end.
this battleground patch sucks get lucky and get full build or be stuck with shitty mix build becouse its so insane to hit good builds now with so many new things
The amount of crybabies on this site is staggering!
Indeed. Battlegrounds are infinitely better now that there's less consistency and there's more room for improvisation and skill to show. Also dragon tribe is balanced very well imho.
Typical reaction to all Hearthstone content that is ever added: People project their own shortcomings and terrible mindset on the game as flaws.
Im having fun, love the patch. The same basic problem still exists in the mode though, imho, not enough quality end game play. Sometimes coming in 2nd-4th feels way too bad. You can get to a great warband and because you hit A.F. Kay on turn 3 and a few other unlucky rolls that just makes the game end way too quick. The changes they made to that end were wiped out by the intro of so many new minions. Best games happen when someone drops out on turn 1, there are more players around still at tavern tier 4/5 and the real fighting gets goin. I wish for 7 players and an automatic kelthuzad player or just 10 more health.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"You can't just assign random prices to junk you find in a storage locker."
By 'the past few weeks' do you mean the past 12 hours? Because that's how long the patch has been out. And if anything, Battlegrounds require MORE skill and has less RNG now. More minions make it a lot harder to get lucky, roll early goldens and assemble your desirered comp. Many of the new heroes demand careful consideration, like Reno with his once per game hero power and Malygos' switch a minion with a minion from the same tier.
It started with adding Tirion to the game. A hero that is almost automatic top 4 since you get guaranteed buffs on your easy to triple minions every turn for ONE MANA. Then they moved Watcher to 4 when IMO they shouldve left it at 3 and moved Juggler to 4. They left Cobalt alone in tier 3....like...really?? And now they have just added a new tribe with a bunch of nonsense...its just a sh!t show. They add all these new heroes yet you still get games where it offers you Sylvanas, Lich, and Ragnaros...tons of fun there...
My rating has went down from 8000 to like 7300 since the Watcher nerf. What's changed? I haven't changed. The game has changed. The game has become even more RNG luck based over skill...which is the SAME MISTAKE they have made with it in Standard/Wild.
Going down 700 against a field where half go up against you is a clear sign that you just don't understand the new meta and need to learn it.
I'd say the last 3 patches have all contributed to my overall distaste for the current state of Battlegrounds.
I'm serious when I say 90% of my games come down to lucky rolls. Either you get the dream builds or you finish in 8th because literally nothing materialized. Before I felt it was easier to constantly every turn come up with some sort of progression that kept you in the game with your eyes toward the end game. Now it just seems like its either HIT or MISS and no in between. My last 10 warbands... five 8th place, three 2nds, and 2 1sts. Where as a month ago...I'd say almost all my last 5 warbands fell somewhere from 5 to first.
And of course it's everyone on this subs reaction to just say "get good" "you suck" blah blah blah. That's no surprise, its the common reaction to every "cry baby" thread on here. But I'm sorry I disagree with the "more skill" right now. Either you get a build that works or you get nothing but crap rolls with zero synergy.
I also think they need to remove a handful of heroes from the current hero pool. I feel like that is another contributing factor. A lot of the newer heroes are completely ridiculous when compared to Sylvanas, Lich King, Ragnaros, Patches, and the other terrible ones. There are what 30+ something heroes now? It feels really really bad when you que up for a game get all excited to try out the new heroes or hope for a good hero and again...you're offered 3 trash tier heroes. They need to cut bait on some of them or buff the older ones or something.
Something has to give. Just not having a good time lately. *shrugs*
I agree. This patch has ruined my desire to play. It seems to be "high roll or perish" ... before this patch, 4 or 5 people got lucky good builds. Now, 1 or 2 people do. Everyone else just plays whatever is good enough until they are hit for 25 out of nowhere and then start over, hoping to get lucky. The skill level, which was already low, has been lowered dramatically.
Objectively, it's clear that the skill requirement in battlegrounds is high, otherwise players would not be able to consistently hit and maintain top ratings. If you feel like you are at a point where games are determined purely by luck, that probably means that everyone you are playing against is at or above your skill level so your skill isn't giving you any advantage, which only leaves luck to decide games. You can try to focus on finding what you are missing and getting better, or you can just enjoy where you are, both are fine options. But I can assure you that it is very much possible to get better by improving your skills, the people at the top of the leaderboards aren't just getting lucky every game.
