Yeah the great thing about Hstone is that you can get your ass handed to you by a person playing a lot of basic cards. Buy all the cards you want, it doesn't "increase" your chances of winning because the basic set released to us has the tools in it to beat any existing deck currently in play.
Expert cards/Expansion cards provide different ways to win. Not necessarily "better" ways to win.
the game is not pay 2 win, people told u the definition, you decide to give it another meaning.
From now on, good morning will mean "Can I have a cheeseburger", and I will call anyone who disagree stupid, like you do ^^
Everyone can submit different defintions they can so choose while throwing money at the game to win easier, but it does not change the fact that they increased their chances by paying money to make those wins more possible.
And I never called any of the posters stupid, only responded using the phrase "feeling stupid" to mirror their passive aggression reaction they unwittingly posted to be condescending to OP wanting the thread to stay on topic.
If you want to change what each word in a phrase means and calls other stupid for not doing so, it's an uphill battle.
I know the meaning of the term. The things you can pay for in this game are not purely cosmetic or superficial to the gameplay. It's about having a much more diverse and variety of cards which is what this game is based on. A card game where you can pay money to expand your card collection and thus your deck range is in fact going to help me win. I would know because I have two different accounts, one is f2p and the other I have spent 80 bucks on. And yes it is a lot easier to win and acheieve higher ranks because it's a shortcut to the cards I need to make a more competitive deck. Most mobile games offer the same content, just no grinding involved to get there. And grinding in this game is stunted by the 1 daily quest max. Unless you are talking about Arena.
You keep on repeating the same things despite of the arguments that already have been brought up against it from multiple people here in this thread.
What you are critizising is pretty much the basic concept of every TCG that has ever been created. The fact that you need cards in order to play and a bigger card pool provides you with more and better possibilites but that is merely the premise, the framework that this game is working with. The concept of free2play lies within this framework but is completely independant.
You even keep saying it yourself, paying money offers a shortcut. It gets rid of the need to invest huge amounts of time into the game at the expense of paying money. It is the exact same content, the exact same quality of content and does not provide any form of advantage of non paying customers it just accelerates the process of building a collection of cards.
So basically if you dislike the very concept of TCGs this whole genre and Hearthstone might not be your kind of game but that does in no way mean that it is pay to win just because it offers the possibility of collecting cards.
DarkJak is correct. It is P2W. No arguments have been brought against him cept "our opinion is it isn't."
You narrowly define P2W as only games that have something that can be obtained ONLY through paying for it.
Most P2W models get money from people paying for content they can get otherwise. Time = money.
They are getting you to spend money to be better than others, faster than the people who don't spend money. Weather you are paying to get better through "exclusive" content or "faster" content that would otherwise take months to attain makes no difference to the company and makes no difference if it is P2W or not.
They care not. If they can get people to P2W for content that isn't even exclusive, then even better for the company, saves them a shitton of work. This is also why P2W almost NEVER means ONLY exclusive content. Companies love people like you to endorse their P2W model that doesn't even require them to make exclusive, it only makes it easier for them, and more profitable.
If P2W was ONLY about exclusive content, game companies would probably not even be running P2W/F2P models, it would be too expensive to create separate NEW content for both non-paying customers and paying customers. Much easier to just sell already available content. Saves tons on development costs.
You seem to think P2W can ONLY be if the content is exclusive to only paying customers. It is not.
P2W and F2P are not mutually exclusive. Both can exist in the same game.
Anything that can be bought that is not purely cosmetic IS a P2W system.
A P2W model with ONLY exclusive content doesn't even really make sense. Not hardly profitable enough to make new exclusive content all the time for paying customers and that also creates less incentive for non-paying customers to want to pay, and to feel the urge/need to pay to keep up with everyone else. The divide between the two types of customers grows greater and greater until there is no reason for non-pay to even try anymore.
By making it non-exclusive, it keeps non-payers more interested, atleast they can obtain it they think(not realizing even more new content will be out before they can obtain it so they fall further and further behind). It gives much more incentive to eventually turn those players into payers. If it was exclusive, it just drives away non-payers, which in turn drives away payers.
6 months ago, a new player with skill could easily get to Rank 10 with a Basic set control deck. Same decks only get to about Rank 16 these days. You must now PAY money just to be able to get as far as you could for free a few months ago.
The longer the game is around, the harder it is for new players, and the more money it costs just to be on an even playing field with everyone else.
This creates new content for payers to buys, and an every increasing strain on the non-payers, an urge that says, "PAY OR FALL BEHIND EVERYONE ELSE." And even if you don't pay, everytime something comes out, same feeling, only worse, "PAY OR FALL EVEN FURTHER BEHIND THAN YOU WERE LAST TIME YOU DIDN'T PAY."
It doesn't NEED to be EXCLUSIVE. Quite frankly it is more profitable, less work, and more effective for it to NOT be exclusive.
This is why they introduced the new daily Quest. They are aware the game is getting more and more P2W and harder for new players to get involved in the game.
Like all P2W games, they realize they must offer something to keep non-payers from falling too far behind or eventually they stop playing, new players stop coming to the game, and eventually it dies off.
Sure, they got a huge audience, but even they realize that it won't be forever if they make it too much of P2W and don't keep free players interested, and allow new players a chance to compete.
Where is the source of your definition for P2W?
You say P2W is any game that offers the option to buy with money what would've taken time to achieve. I say P2W is a model where you can only obtain certain in-game tools (non cosmetic) by paying money (no free option).
Yeah the great thing about Hstone is that you can get your ass handed to you by a person playing a lot of basic cards. Buy all the cards you want, it doesn't "increase" your chances of winning because the basic set released to us has the tools in it to beat any existing deck currently in play.
Expert cards/Expansion cards provide different ways to win. Not necessarily "better" ways to win.
