There are tons of cards that promote a cool deck to built around its abilities, but as far as there being 1 card that, on its own, is just an amazing auto-include for 95% of all decks there really isn't one.
That being said, I really think Moat Lurker is a massive game changer.
Can you explain why you think this card will be impactful? Using it on your own deathrattle minions is clunky because the best deathrattles are too expensive to play in the same turn (Cairne, Sylvanis). Using it as additional removal is expensive, particularly if you intend to silence-combo to remove the deathrattle. The most obvious I application I can think of is as a worse, slightly overcosted neutral Sap, which may be useful in some instances (arena particularly), but is very situational.
It has it's uses. Depending on how the metagame swings in future, it could be used to remove enemy minions that have beneficial deathrattles. I could see it being played in deathrattle Rogue, but it combos well in specific deck archetypes - look towards cards like Dreadsteed, Twilight Summoner, Nerubian Egg and to a lesser extent, Darkshire Librarian (risky), Unearthed Raptor, potentially Southsea Squidface.
There's value there, but it's going to need a very specific deck. The real problem with it is that it's slow.
Yeah, that all sounds nice, but not at 6 mana. I don't play Wild (although maybe I should since I'm getting a little fried by the aggro/tempo fiesta in standard), so maybe it would work in what I understand to be a slower meta there. In Standard, this will make for some nice YouTube videos when someone pulls off a fun combo and will otherwise be relegated to the scrap heap, at least for now.
Not to mention that you can use it reactive and proactive either as a ward against Flamestrike on turn 6-8 or as a way to "safekeep" a valued minion before a Twisting Nether
And I bet there are even more ways to utilize the Moat Lurker.
Sorry, took me a few minutes to compose myself after laughing uncontrollably at the inclusion of Anomalus in your list. I am not saying this is a bad card. I'm saying it is a very slow card, entirely too slow to matter in Standard.
There are some dream combos with this card; but you need to play both cards on the same turn to reliably pull them off. And by the way, even if you do pull them off, you need to reliably suicide the Moat Lurker on the next turn without it being silenced or transformed before its deathrattle can proc.
Highmane is a removal priority and cannot be played on the same turn. The odds that you can trade it to injure it, then activate Moat Lurker and resummon it are low; and by the way, all you have to show for turn 6 and turn 7 is 6 points of damage, 2x 2/2s, and a 3/3, deathrattle: summon a Highmane. All that for 13 mana while your opponent is consolidating a victory.
I'm not going to address Anomalus, but good on you for including a funny one.
Rhonin - 14 mana, 3x arcane missiles and a 3/3 sounds really, really great. Sign me up.
Tirion - maybe. But this is SO SLOW T8 + T9.
Anubarak - do you live in a world where Rogues survive to turn 10 with regularity? I do not.
Dreadsteed - this didn't work with Rivendare, which was the much better synergy. What makes you think this will work?
Cairne / Sylvanis - same priority removal target / limited ability to trade due to understatting because of powerful deathratttles issue.
Chillmaw - Actually might be the best combo if the Chillmaw deathrattle kills the Moat Lurker and resummons itself, but again, how often does Chillmaw survive the turn it is played?
Deathwing, Dragonlord - so I need to make it to T11 and have a hand full of dragons?
Silence / Shadowstep effects - yes, if you can pull these off, it's great removal on big targets. But the deathrattles still trigger on the original minions and it is an expensive two-card combo. Most classes have other answers for removal that are better than this.
This card was a cool idea. It's just entirely overcosted. If it was a 4-mana, 1/1 with the same effect and you could reliably get it off on the same turn as doing other things (most notably playing Sylv or Cairne or actually getting off a silence / return to hand), it would have a ton of potential. If we ever hit a control meta in standard (riiiiiiiiight), maybe it finds some play. If you honestly think that any tier 1 deck in standard gives a shit about this card, you haven't been playing the game lately.
You really only play games where all minions you cast live but one turn?
Of course not, but I play games in which a 6 mana card has to reliably do something useful in order to see play, and particularly in which an anti-tempo card (which this obviously is) has to have a massive effect to find a place in the game.
It's a really fun card to theorycraft, but please explain to me how you see this getting used against aggro Shaman, midrange Shaman, zoo, dragon warrior, midrange hunter, etc. Every single one of those decks is going to be setting up lethal as you're playing a two-turn combo with this card that likely won't reliably work more than 50% of the time. When you do get it off, chances are you're already ahead; and I don't get excited about "win more" cards.
