Control Shaman Imp Warlock Ramp Druid Freeze/Ping Mage Quest/Face Hunter
This is not only super cringe to play against but basically means that unless you play these decks, you are almost guaranteed to lose (with the rare exception)
I don't understand how difficult it is to make a game where there aren't a small group of decks/classes that just rofl-stomp every other one.
You can't use the games balance state on release to justify having over half the current classes not even viable after 8 years of development and like 13 or so expansions.
You listed six decks, while still missing a few competitive ones (naga priest, big spell mage). That's not a small number of decks to be played at the second most competitive place in ladder.
The only problem right now is that two classes (warrior and DH) are nigh unplayable, but that's not too bad.
You listed six decks, while still missing a few competitive ones (naga priest, big spell mage). That's not a small number of decks to be played at the second most competitive place in ladder.
The only problem right now is that two classes (warrior and DH) are nigh unplayable, but that's not too bad.
There’s not a problem with decks, but several cards need adjustments that are thankfully incoming. You’re right that there isn’t a small number of meta decks, but celestial alignment and vile library are thankfully getting fixed. It won’t make ramp Druid or imp warlock any less competitive, but it will help with non-games.
You can't use the games balance state on release to justify having over half the current classes not even viable after 8 years of development and like 13 or so expansions.
Release?! Try more than half of the time! Or let me correct myself. The top aggro deck is always extremely over represented in the top 5 ranks, except during KotFT where druid made up 45% of the format (data released from Iksar). People want to hit legend and they don't want to spend a week grinding if they can just pull the band aid quickly and play whatever they want. Do you really expect to have 10+ decks in d5-1 at all time? They have to release new content every 2nd month and create a significant change every time. 7 decks is really not that bad and you'll have more fun once you hit legend
I will say it and you will not like it: You will never again see more than 4-5 different decks. The game has become a game were everyone tryhards with the best decks that are everywhere in the net.
There will be 4 decks that might only have a 0,1% higher winrate and those would be the decks played the most again.
I will say it and you will not like it: You will never again see more than 4-5 different decks. The game has become a game were everyone tryhards with the best decks that are everywhere in the net.
There will be 4 decks that might only have a 0,1% higher winrate and those would be the decks played the most again.
True to a degree. But not the whole truth...
With real control being out of the meta now its definitely narrowing the field. Let's see what these warrior buffs are and if slowing lock a touch makes a difference.
Also the OP missed about a dozen decks that are consistently played above diamond 5. They only listed the highest WR decks. Imo the meta is still wide open. Lots of decks still to be discovered and buffs/nerfs incoming.
It's impossible to balance a card game to where every class is viable in a meta, there will always be power outliers and that will be the decks people play. There isn't very many cards in Standard, so the top decks you see are probably some of the best decks available in the format. In Wild on the other hand, nobody who plays this game has an ounce of creativity, so they copy what the next person is playing (much like Standard). This is why Kobold Rogue only gained popularity in the last few days while Masked Reveler has been available since expansion launch; nobody even cared to experiment with decks.
I've hit Legend in Wild with homebrew decks twice (began playing Wild 2 seasons ago), so winning with decks that not everybody and their grandfather plays is a lot more possible there. Hell, I've only fought one Warlock deck playing the same archetype as me so far and I've been running it for over a month.
Oh and also, people want to climb to Legend. You'll see meta decks in both formats 99.7% of the time on your way there. Once you hit Legend, it's a bit more relaxed in the mid-lower ranks. Go to sort-of high Legend (talking ranks 2000-ish in Standard) and you'll start seeing the same meta bullshit. I get tired of it too.
over half the current classes not even viable after 8 years of development and like 13 or so expansions.
What is that even supposed to mean? You know that there are new expansions every four months (and now mini sets in between) and only a limited number of cards are available in standard, right?
During the expansions Blizzard is adding new archetypes and support for certain types of gameplay. It's not a static game with the goal to make every class equal to all the others but to keep winrates within a certain range.
Yes, warrior is currently in the dumpster but you must have heard about Pirate and Control warrior and how they the pinnacle of the meta. Warlock is currently dominant but was trash not too long ago.
It is a constant up and down and that is the overall goal.
I can confirm this is true. Not only at those ranks though. I have been playing priest solely and always reach at least diamond 5. Now I'm stuck at platinum 5 and cannot progress the slightest.