So my comment is invalid because you have tried something and failed? Just google F2P basic to legend hearthstone. Youll see plenty of streamers who have made it there through dedication and skill.
Yeah the great thing about Hstone is that you can get your ass handed to you by a person playing a lot of basic cards. Buy all the cards you want, it doesn't "increase" your chances of winning because the basic set released to us has the tools in it to beat any existing deck currently in play.
Expert cards/Expansion cards provide different ways to win. Not necessarily "better" ways to win.
So my comment is invalid because you have tried something and failed? Just google F2P basic to legend hearthstone. Youll see plenty of streamers who have made it there through dedication and skill.
DarkJak is correct. It is P2W. No arguments have been brought against him cept "our opinion is it isn't."
I've never actually seen a wall of text with so many invalid arguments stuffed into it. It's really astonishing.
First of all and this might surprise you but your only argument for the game being P2W looks as follows: "I made up this definition in my head that deems every free2play game in existence to be P2W and because that thing in my head is an universal truth everybody else is wrong"
Your idea of free2play would exist in a world where i would be allowed to ride my Unicorn to work where i get payed to eat Oreos for an hour and then proceed to have the rest of the day off. It is completely delusional and quite frankly i think what you want is F2P to be equal to Freeware but in a world where companies develop games and companies need to earn money that won't ever exist.
The whole market of Free2play games is build around the premise that the investment of money either unlocks content you wouldn't otherwise have access to or reduces the amount of time you need to spend in order to access that content.
If you work under the premise that every form of paying money in order to save time is Pay2Win then i can't really argue with you because that very basic premise is just irrational to make and i know that you are convinced of that and i won't even try to talk you into that being wrong because i know it's pointless.
I will still artificially create an example scenario because i would be interested in hearing what someone with your mindset - that is highly different from my own - would think about that.
There are two persons in my little scenario. Timmy and Frank. Timmy has basically unlimited amounts of time at his disposal but very little access to any spare money so he can't actually spend something on the game. Frank has very little time at his disposal but basically unlimited amounts of money available.
Timmy plays Hearthstone for 8 hours per day and eventually after a few weeks is able to create a Control Warrior deck which he has always dreamed of, Timmy likes how the deck plays and that it's pretty consistently good regardless of how the meta changes. Timmy now proceeds to play that deck every day.
Frank plays Hearthstone for 1 hour per day and eventualy spends 100 bucks on card packs. He is able to create a Control Warrior deck which he has always dreamed of, Frank likes how the deck plays and that it's pretty consistently good regardless of how the meta changes. Frank now proceeds to play that deck every day.
So what are we looking at here in a vacuum? Two players did the exact same thing, both had a different way of achieving said thing but it is the exact same outcome. Both used the resources at their disposal in order to achieve a certain goal, one invested money one invested time but again they have achieved the exact same thing.
How does that assemble P2W?
So you agree, Frank pays2win. I did not make up the definition in my head, I have seen it used in a wide assortment of mobile games and a moba forum. The defintion has not evolved to be some very rare breed of game. I don't get the Unicorn to work for oreos metaphor, but I guess it would only make sense to someone who calls others delusional and assumes anyone who disagrees with him as seeing the whole world as wrong. I think your defintion of f2p equates to freemium the way you describe it.
So you agree, Frank pays2win. I did not make up the definition in my head, I have seen it used in a wide assortment of mobile games and a moba forum. The defintion has not evolved to be some very rare breed of game. I don't get the Unicorn to work for oreos metaphor, but I guess it would only make sense to someone who calls others delusional and assumes anyone who disagrees with him as seeing the whole world as wrong. I think your defintion of f2p equates to freemium the way you describe it.
Yeah you haven't made that up but primarily for the reason that it wasn't your definition i was talking about there, that whole thing was a reply to sisu :p
And no i don't agree that was the premise that the whole example was based on. I just wanted to know how someone that looks at this as P2W would argue for it, Frank just skipped playtime by paying he did not actually "win" anything one player used time as a currency the other one money but both are at the exact same spot in that example.
And unlike the other phrases that get thrown around here "freemium" actually does have a fixed definition and that does neither apply to Hearthstone nor to what i said.
You freemiumed the crap out of that post! I approve
You are sorely mistaken, I have tried running basic decks on ladder.
DJ
Everyone can submit different defintions they can so choose while throwing money at the game to win easier,
but it does not change the fact that they increased their chances by paying money to make those wins more possible.
And I never called any of the posters stupid, only responded using the phrase "feeling stupid" to mirror their
passive aggression reaction they unwittingly posted to be condescending to OP wanting the thread to stay on topic.
If you want to change what each word in a phrase means and calls other stupid for not doing so, it's an uphill battle.
DJ
Where is the source of your definition for P2W?
You say P2W is any game that offers the option to buy with money what would've taken time to achieve. I say P2W is a model where you can only obtain certain in-game tools (non cosmetic) by paying money (no free option).
So, now what?
"Put your face in the light!" - Tirion Fordring
So my comment is invalid because you have tried something and failed? Just google F2P basic to legend hearthstone. Youll see plenty of streamers who have made it there through dedication and skill.
Yeah, I know what it is. They dust every card they don't use and craft the dust toward that one deck. They are trying to replace those basic cards...
DJ
So you agree, Frank pays2win. I did not make up the definition in my head, I have seen it used in a wide assortment of mobile games and a moba forum. The defintion has not evolved to be some very rare breed of game. I don't get the Unicorn to work for oreos metaphor, but I guess it would only make sense to someone who calls others delusional and assumes anyone who disagrees with him as seeing the whole world as wrong. I think your defintion of f2p equates to freemium the way you describe it.
DJ
You freemiumed the crap out of that post! I approve