To show what I mean I added SS-s for my lasst 2 games. I had a Rafaam against Murlocs and had to adapt to a Cleave and after that had DW and the last 5 turns had to go with Deathrattle mech synergy for Murlocs to remove DS-s from the opponent with summons.
The mode is generally harder for the average player ATM, but I have success like 90% Top 4 and 50% Top 3 my last 25 games. It's way better and RNG is not such a factor as you have like 1001 more modes and Menagerie is easier than ever.
Indeed. Battlegrounds are infinitely better now that there's less consistency and there's more room for improvisation and skill to show. Also dragon tribe is balanced very well imho.
To show what I mean I added SS-s for my lasst 2 games. I had a Rafaam against Murlocs and had to adapt to a Cleave and after that had DW and the last 5 turns had to go with Deathrattle mech synergy for Murlocs to remove DS-s from the opponent with summons.
The mode is generally harder for the average player ATM, but I have success like 90% Top 4 and 50% Top 3 my last 25 games. It's way better and RNG is not such a factor as you have like 1001 more modes and Menagerie is easier than ever.
You often take screenshots from two different devices when you are taking screenshots of your “last two games”
Main "ruined" thing, for me, is that you can much easier go from second to out at 7th in one hit, because people are lasting much longer. It's now rare to have anyone die before most people are TT5, in my experience, unless they're going for a rush strategy, which is... very high risk. Had a good few top three->bottom three in one hit lately, which are tilting as flip.
Well, that and -100 rating per try for any new strategies that fail hard, but that's always a thing with changes.
* Deathwing is a tad too strong (incidentally, just *lost* my first game as Deathwing - and it happened to be against someone else that went to 6 almost as fast as me, got a build that was near-identical to mine, and sniped key cards in each of our last 3 games (while I got no snipes of note) to take me from 38 to 0). But it basically took someone playing a Deathwing build to beat Deathwing. XD * Malygos is trash. Some of the other heroes are a bit slower than the meta really allows for them to shine in without some luck (Reno and Alex come to mind) - but if they roll a good build through the early game, they can ride until tier 5 which is where both of them can show off. Malygos though? You're rolling the dice, and usually you're not going to get anything amazing. Have played him twice now, and he may honestly be the worst hero in the battlegrounds (even compared to those that try to force you into a tribe, which is an awkward spot for most heroes given that forcing tribes doesn't work if the game doesn't give you the appropriate cards). If they made it so that he transformed the card *and* returned it to your hand, that might make him a little more viable, as at least in that case you might roll a useful battlecry. Honestly, the idea itself isn't awful, but the power level of it exactly as it is right now is way too low. * Reno is fun, but generally high or low rolls. You need to get a decent enough build to last to 5, grab one of the key build around cards (I got Lightfang very early with my Reno run, already had 3/5 tribes, and pumped it up to 5/5 on the next turn, eventually running away with the game), but if you do, golden Brann/Baron/Lightfang are the stuff of nightmares. Hell, depending on the build, golden Razorgore would be really, really good (+14/+14 per turn if you have a full board of dragons). If you can somehow wait until 6 there are a few powerful options in there - notably, Kalecgos (+2/+2 to your dragons if you play a battlecry card). Just a fun, high roll card. Because it's typically so slow, I don't know where it will ultimately end up in the tiers, but the high roll potential is just great. * Cobalt is still annoying as hell, and the new 6 star murloc just creates more synergy (you give up a refresh slot for the Cobalts, for a murloc - that can get poisonous - that itself refreshes off of the Cobalts). 4-star Cobalt would be a good change.
By 'the past few weeks' do you mean the past 12 hours? Because that's how long the patch has been out. And if anything, Battlegrounds require MORE skill and has less RNG now. More minions make it a lot harder to get lucky, roll early goldens and assemble your desirered comp. Many of the new heroes demand careful consideration, like Reno with his once per game hero power and Malygos' switch a minion with a minion from the same tier.
It started with adding Tirion to the game. A hero that is almost automatic top 4 since you get guaranteed buffs on your easy to triple minions every turn for ONE MANA. Then they moved Watcher to 4 when IMO they shouldve left it at 3 and moved Juggler to 4. They left Cobalt alone in tier 3....like...really?? And now they have just added a new tribe with a bunch of nonsense...its just a sh!t show. They add all these new heroes yet you still get games where it offers you Sylvanas, Lich, and Ragnaros...tons of fun there...