Yet, blizzard announces 0!!!! Buffs for Priest. It's beyond rediculous. I just lost another 10 out of my last 12 games against the same decks over and over and decided to stop trying.
I won't be playing standard u till they give priest some love, which might take months...
You can't use the games balance state on release to justify having over half the current classes not even viable after 8 years of development and like 13 or so expansions.
After 8 years of development over half of classes have not been viable? Do you understand what exaggeration means? This one solitary meta not having all 10 classes represented at legend is totally fine. Keep searching for your fairy tale land where all 10 classes are exactly balanced with 50% win rates
I can confirm this is true. Not only at those ranks though. I have been playing priest solely and always reach at least diamond 5. Now I'm stuck at platinum 5 and cannot progress the slightest.
Yet, blizzard announces 0!!!! Buffs for Priest. It's beyond rediculous. I just lost another 10 out of my last 12 games against the same decks over and over and decided to stop trying.
I won't be playing standard u till they give priest some love, which might take months...
Why don't you try changing your deck? Like you realize what opponents you are facing, and you realize you are losing with priest, but you still play the same deck in the same way?
I will say it and you will not like it: You will never again see more than 4-5 different decks. The game has become a game were everyone tryhards with the best decks that are everywhere in the net.
There will be 4 decks that might only have a 0,1% higher winrate and those would be the decks played the most again.
"has become"
It was already that way in closed beta 2014 and there's nothing wrong with it. No one forces you to follow the crowd, play meme decks if you want nothing is stopping you (unless you don't want to sacrifice winrate for fun in which case you are part of the problem you denounce) but you need to accept this is a competitive online game.
You are also free to stay at silver 10 rank for more relaxed and varied opponents if that's what you seek.
Where are you guys, if we only see 5 decks in the meta, that means you fun-deck-guys don't exist to shape up the meta.
Truth is, there are a ton of people who play tier 2 or tier 3 decks, especially in Wild it's closer to 10-15 decks that you will play against at diamond rank, and more at lower and legend ranks.
Even deck builders who value fun over winrate like myself, we don't just build decks to lose, maybe there's a couple of cards you don't usually see in my decks, maybe there are archetypes I play you rarely see, but I'm not going to play trash cards and decks with no win condition just because it's more fun for you. When I build a trash deck with 20% winrate I stop playing the deck, doesn't matter how fun it is in theory, I'm a mere human, if I don't win it's not fun.
Ladder matches itself became arguably harder solely based by your ELO, seems like they refined the algorithms, and now you start out at Bronze against players your Skill level that play :insert xyz Tier 1 deck: and no Chobos around anymore, at least on EU Server.
However, the climb itself is of course still much shorter than back in the days, where it took forever to get to Rank 5 and then it was almost impossible to get from there to Legendary without an massive investment. So yea, climbing is still rather quick, but nearly every Opponent starting from Bronze all the way through is going to be a Tier 1 deck, which is ... like OP originally wanted to say, kinda annoying, even compared to the old days.
I can confirm this is true. Not only at those ranks though. I have been playing priest solely and always reach at least diamond 5. Now I'm stuck at platinum 5 and cannot progress the slightest.
Yet, blizzard announces 0!!!! Buffs for Priest. It's beyond rediculous. I just lost another 10 out of my last 12 games against the same decks over and over and decided to stop trying.
I won't be playing standard u till they give priest some love, which might take months...
i got to legend within 50 or so games using naga priest. it's a "difficult" deck to pilot (in hearthstone terms at least) and requires game knowledge, but i had an uninterrupted winning streak from rank 3 all the way to legend (10-0), whilst having still a high winrate until rank 3, as i was learning the deck.
to answer your complaint about them not buffing a certain class or them being conservative in the nerfs department - sometimes buffing other classes completely shuts down the top tier classes. for example, by buffing warrior, who has strong control and board clearing cards, imp warlock will have harder time. by buffing paladin, quest hunter might not be as represented as it is now, while buffing DH might keep druids in check. i'm just using this as an example to illustrate a point, however, if true, 2/3 of these classes get nailed by (control) priests, which will spike priests into a higher tier.
currently, the game works like this (below legend):
shamans/warlocks win vs ramp druids, druids win vs quest hunters, quest hunters win vs mages, mages win vs warlocks.
this is the biggest flaw of the current meta, since the top 3 decks (warlock, shaman and hunter) are significantly over 50% winrate, whilst the bottom 6 classes are significantly below 50%. however, that's only if you blindly follow hsreplay statistics. if that was the true representation, naga priest would not be a powerhouse it currently is (being a strong counter to imp warlock and trading evenly with hunters and mages) and played at the tournaments... the same goes for rogues, too: they're very strong in hands of a capable pilot and is definitely a class that can get legend.