Again, I don't presume to speak to the Wild meta, but Standard is astoundingly fast. The cards in this adventure look like they will push even more aggro and tempo if they do anything. These plays just feel clunky and slow and I doubt you survive to see them come to fruition in any meaningful way.
If I might get a bit nitpicky, I think we shouldn't confuse an 'underrated OP card' with a 'Dr X' card. As I see it, a Dr card is a minion (or less likely - a spell that summons minions) with the potential to be game deciding when played on curve (e.g. Tuskarr Totemic, Mysterious Challenger), while also being very strong when it is played off curve.
Usually when you want to play a Dr X card you also build your deck so as to curve out as nicely as possible into it to seal the deal (E.g. Shaman's: Dr 1 into Dr 2 into coin + Dr 3 into Dr 4).
That's why I don't think Barnes will become a Dr card - you can't really curve out into him in control decks (where he shines, possibly summoning OP deathrattle cards) and he's too inconsitent in Midrange Decks (possibly summoning vanilla 1/1s.
*The Grammar Nazi in me would also like to remind you that if an abbreviation includes both the first and last letter of the abbreviated word, as in 'Mister' ["Mr"] and 'Doctor' ["Dr"], a full stop is not used.
Barnes for sure imo. His stats are = Yeti which is the best 4th drop by stats overall, which means that his already a good card. Moreover, almost every deck can profit from him: control decks with Cairne, Sylvanas, Ragnaros, Gromm, Tirion (). Even Zoo can profit from him like Argent Squire, Wolf, Councilman, Imp Boss, Jugler, Villager. Doesnt that seems too OP? Card which suits most of the decks and can be thrown at the board early and win you the whole game? Damn yes
Barnes is a card you want design your deck around so that it's likely he pulls out something good. I can already theorize a deck that relies on legendaries like Ragnaros being pulled out early. Not saying the deck might be amazing but I could see a gambler's deck happening.
People hear have forgotten what the whole title of "dr." means. The "doctor" title never belong to cards that everyone thought were great, it belong to cards that everyone thought were going to be trashed and ended up changing the meta game to the extreme. This whole tread is just full of clueless people linking obvious cards that have already been voted good. The "doctor" cards were cards that were voted bad and ended up making everyone on this forum wrong, (which is a pretty common event.
Example:
GVG everyone rated Dr.Boom below troggzor and bam wrong.
TGT everyone said Mysterious challenger was horrible because who would put all those 1 mana secrets in your deck and bam wrong.
Naxx everyone said that sludge belcher was horrible because of the increase mana cost compared to senjin and they said the 1/2 taunt ooze was useless and bam wrong once again.
LOE hell, a massive amount of people on this forum said that a singleton deck for reno was horrible and wouldn't see play and bam extremely wrong.
WOTG everyone was saying that a 3 mana 1/5 was horrible tempo and would never work, and now this card in combo with others have made zoo the power house today.
All this thread has is people posting obvious stuff, the cards that are so obvious, the one that these forum always list or write about nearly always come out as average. There is a massive chance that the doctor hasn't been announced yet. Most of the "pro players" that people listen too have a huge incorrect rate when rating cards. Just look at Trump, whenever that fool says a card is bad, it always comes out to be the new doctor.
Basically doctor means the card that everyone doubted and no one saw coming. Not a card that everyone freaking agrees with and just instantly think its good.
I see where you're coming from, but no. To me, the "doctor" title goes to any card that's a default play at a given mana slot (and is overpowered).
You can use your titles anyway you want. The meaning of words change.
@GiantDwarf0: Reno Rogue does survive till turn 10+ (other control-oriented rogues do as well) and sometimes my win condition is Anub'arak, but Anub'arak's deathrattle is rarely worth popping as you can't use two of those anyway. It's strength is the infinite value.
@GiantDwarf0: Reno Rogue does survive till turn 10+ (other control-oriented rogues do as well) and sometimes my win condition is Anub'arak, but Anub'arak's deathrattle is rarely worth popping as you can't use two of those anyway. It's strength is the infinite value.
