Hearthpwn

Quote from Zukuu >>

Quote from crazymas0n >>

Zukuu is completely wrong. The most popular Reno deck (warlock) has an early game. If the Reno deck doesn't have board control it still loses after playing Reno. Reno is healthy for the game, it rewards board control plays and punishes face decks. 

 Let's compare what renolock brings to the early game table and what another mid-range warlock...

So if Reno "punishes face decks", why is it good against EVERY deck? That's exactly what I was talking about. That's the difference between a good designed card like Zombie Chow and a bad one like Reno. The latter has no real counterplay, too.

Quote from P0sterNutbag >>

Quote from Zukuu >>

Quote from crazymas0n >>

Zukuu is completely wrong. The most popular Reno deck (warlock) has an early game. If the Reno deck doesn't have board control it still loses after playing Reno. Reno is healthy for the game, it rewards board control plays and punishes face decks. 

 Let's compare what renolock brings to the early game table and what another mid-range warlock...

So if Reno "punishes face decks", why is it good against EVERY deck? That's exactly what I was talking about. That's the difference between a good designed card like Zombie Chow and a bad one like Reno. The latter has no real counterplay, too.

 Reno is sort of in a weird spot. I feel like he is really good for the meta, and encourages people to create more unique decks, which is great for people who really enjoy deck building. It also is a ridiculously good tool against face or aggro decks, which a good part of the community (myself included) seems to dislike.

However, I do agree that he's just a little too good in all situations, and has little counterplay in the majority of situations. I don't know how they'd change him to turn that down without maintaining his more desirable positive aspects.

Definitely Reno. He is a "build around" legendary, and he is a high impact card. Other legendaries see play in niche decks, they're very good but they're not key pieces...

I would personally argue for Elise Starseeker. She changed completely how control decks are built, and largely put cards like Ysera out of commission (I think Arch-Thief Rafaam would have been played if not for Elise), while putting previously unused cards like Revenge into popularity because it no longer mattered they sucked versus control.

Reno Jackson Is obviously good but I think the power of reno decks is a bit overstated 

If Reno is so OP, why does only one class use him, and not even in their most-popular deck?

Its sort of hard to say which one is better between Brann Bronzebeard and Reno Jackson.

One way of looking at it is that Brann sees play in more decks. Brann zoo, dragon decks, and most if not all viable Reno decks. He is actually a card that wins you the game in certain matchups as well, think about Brann healbot to seal out the game. I also think he will be getting much better in the future, because dragon decks will be a lot stronger in standard, and other possible good battlecries will exist to exploit him.

Reno shifted the meta when he came out. He is the cornerstone card of one viable constructed deck, Renolock. Reno mage is getting there, but isn't close to renolock. There really aren't any other reno decks that are that good. Reno decks also may be getting a lot weaker, with card quality going down, and good 1 of minions like shredder, belcher, healbot, etc going away. Reno decks may not care too much about this, but one thing that makes them viable right now I would argue is that you can still have 30 good cards in your deck. If you gotta start scraping the bottom of the barrel to fill your 30 slots, expect Reno to fade away.

With all that being said, I think its easy to say that reno jackson is the best because he is the best card in a very good deck that wouldn't exist without him, but I think brann is the best because he is a good card in many decks, is 3 mana cheaper (meaning he is more likely to see play in more games), and is also one of the best cards in reno decks.

Elise is a matchup card. Only making a monstrous difference in control v control matchups, and being a fine 4 mana 3/5 against faster decks.

Sir Finley is too unreliable to be the cornerstone of a strategy, but is still good in aggro decks that aren't hunter or warlock.

Quote from Zukuu >>

Quote from silvsilvsilv >>

 I guess you never heard the quote "restriction breeds creativity."

Not when it's flat out just a restriction and adds nothing more, at least to such a degree. It's one thing to have a "dragon theme" or "demon theme" or "flood theme" deck and build with that in mind, utilizing synergies and making a trade off for it and another to say "your deck can only have demons / dragons" etc. Reno or the effect itself isn't the problem I have with it, personally I don't mind him too much, it's just the theme he stands for that I really dislike. No card should be strong enough to say "fuck everything else" and make up for too many weaknesses, sloppy play and deck building. See Ice Block and Mysterious Challenger for a similar bad design.

Brann Bronzebeard all the way. Obviously, this is because of the card flexibility... 

Quote from Zukuu >>

Quote from Garlicnerd >>

 I couldn't disagree more. Reno Jackson requires you to think MORE in your deck building since your overall deck is less efficient the cards you DO pick become more significant. You can't just put random garbage in a Reno deck and plop in Reno and win games consistently. It doesn't work that way. If you don't have a stable early game then you don't have a stable deck and you'll lose twice as often, regardless of Reno. Reno doesn't independently win games either. You still need to push your opponent back both before and after you play the Reno of they'll just kill you.

Another great thing about Reno is that he allows cards that are almost good enough to see play. Primarily those normally pushed out by GvG and Naxx.

Probably one of the most well designed cards in the game.

 Reno is as "well designed" as Mysterious Challenger is. Think about it, they are more similar then the common average player wants to admit to.

Well designed are cards that function in specific circumstances and are versatile yet situational. Have an upside but also a downside / can be played around / answered by your opponent. That's neither the case for Reno nor for Challenger. Take a look at Nerubian Egg, the pinnacle of good design or cards like Zombie Chow. THOSE are the hallmark of "well designed". They may not have such a severe "meta defining" impact, but that's what's actually good about them. Be strong without "so OP you can build a deck around it".

Quote from Unforgiven_Joker >>

Quote from KingPecan >>

Hating Reno is childish in my opinion.

Then it's time to buy a dictionary, the mere thought is insane, so if you dislike a card you are a child and if you like a card you are an adult, what if you both like and dislike cards, do you become a teen then?

I personally like brann bronzebread, such a cool concept and cheep enough to see play and usable in combos, gotta love that brann + the mistcaller combo, so sweet. Best? I don't think so, perhaps best a some decks but i think that generally that reno would top the list of best card all around.

Reno will be my choice. I do understand Zukuu's feelings but is not like you drop Reno and you will automatically win the match. There were a few times where I healed myself with Reno and the opponent still found a way to win the match. Is just the variety of the game.

If you just play aggro of course you will hate Reno, same as other players will hate a Shaman being able to burst 32 dmg in one turn. If you hate it so much then beat them before they drop Reno or even better beat them after they drop Reno.

Quote from quizzlemanizzle >>

Reno is by FAR the best legendary from the set.

Reno Pally is pretty good, I've had some success with it. I agree with you completely though.