Since updates my 1st place finishes are 93% demon comps. My 4th place and higher finishes are 84% demon comps. My lower than 4th finishes are 27% demon comps,
I agree that demons are a bit out of control right now. I really like the new demon additions, so perhaps Wraith Weaver could be changed to getting +1/+2 instead of +2/+2.
Unironically not enough poison minions, there's no other way to clear 80/80 demons right now since Juggler counters divine shields which was the other viable tool to handle insane sized minions.
To add I jut noticed the remainder of my 1st place wins where cobalt guardian decks, so let me add to that. Highroll demons or cobalt guardians or lose.
I agree that demons are a bit out of control right now. I really like the new demon additions, so perhaps Wraith Weaver could be changed to getting +1/+2 instead of +2/+2.
Beasts could probably use some kind of buff.
I think Floating Watcher is the bigger problem. Before Watcher was added, demons were not good, and had little hope to win games. Wrath Weaver was always around, but for the most time not really worth it. It could get big fast, but you still had to sacrifice health and put everything into one minion that couldn't get buffed otherwise. Nightmare Amalgam was usually just way better. Before Watcher, demons were buffed with Void Lord getting changed from 6 stars down to 5, and a bit later, Siege Breaker was added. Neither of those changes helped the tribe much.
But with Floating Watcher, the incentive is way too high to buy Weaver as soon as you can, roll for a Watcher, and gain +4/+4 with every single demon you play. As soon as tier 3, you can turn any of the 8 purchasable demons, represented on every tier except 6, into a Menagerie Magician, a situational 4 star minion. And that's before you get another Watcher or a triple Weaver, getting +6+6 or even better (comparable to old Lightfang Enforcer). And you can get demons like Nathrezim Overseer, giving your Watcher another +2/+2, or you can get demons with taunt.
It's just gravy, that you can also go all in on demons, buy Soul Juggler, and turn all your demons, even tokens, into slightly weaker (upgraded) Kaboom Bots.
The only other 3 star minion with a potential like to Floating Watcher is Cobalt Guardian, and there's nothing stopping you from playing the 2 together, since Weaver and Watcher are just 2 minions that need one open slot to play more demons (and Health, of course). And with so many demons around, it's not even that risky to buy a Wrath Weaver right away. Sure enough, you can lose hard if you go demons and simply don't get anything for them (which happens to me almost every time), and since health is your resource, you might end up in a terrible position if you lost too many of your early matches, but compared to how long you need to hold out just to get anything remotely as good for murlocs or beasts, it's a joke.
I guess you could nerf Wrath Weaver a little bit, but Floating Watcher needs to be raised to 4 stars, and Cobalt Guardian right along with it. They are as good on 3 as Amalgam was on 2. Not entirely on the same level, since Amalgam was just an auto-pick for everyone, but they are way too strong for being avialable so early. And I'm honestly a bit shocked that this hasn't been done in the last update already.
In my last BG, I wanted to try out Tirion as he was just added, and after losing against 4 different opponents with demons and dying on turn 6 or 7, I just had enough of Battlegrounds for the time being. I got a bit unlucky, and I played Tirion wrong, but it's super annoying to get knocked out so early by players who rolled into demons, regardless of what hero they play.
The other problem is there are just too many demons. In most tribes if everyone goes that tribe, then everyone loses. But there are so many demons that you can have the entire battleground go demons and it still works for most, if not all, of them.
The other problem is there are just too many demons. In most tribes if everyone goes that tribe, then everyone loses. But there are so many demons that you can have the entire battleground go demons and it still works for most, if not all, of them.
Demons (13) have fewer cards than both Beasts (17) and Mechs (22), not including menagerie cards. The problem isn't the number of the demons, it's that the demon synergy is too strong.
The other problem is there are just too many demons. In most tribes if everyone goes that tribe, then everyone loses. But there are so many demons that you can have the entire battleground go demons and it still works for most, if not all, of them.
Demons (13) have fewer cards than both Beasts (17) and Mechs (22), not including menagerie cards. The problem isn't the number of the demons, it's that the demon synergy is too strong.
Fewer demons - but more relevant and useful ones;
17 beasts but.... Stray cat doesn't last long if it's even picked up, the corrupt wolf is just a weaker, yet more expensive, rat pack
With Mechs 2 are magnetic (and unlike with beasts the minions summoned off deathrattle doesn't get stronger with the mech when you upgrade it) and there's really only about 5 playable mechs, the rest you only pick up to match the synergy and hope you can buff with the magnetics
it is not like only demons game demands too much high roll to win you cannot possibly build around a strategy you need definitive cards to win which you might never get during game.