My rating has went down from 8000 to like 7300 since the Watcher nerf. What's changed? I haven't changed. The game has changed. The game has become even more RNG luck based over skill...which is the SAME MISTAKE they have made with it in Standard/Wild.
Meanwhile, my rating has gone up. You're right, the game has changed, and you have failed to adapt. That shows a lack of skill, doesn't it?
You still haven't provided me with concrete reasons of why RNG has increased. You think balance is off, but that's not related to RNG. Logically, adding more heroes should decrease the likelihood that you'll get offered just the "bad" heroes (disagree with you on Lich btw, I always get at least top 4 with her) and so hero choice RNG matter less. Adding more minions also decrease reroll RNG. You're less likely to get offered what you're looking for, so you have to be better at working with what you've got, which demands more skill. Adding a new tribe also adds an extra layer of complexity to the game that also demands skill. RNG still exists, yes, but it hasn't increased.
IMO it's gotten a lot more fun. I had grown tired of Battlegrounds, it seemed to just be a race to get the best minions, everyone going for the same comps: murlocs, demons or mechs (or beasts if you didn't care about winning). Now I'm seeing a lot of different things.
Game is designed to drain you spiritually and emotionally. Having the worst possible rolls and the worst possible heroes offered several turns in a row just gets you down more than anything.
And yes this mode is a slot-machine. Skill difference counts for less than 10% of actual game outcomes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The amount of crybabies on this site is staggering!
Ahah, a logical post. You are not allowed here.
this battleground patch sucks get lucky and get full build or be stuck with shitty mix build becouse its so insane to hit good builds now with so many new things
Indeed. Battlegrounds are infinitely better now that there's less consistency and there's more room for improvisation and skill to show. Also dragon tribe is balanced very well imho.
Typical reaction to all Hearthstone content that is ever added: People project their own shortcomings and terrible mindset on the game as flaws.
+1 for this.
Im having fun, love the patch. The same basic problem still exists in the mode though, imho, not enough quality end game play. Sometimes coming in 2nd-4th feels way too bad. You can get to a great warband and because you hit A.F. Kay on turn 3 and a few other unlucky rolls that just makes the game end way too quick. The changes they made to that end were wiped out by the intro of so many new minions. Best games happen when someone drops out on turn 1, there are more players around still at tavern tier 4/5 and the real fighting gets goin. I wish for 7 players and an automatic kelthuzad player or just 10 more health.
"You can't just assign random prices to junk you find in a storage locker."
It's new .. ur not used to it... I find it so much fun.
Going down 700 against a field where half go up against you is a clear sign that you just don't understand the new meta and need to learn it.
I do agree that it seems less enjoyable after all the changes but then again nothing stays the same level always. Just ask needle addicts.
It's not just THIS PATCH though...
Title says "last few weeks"
I'd say the last 3 patches have all contributed to my overall distaste for the current state of Battlegrounds.
I'm serious when I say 90% of my games come down to lucky rolls. Either you get the dream builds or you finish in 8th because literally nothing materialized. Before I felt it was easier to constantly every turn come up with some sort of progression that kept you in the game with your eyes toward the end game. Now it just seems like its either HIT or MISS and no in between. My last 10 warbands... five 8th place, three 2nds, and 2 1sts. Where as a month ago...I'd say almost all my last 5 warbands fell somewhere from 5 to first.
And of course it's everyone on this subs reaction to just say "get good" "you suck" blah blah blah. That's no surprise, its the common reaction to every "cry baby" thread on here. But I'm sorry I disagree with the "more skill" right now. Either you get a build that works or you get nothing but crap rolls with zero synergy.
I also think they need to remove a handful of heroes from the current hero pool. I feel like that is another contributing factor. A lot of the newer heroes are completely ridiculous when compared to Sylvanas, Lich King, Ragnaros, Patches, and the other terrible ones. There are what 30+ something heroes now? It feels really really bad when you que up for a game get all excited to try out the new heroes or hope for a good hero and again...you're offered 3 trash tier heroes. They need to cut bait on some of them or buff the older ones or something.