Every game is the same shit
Control Shaman
Imp Warlock
Ramp Druid
Freeze/Ping Mage
Quest/Face Hunter
This is not only super cringe to play against but basically means that unless you play these decks, you are almost guaranteed to lose (with the rare exception)
I don't understand how difficult it is to make a game where there aren't a small group of decks/classes that just rofl-stomp every other one.
Fix
If you think about how the top 5 ranks were 80% face hunter back in the day, it's a massive improvement thou...
You can't use the games balance state on release to justify having over half the current classes not even viable after 8 years of development and like 13 or so expansions.
You listed six decks, while still missing a few competitive ones (naga priest, big spell mage). That's not a small number of decks to be played at the second most competitive place in ladder.
The only problem right now is that two classes (warrior and DH) are nigh unplayable, but that's not too bad.
There’s not a problem with decks, but several cards need adjustments that are thankfully incoming. You’re right that there isn’t a small number of meta decks, but celestial alignment and vile library are thankfully getting fixed. It won’t make ramp Druid or imp warlock any less competitive, but it will help with non-games.
Release?! Try more than half of the time! Or let me correct myself. The top aggro deck is always extremely over represented in the top 5 ranks, except during KotFT where druid made up 45% of the format (data released from Iksar). People want to hit legend and they don't want to spend a week grinding if they can just pull the band aid quickly and play whatever they want. Do you really expect to have 10+ decks in d5-1 at all time? They have to release new content every 2nd month and create a significant change every time. 7 decks is really not that bad and you'll have more fun once you hit legend
I will say it and you will not like it: You will never again see more than 4-5 different decks.
The game has become a game were everyone tryhards with the best decks that are everywhere in the net.
There will be 4 decks that might only have a 0,1% higher winrate and those would be the decks played the most again.
True to a degree. But not the whole truth...
With real control being out of the meta now its definitely narrowing the field. Let's see what these warrior buffs are and if slowing lock a touch makes a difference.
Also the OP missed about a dozen decks that are consistently played above diamond 5. They only listed the highest WR decks. Imo the meta is still wide open. Lots of decks still to be discovered and buffs/nerfs incoming.
It's impossible to balance a card game to where every class is viable in a meta, there will always be power outliers and that will be the decks people play. There isn't very many cards in Standard, so the top decks you see are probably some of the best decks available in the format. In Wild on the other hand, nobody who plays this game has an ounce of creativity, so they copy what the next person is playing (much like Standard). This is why Kobold Rogue only gained popularity in the last few days while Masked Reveler has been available since expansion launch; nobody even cared to experiment with decks.
I've hit Legend in Wild with homebrew decks twice (began playing Wild 2 seasons ago), so winning with decks that not everybody and their grandfather plays is a lot more possible there. Hell, I've only fought one Warlock deck playing the same archetype as me so far and I've been running it for over a month.
Oh and also, people want to climb to Legend. You'll see meta decks in both formats 99.7% of the time on your way there. Once you hit Legend, it's a bit more relaxed in the mid-lower ranks. Go to sort-of high Legend (talking ranks 2000-ish in Standard) and you'll start seeing the same meta bullshit. I get tired of it too.
Yes, that seems to be the issue. Especially with
What is that even supposed to mean? You know that there are new expansions every four months (and now mini sets in between) and only a limited number of cards are available in standard, right?
During the expansions Blizzard is adding new archetypes and support for certain types of gameplay. It's not a static game with the goal to make every class equal to all the others but to keep winrates within a certain range.
Yes, warrior is currently in the dumpster but you must have heard about Pirate and Control warrior and how they the pinnacle of the meta. Warlock is currently dominant but was trash not too long ago.
It is a constant up and down and that is the overall goal.
