The main problem with this card, and how it makes DH otk ridiculous, is the same as most card who say "double X" : it stacks with itself, leading to crazy, out of this world number when you can on top of that duplicate it. I am not completely against otk DH, i am however against how they can get up to 8 artificers in a game, use most of them to clear any board pressure you create while still having enough of them for the combo. So two ways to go about it :
-Remove the demon tag : this would be a pretty hard nerf, as it would mean no duplication for DH, no discount. It could no longer be used to clear any board, and it would make the combo unable to kill through an armored opponent.
-Prevent it from stacking multiplicatively with itself, with a rewording that would indicate that. So a single artificier would still deal 2X damage, but 2 artificers would deal 3x instead of 4x. I would make more pieces of the combo needed the higher on health your opponent is, making pressure from the other player more relevant if they manage to make the DH burn artificers of lifesteal spells.
It's not the problem since the card itself can't go face and end the game. It just a card that empower your board removal that cost 2 mana, and hyper power your removal if you play both in 4 mana. It will never broke the game..
Of course, the culprit is the card that let you convert this damage to go face instead. We know what card it is..
The main problem with this card, and how it makes DH otk ridiculous, is the same as most card who say "double X" : it stacks with itself, leading to crazy, out of this world number when you can on top of that duplicate it. I am not completely against otk DH, i am however against how they can get up to 8 artificers in a game, use most of them to clear any board pressure you create while still having enough of them for the combo. So two ways to go about it :
-Remove the demon tag : this would be a pretty hard nerf, as it would mean no duplication for DH, no discount. It could no longer be used to clear any board, and it would make the combo unable to kill through an armored opponent.
-Prevent it from stacking multiplicatively with itself, with a rewording that would indicate that. So a single artificier would still deal 2X damage, but 2 artificers would deal 3x instead of 4x. I would make more pieces of the combo needed the higher on health your opponent is, making pressure from the other player more relevant if they manage to make the DH burn artificers of lifesteal spells.
Genuinely curious, 8? How? We're going for real creative uses of the word "up to".
It's not the problem since the card itself can't go face and end the game. It just a card that empower your board removal that cost 2 mana, and hyper power your removal if you play both in 4 mana. It will never broke the game..
Of course, the culprit is the card that let you convert this damage to go face instead. We know what card it is..
I don't think it's wholly incorrect to say that, in general, all card games find ways to break the word "double". We don't need to refer to Il'gynoth in the abstract like this is a goddamn conspiracy website (though with some of the takes, I might not be far off the mark). It was a dangerous card, they knew it when they printed it, but I don't think that fundamentally damns it.
The interaction is strong, but the real question is whether or not it's strong enough to warrant a nerf. And I don't really think it is. It's very easy to think in any game that just a raw mechanic is worth nerfing, but it has to be understood in context (See all the people complaining about Tickatus and about Priest). And the context is that otk DH is a strong but not overwhelmingly powerful and uncounterable deck. There's a fair few decks with really good match ups against it. Any priest running Mind-Render. Any Rogue doing anything. It's unique and it gives people who like hard decks an interesting math-intense and draw-intense puzzledeck to play with. I don't think that by itself needs a nerf.
The main problem with this card, and how it makes DH otk ridiculous, is the same as most card who say "double X" : it stacks with itself, leading to crazy, out of this world number when you can on top of that duplicate it. I am not completely against otk DH, i am however against how they can get up to 8 artificers in a game, use most of them to clear any board pressure you create while still having enough of them for the combo. So two ways to go about it :
-Remove the demon tag : this would be a pretty hard nerf, as it would mean no duplication for DH, no discount. It could no longer be used to clear any board, and it would make the combo unable to kill through an armored opponent.
-Prevent it from stacking multiplicatively with itself, with a rewording that would indicate that. So a single artificier would still deal 2X damage, but 2 artificers would deal 3x instead of 4x. I would make more pieces of the combo needed the higher on health your opponent is, making pressure from the other player more relevant if they manage to make the DH burn artificers of lifesteal spells.
Genuinely curious, 8? How? We're going for real creative uses of the word "up to".
It's not the problem since the card itself can't go face and end the game. It just a card that empower your board removal that cost 2 mana, and hyper power your removal if you play both in 4 mana. It will never broke the game..
Of course, the culprit is the card that let you convert this damage to go face instead. We know what card it is..
I don't think it's wholly incorrect to say that, in general, all card games find ways to break the word "double". We don't need to refer to Il'gynoth in the abstract like this is a goddamn conspiracy website (though with some of the takes, I might not be far off the mark). It was a dangerous card, they knew it when they printed it, but I don't think that fundamentally damns it.
What do you trying to say/argue with my point? The ts open the topic about how moarg become a problem, but his explanation and his solution is only to make combo dh slowing down but never addresses the usage of moarg in any other (infamous) control deck. Then the problem ts want actually address is the combo dh, not the moarg itself. The key card that makes this combo viable is ilgynoth, it is the one that limit the design of other cards. How is this so hard to understand..
The main problem with this card, and how it makes DH otk ridiculous, is the same as most card who say "double X" : it stacks with itself, leading to crazy, out of this world number when you can on top of that duplicate it. I am not completely against otk DH, i am however against how they can get up to 8 artificers in a game, use most of them to clear any board pressure you create while still having enough of them for the combo.
So two ways to go about it :
-Remove the demon tag : this would be a pretty hard nerf, as it would mean no duplication for DH, no discount. It could no longer be used to clear any board, and it would make the combo unable to kill through an armored opponent.
-Prevent it from stacking multiplicatively with itself, with a rewording that would indicate that. So a single artificier would still deal 2X damage, but 2 artificers would deal 3x instead of 4x. I would make more pieces of the combo needed the higher on health your opponent is, making pressure from the other player more relevant if they manage to make the DH burn artificers of lifesteal spells.
It's not the problem since the card itself can't go face and end the game. It just a card that empower your board removal that cost 2 mana, and hyper power your removal if you play both in 4 mana. It will never broke the game..
Of course, the culprit is the card that let you convert this damage to go face instead. We know what card it is..
Genuinely curious, 8? How? We're going for real creative uses of the word "up to".
I don't think it's wholly incorrect to say that, in general, all card games find ways to break the word "double". We don't need to refer to Il'gynoth in the abstract like this is a goddamn conspiracy website (though with some of the takes, I might not be far off the mark). It was a dangerous card, they knew it when they printed it, but I don't think that fundamentally damns it.
The interaction is strong, but the real question is whether or not it's strong enough to warrant a nerf. And I don't really think it is. It's very easy to think in any game that just a raw mechanic is worth nerfing, but it has to be understood in context (See all the people complaining about Tickatus and about Priest). And the context is that otk DH is a strong but not overwhelmingly powerful and uncounterable deck. There's a fair few decks with really good match ups against it. Any priest running Mind-Render. Any Rogue doing anything. It's unique and it gives people who like hard decks an interesting math-intense and draw-intense puzzledeck to play with. I don't think that by itself needs a nerf.
...I mean it's kind of a cheat that this interaction works this way. But I'm not sure how you fix it without fundamentally changing Mo'arg.
What do you trying to say/argue with my point? The ts open the topic about how moarg become a problem, but his explanation and his solution is only to make combo dh slowing down but never addresses the usage of moarg in any other (infamous) control deck. Then the problem ts want actually address is the combo dh, not the moarg itself. The key card that makes this combo viable is ilgynoth, it is the one that limit the design of other cards. How is this so hard to understand..