Something has to give. Just not having a good time lately. *shrugs*
I agree. This patch has ruined my desire to play. It seems to be "high roll or perish" ... before this patch, 4 or 5 people got lucky good builds. Now, 1 or 2 people do. Everyone else just plays whatever is good enough until they are hit for 25 out of nowhere and then start over, hoping to get lucky. The skill level, which was already low, has been lowered dramatically.
The patch was an experiment. And it has failed.
Oh well!
Objectively, it's clear that the skill requirement in battlegrounds is high, otherwise players would not be able to consistently hit and maintain top ratings. If you feel like you are at a point where games are determined purely by luck, that probably means that everyone you are playing against is at or above your skill level so your skill isn't giving you any advantage, which only leaves luck to decide games. You can try to focus on finding what you are missing and getting better, or you can just enjoy where you are, both are fine options. But I can assure you that it is very much possible to get better by improving your skills, the people at the top of the leaderboards aren't just getting lucky every game.
Actually at the moment anyone complaining is a bad player as there is no clear strategy!
More choices equals to more thinking out of the box and better results are harder to achieve - I am up 800 rating aand nearly top 100 EU for 2 days.
To show what I mean I added SS-s for my lasst 2 games. I had a Rafaam against Murlocs and had to adapt to a Cleave and after that had DW and the last 5 turns had to go with Deathrattle mech synergy for Murlocs to remove DS-s from the opponent with summons.
The mode is generally harder for the average player ATM, but I have success like 90% Top 4 and 50% Top 3 my last 25 games. It's way better and RNG is not such a factor as you have like 1001 more modes and Menagerie is easier than ever.
RNG = Skill
Got ya.
DJ
You often take screenshots from two different devices when you are taking screenshots of your “last two games”
Main "ruined" thing, for me, is that you can much easier go from second to out at 7th in one hit, because people are lasting much longer. It's now rare to have anyone die before most people are TT5, in my experience, unless they're going for a rush strategy, which is... very high risk. Had a good few top three->bottom three in one hit lately, which are tilting as flip.
Well, that and -100 rating per try for any new strategies that fail hard, but that's always a thing with changes.
All I'll say is:
* Deathwing is a tad too strong (incidentally, just *lost* my first game as Deathwing - and it happened to be against someone else that went to 6 almost as fast as me, got a build that was near-identical to mine, and sniped key cards in each of our last 3 games (while I got no snipes of note) to take me from 38 to 0). But it basically took someone playing a Deathwing build to beat Deathwing. XD
* Malygos is trash. Some of the other heroes are a bit slower than the meta really allows for them to shine in without some luck (Reno and Alex come to mind) - but if they roll a good build through the early game, they can ride until tier 5 which is where both of them can show off. Malygos though? You're rolling the dice, and usually you're not going to get anything amazing. Have played him twice now, and he may honestly be the worst hero in the battlegrounds (even compared to those that try to force you into a tribe, which is an awkward spot for most heroes given that forcing tribes doesn't work if the game doesn't give you the appropriate cards). If they made it so that he transformed the card *and* returned it to your hand, that might make him a little more viable, as at least in that case you might roll a useful battlecry. Honestly, the idea itself isn't awful, but the power level of it exactly as it is right now is way too low.
* Reno is fun, but generally high or low rolls. You need to get a decent enough build to last to 5, grab one of the key build around cards (I got Lightfang very early with my Reno run, already had 3/5 tribes, and pumped it up to 5/5 on the next turn, eventually running away with the game), but if you do, golden Brann/Baron/Lightfang are the stuff of nightmares. Hell, depending on the build, golden Razorgore would be really, really good (+14/+14 per turn if you have a full board of dragons). If you can somehow wait until 6 there are a few powerful options in there - notably, Kalecgos (+2/+2 to your dragons if you play a battlecry card). Just a fun, high roll card. Because it's typically so slow, I don't know where it will ultimately end up in the tiers, but the high roll potential is just great.
* Cobalt is still annoying as hell, and the new 6 star murloc just creates more synergy (you give up a refresh slot for the Cobalts, for a murloc - that can get poisonous - that itself refreshes off of the Cobalts). 4-star Cobalt would be a good change.
This ^
Game is designed to drain you spiritually and emotionally. Having the worst possible rolls and the worst possible heroes offered several turns in a row just gets you down more than anything.
And yes this mode is a slot-machine. Skill difference counts for less than 10% of actual game outcomes.