I can confirm this is true. Not only at those ranks though. I have been playing priest solely and always reach at least diamond 5. Now I'm stuck at platinum 5 and cannot progress the slightest.
Yet, blizzard announces 0!!!! Buffs for Priest. It's beyond rediculous. I just lost another 10 out of my last 12 games against the same decks over and over and decided to stop trying.
I won't be playing standard u till they give priest some love, which might take months...
After 8 years of development over half of classes have not been viable? Do you understand what exaggeration means? This one solitary meta not having all 10 classes represented at legend is totally fine. Keep searching for your fairy tale land where all 10 classes are exactly balanced with 50% win rates
Why don't you try changing your deck? Like you realize what opponents you are facing, and you realize you are losing with priest, but you still play the same deck in the same way?
You should have just ended it here.
"has become"
It was already that way in closed beta 2014 and there's nothing wrong with it. No one forces you to follow the crowd, play meme decks if you want nothing is stopping you (unless you don't want to sacrifice winrate for fun in which case you are part of the problem you denounce) but you need to accept this is a competitive online game.
You are also free to stay at silver 10 rank for more relaxed and varied opponents if that's what you seek.
Where are you guys, if we only see 5 decks in the meta, that means you fun-deck-guys don't exist to shape up the meta.
Truth is, there are a ton of people who play tier 2 or tier 3 decks, especially in Wild it's closer to 10-15 decks that you will play against at diamond rank, and more at lower and legend ranks.
Even deck builders who value fun over winrate like myself, we don't just build decks to lose, maybe there's a couple of cards you don't usually see in my decks, maybe there are archetypes I play you rarely see, but I'm not going to play trash cards and decks with no win condition just because it's more fun for you. When I build a trash deck with 20% winrate I stop playing the deck, doesn't matter how fun it is in theory, I'm a mere human, if I don't win it's not fun.
Not just Diamond.
Ladder matches itself became arguably harder solely based by your ELO, seems like they refined the algorithms, and now you start out at Bronze against players your Skill level that play :insert xyz Tier 1 deck: and no Chobos around anymore, at least on EU Server.
However, the climb itself is of course still much shorter than back in the days, where it took forever to get to Rank 5 and then it was almost impossible to get from there to Legendary without an massive investment. So yea, climbing is still rather quick, but nearly every Opponent starting from Bronze all the way through is going to be a Tier 1 deck, which is ... like OP originally wanted to say, kinda annoying, even compared to the old days.
I can confirm this is true. Not only at those ranks though. I have been playing priest solely and always reach at least diamond 5. Now I'm stuck at platinum 5 and cannot progress the slightest.
Yet, blizzard announces 0!!!! Buffs for Priest. It's beyond rediculous. I just lost another 10 out of my last 12 games against the same decks over and over and decided to stop trying.
I won't be playing standard u till they give priest some love, which might take months...
i got to legend within 50 or so games using naga priest. it's a "difficult" deck to pilot (in hearthstone terms at least) and requires game knowledge, but i had an uninterrupted winning streak from rank 3 all the way to legend (10-0), whilst having still a high winrate until rank 3, as i was learning the deck.
to answer your complaint about them not buffing a certain class or them being conservative in the nerfs department - sometimes buffing other classes completely shuts down the top tier classes. for example, by buffing warrior, who has strong control and board clearing cards, imp warlock will have harder time. by buffing paladin, quest hunter might not be as represented as it is now, while buffing DH might keep druids in check. i'm just using this as an example to illustrate a point, however, if true, 2/3 of these classes get nailed by (control) priests, which will spike priests into a higher tier.
currently, the game works like this (below legend):
shamans/warlocks win vs ramp druids, druids win vs quest hunters, quest hunters win vs mages, mages win vs warlocks.
this is the biggest flaw of the current meta, since the top 3 decks (warlock, shaman and hunter) are significantly over 50% winrate, whilst the bottom 6 classes are significantly below 50%. however, that's only if you blindly follow hsreplay statistics. if that was the true representation, naga priest would not be a powerhouse it currently is (being a strong counter to imp warlock and trading evenly with hunters and mages) and played at the tournaments... the same goes for rogues, too: they're very strong in hands of a capable pilot and is definitely a class that can get legend.
this expac sucks and this patch is nowhere near even half good enough
babies first introduction to tier lists