Beast are chained to their deathrattle-token playstyle and there is almost no flexibility in how you build them. If they don't get early Pack leader or it gets sniped in combat before rat pack dies match is pretty much lost. They just need so many key cards it's impossible to have 2 beast players in game at once.
They also have no native taunt so they have to use neutral or mech ones. Using Houndmaster to put up a taunt is also lacking because they want token-spawning beasts to die later when there's space on board, not taunt them up.
The transition to uber-demon composition happens just too fast is really the issue. Your ending composition is basically decided by Tier 3, where as EVERY other comp HAS to level to at least Tier 5 to even be relevant end-game. That is basically around ~16 or so gold that any other comp has to spend leveling, while it's 16 gold to search and buy demons...
Can't wait until they finally add Dragons into the game! We need a change.
I agree that demons are a bit out of control right now. I really like the new demon additions, so perhaps Wraith Weaver could be changed to getting +1/+2 instead of +2/+2.
Beasts could probably use some kind of buff.
Honestly, I don't think it'd matter. Once minions get to the size of late-game demons, another 10 or 15 on the stats probably doesn't make a difference.
Unironically not enough poison minions, there's no other way to clear 80/80 demons right now since Juggler counters divine shields which was the other viable tool to handle insane sized minions.
I just finished second to a guy with two wrath weavers at over 100/100, and a couple of watchers, one was even bigger. Posion is the only coutner to that shit, literally nothing else will work, mechs, beasts, tirion neutrals, danced daryl minions, vancleefed cleaves....nothing, literally nothing except posion divine murlocs would work against it.
This is not fun. At all. Especially when you add in the fact that you need to be tier 5 with tripples or six to set up the murlocs...this ISN'T FUCKING POSSIBLE with demon builds hitting you for 20 fucking damage every time they win.
Its time for a change, demons have had their moment in the sun...they suck. As many have said ebfore, BGs is great but the change needs to be continual, the shake up needs to be continual...we have already had demons on top for too lnog and its getting really quite annoying.
Edit - I will add that machine-gun demons are way cooler, and much less annoying to lose to IMO - but people have worked out they just aren't as good/reliable as straight up fat stat demons, even after the buff.
Maybe adding Volcanosaur at 5 or Ornery Direhorn at 4 would be interesting, would at least give beasts some taunt options instead of fishing for houndmaster.
Since updates my 1st place finishes are 93% demon comps. My 4th place and higher finishes are 84% demon comps. My lower than 4th finishes are 27% demon comps,
Demons or bust.
Machinegun with new demos is just busted, whoever rushes to triple juggler + regular one, wins.
I agree that demons are a bit out of control right now. I really like the new demon additions, so perhaps Wraith Weaver could be changed to getting +1/+2 instead of +2/+2.
Beasts could probably use some kind of buff.
Unironically not enough poison minions, there's no other way to clear 80/80 demons right now since Juggler counters divine shields which was the other viable tool to handle insane sized minions.
Piloted Shredder, Knife Juggler, Mad Scientist, Dr. Boom
Need to be removed from this game
What about Demon busts ? Succubus was pretty hot.
I just don't play anymore until they fix something
The 1st step towards a better game is firing Mike Donais! We had enough of his "skillful" balances!
#FireMikeDonais
To add I jut noticed the remainder of my 1st place wins where cobalt guardian decks, so let me add to that. Highroll demons or cobalt guardians or lose.
I think Floating Watcher is the bigger problem. Before Watcher was added, demons were not good, and had little hope to win games. Wrath Weaver was always around, but for the most time not really worth it. It could get big fast, but you still had to sacrifice health and put everything into one minion that couldn't get buffed otherwise. Nightmare Amalgam was usually just way better. Before Watcher, demons were buffed with Void Lord getting changed from 6 stars down to 5, and a bit later, Siege Breaker was added. Neither of those changes helped the tribe much.
But with Floating Watcher, the incentive is way too high to buy Weaver as soon as you can, roll for a Watcher, and gain +4/+4 with every single demon you play. As soon as tier 3, you can turn any of the 8 purchasable demons, represented on every tier except 6, into a Menagerie Magician, a situational 4 star minion. And that's before you get another Watcher or a triple Weaver, getting +6+6 or even better (comparable to old Lightfang Enforcer). And you can get demons like Nathrezim Overseer, giving your Watcher another +2/+2, or you can get demons with taunt.
It's just gravy, that you can also go all in on demons, buy Soul Juggler, and turn all your demons, even tokens, into slightly weaker (upgraded) Kaboom Bots.