My comment was mostly tongue-in-cheek about the state of Rogue in standard, which is far from good enough to make Anub'arak and its deathrattle the effect that puts Moat Lurker over the top. Your comment is even more relevant though - two of them is probably too clunky to see consistent value and would be a "win more" type of condition.
I believe we will see dominant Tempo Mages (KTM + Secret followed by Medivh's Valet or the 4/7) with Arcane Giant and strong secret-based hunters, besides the obvious beast druids and controls.
Moat Lurker is very good, and near broken. You can use it to either unconditionally remove any of your opponent's minions temporarily or you can use it to trigger one of your own death rattles twice. And once you've killed your own Sylvanas, the Moat Lurker becomes a 3/3 minion with anti-taunt. So many options - expect to see it a lot.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Barnes Dr.4 in well built decks, Menagerie Warden Dr.6 for Beast Druid, which will finally become truly viable.
I think that this expansion will introduce quite a few doctors. In the neutral slots we have:
Dr. 0 - Arcane Giant, Dr. 4 - Barnes and Dr. 7 - The Curator
As for class cards we have
Dr.3 - Cloaked Huntress and Dr.6 - Menagerie Warden
If I might get a bit nitpicky, I think we shouldn't confuse an 'underrated OP card' with a 'Dr X' card. As I see it, a Dr card is a minion (or less likely - a spell that summons minions) with the potential to be game deciding when played on curve (e.g. Tuskarr Totemic, Mysterious Challenger), while also being very strong when it is played off curve.
Usually when you want to play a Dr X card you also build your deck so as to curve out as nicely as possible into it to seal the deal (E.g. Shaman's: Dr 1 into Dr 2 into coin + Dr 3 into Dr 4).
That's why I don't think Barnes will become a Dr card - you can't really curve out into him in control decks (where he shines, possibly summoning OP deathrattle cards) and he's too inconsitent in Midrange Decks (possibly summoning vanilla 1/1s.
The closest to threatening Dr X plays for me are: Turn 6 Menagerie Warden preceded by Stranglethorn Tiger or turn 3 Cloaked Huntress into a gazillion secrets.
*The Grammar Nazi in me would also like to remind you that if an abbreviation includes both the first and last letter of the abbreviated word, as in 'Mister' ["Mr"] and 'Doctor' ["Dr"], a full stop is not used.
*The tier guide will return*
Barnes for sure imo. His stats are = Yeti which is the best 4th drop by stats overall, which means that his already a good card. Moreover, almost every deck can profit from him: control decks with Cairne, Sylvanas, Ragnaros, Gromm, Tirion (). Even Zoo can profit from him like Argent Squire, Wolf, Councilman, Imp Boss, Jugler, Villager. Doesnt that seems too OP? Card which suits most of the decks and can be thrown at the board early and win you the whole game? Damn yes
Barnes is a card you want design your deck around so that it's likely he pulls out something good. I can already theorize a deck that relies on legendaries like Ragnaros being pulled out early. Not saying the deck might be amazing but I could see a gambler's deck happening.
Yogg Hunter/Druid
You'll see Stranglethorn Tiger into Menagerie Warden from druid every game and you'll die inside a little everytime it happens.
Barnes will probably see some decks built around him, but it's not flamewreathed... which holds value pretty much anywhere on the playable curve.
@GiantDwarf0: Reno Rogue does survive till turn 10+ (other control-oriented rogues do as well) and sometimes my win condition is Anub'arak, but Anub'arak's deathrattle is rarely worth popping as you can't use two of those anyway. It's strength is the infinite value.
top 3 enchented raven, hunter secret 4/2 then on paper druid portal but i think mage portal will be stronger in reality
i dont know where to rate this 1 aoe dmg shaman but it might be #1 but im really not sure where to rate it but it look really awesome too
I think Spirit Claws would qualify if it was amazing alone.
dr7 curator
I believe we will see dominant Tempo Mages (KTM + Secret followed by Medivh's Valet or the 4/7) with Arcane Giant and strong secret-based hunters, besides the obvious beast druids and controls.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Corvus oculum corvi non eruit.
Moat Lurker is very good, and near broken. You can use it to either unconditionally remove any of your opponent's minions temporarily or you can use it to trigger one of your own death rattles twice. And once you've killed your own Sylvanas, the Moat Lurker becomes a 3/3 minion with anti-taunt. So many options - expect to see it a lot.