The only other 3 star minion with a potential like to Floating Watcher is Cobalt Guardian, and there's nothing stopping you from playing the 2 together, since Weaver and Watcher are just 2 minions that need one open slot to play more demons (and Health, of course). And with so many demons around, it's not even that risky to buy a Wrath Weaver right away. Sure enough, you can lose hard if you go demons and simply don't get anything for them (which happens to me almost every time), and since health is your resource, you might end up in a terrible position if you lost too many of your early matches, but compared to how long you need to hold out just to get anything remotely as good for murlocs or beasts, it's a joke.
I guess you could nerf Wrath Weaver a little bit, but Floating Watcher needs to be raised to 4 stars, and Cobalt Guardian right along with it. They are as good on 3 as Amalgam was on 2. Not entirely on the same level, since Amalgam was just an auto-pick for everyone, but they are way too strong for being avialable so early. And I'm honestly a bit shocked that this hasn't been done in the last update already.
In my last BG, I wanted to try out Tirion as he was just added, and after losing against 4 different opponents with demons and dying on turn 6 or 7, I just had enough of Battlegrounds for the time being. I got a bit unlucky, and I played Tirion wrong, but it's super annoying to get knocked out so early by players who rolled into demons, regardless of what hero they play.
I think siege breaker should go down to 3 and watcher to 4. This obviously makes more sense
The other problem is there are just too many demons. In most tribes if everyone goes that tribe, then everyone loses. But there are so many demons that you can have the entire battleground go demons and it still works for most, if not all, of them.
Why am I sticky?
Demons (13) have fewer cards than both Beasts (17) and Mechs (22), not including menagerie cards. The problem isn't the number of the demons, it's that the demon synergy is too strong.
Fewer demons - but more relevant and useful ones;
17 beasts but.... Stray cat doesn't last long if it's even picked up, the corrupt wolf is just a weaker, yet more expensive, rat pack
With Mechs 2 are magnetic (and unlike with beasts the minions summoned off deathrattle doesn't get stronger with the mech when you upgrade it) and there's really only about 5 playable mechs, the rest you only pick up to match the synergy and hope you can buff with the magnetics
-DadamE
it is not like only demons game demands too much high roll to win you cannot possibly build around a strategy you need definitive cards to win which you might never get during game.
Beast are chained to their deathrattle-token playstyle and there is almost no flexibility in how you build them. If they don't get early Pack leader or it gets sniped in combat before rat pack dies match is pretty much lost. They just need so many key cards it's impossible to have 2 beast players in game at once.
They also have no native taunt so they have to use neutral or mech ones. Using Houndmaster to put up a taunt is also lacking because they want token-spawning beasts to die later when there's space on board, not taunt them up.
Piloted Shredder, Knife Juggler, Mad Scientist, Dr. Boom
Need to be removed from this game
The transition to uber-demon composition happens just too fast is really the issue. Your ending composition is basically decided by Tier 3, where as EVERY other comp HAS to level to at least Tier 5 to even be relevant end-game. That is basically around ~16 or so gold that any other comp has to spend leveling, while it's 16 gold to search and buy demons...
Can't wait until they finally add Dragons into the game! We need a change.
Honestly, I don't think it'd matter. Once minions get to the size of late-game demons, another 10 or 15 on the stats probably doesn't make a difference.
I'd say Pit Snake, but the beast tag might be a problem. Most poisonous minions in regular Hearthstone are beasts. Patient Assassin has Stealth, which is awkward. Venomancer or Trogg Gloomeater probably have too much health. Venomizer would be a nightmare when magnetized onto a Cobalt Guardian.
Adding the token Drakeslayer might be nice.
I just finished second to a guy with two wrath weavers at over 100/100, and a couple of watchers, one was even bigger. Posion is the only coutner to that shit, literally nothing else will work, mechs, beasts, tirion neutrals, danced daryl minions, vancleefed cleaves....nothing, literally nothing except posion divine murlocs would work against it.
This is not fun. At all. Especially when you add in the fact that you need to be tier 5 with tripples or six to set up the murlocs...this ISN'T FUCKING POSSIBLE with demon builds hitting you for 20 fucking damage every time they win.
Its time for a change, demons have had their moment in the sun...they suck. As many have said ebfore, BGs is great but the change needs to be continual, the shake up needs to be continual...we have already had demons on top for too lnog and its getting really quite annoying.
Edit - I will add that machine-gun demons are way cooler, and much less annoying to lose to IMO - but people have worked out they just aren't as good/reliable as straight up fat stat demons, even after the buff.
Maybe adding Volcanosaur at 5 or Ornery Direhorn at 4 would be interesting, would at least give beasts some taunt options instead of fishing for houndmaster.
Piloted Shredder, Knife Juggler, Mad Scientist, Dr. Boom
Need to be removed from this game
taunt W/O divine shield is meaningless
The 1st step towards a better game is firing Mike Donais! We had enough of his "skillful" balances!
#FireMikeDonais
okay you nobody cares