Hs is a really tempo focused game. So 2 mana is better than paying 5 mana because it allows you to play other cards in the same turn and apply preassure.
Because with ooze, you pay less of a penalty if you can't meet the condition.
A 2 mana 3/2 on T2 is still fine as a tempo play, a 5-mana 5/4 on T5 typically puts you behind. Also, getting a good weapon up EARLY (turn 3) can sometimes on its own snowball into winning the game, and Jones simply won't be able to deal with that at all.
Ooze has better stats for cost and is cheaper. HJ could be a 5-5 and be balanced, but maybe too strong at 6-5. HJ is still better in very weapon heavy metas, though.
Spending 4 mana on a 5/4 do nothing card will directly result in you losing the game becasue of the creep. it's not the same game it was. A 2 mana do nothing 3/2 is still bad but you can recover from it sometimes.
As everyone said, ooze is cheaper and has better stats for the cost
HOWEVER
Right now, ooze is kinda like a noob trap. This is because it is NOT good enough to keep in the opening hand, even against a weapon class. An on curve ooze is never gonna hit a weapon, with the current weapons being 3 cost for warrior and 5 cost for DH. If you count the galakrond claw, that's also super late in the game.
I am Legend this month with a Heal Galakrond deck. I confirm that Kobold Stickyfinger is very interesting. You can put Bomb in the Warrior deck or steal the Weapon of player playing a Galakrond deck.
In addition to the tempo consideration, I have found that fatigue can sometimes actually come into it vs Galakrond Rogue. If you play priest, for example, you end up in a value vs value game, and having to draw a couple of extra cards earlier in the game can end up killing you 20 turns later.
A lot of folks don't like the long, grindy games, but I can't get enough of them. I am very in tune with the fatigue consideration, and because a lot of games will go by between those that revolve around fatigue, many folks just don't think about it much. The fact of the matter is though, draws can be deadly in the wrong circumstances.
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Both are awesome in a heavy weapon meta and have to be used to fit the curve in your own deck, if you already have many 5 manas cards in your deck Ooze can be better, if you playng an aggro deck with plenty of others 2 manas minion HJ is better because can help giving you extra steam.
Both are awful in any other meta, with mid or low weapon usage, like now.
IMO for slower game, the critical turn is often around 5-6-7. If you are playing a 5 mana card there, there will be 2 problems. First, it is quite probable you will waste your remaining mana if any, since you have already used up your small cards at that point of time. Second, you cannot follow up in the same turn after playing that big card, which may leave your broad in a dangerous state. In this year, it is very rare you can have a clean broad for you to put him down on without taking high risk.
You want tech cards - which weapon removal clearly is - to be as cheap as possible. You could make an argument that in a weapon heavy meta you might want to switch to Harrison Jones (or even add it to your Ooze) if your deck desperately needs card draw.
Neither are very good. Acidic swamp ooze never wins games. It's only playable in heavy control decks/decks which don't play much stuff. If you have a board and your opponent plays warglaives they will usually use the weapon charges to kill that board. If you don't play any minions though since you're say highlander priest then weapon removal becomes better because there will be charges left over.
The most played decks right now are spell druid and aggro DH and weapon removal is useless vs them both (acidic swamp ooze win rate vs aggro DH is just so low you can't even keep it in the mulligan so you may as well not play it). You can't beat either deck without being super aggressive and so a 3/2 that does nothing isn't good enough to win the game and the only exception may be highlander priest. You can play it in HL hunter but frozen shadoweaver is probably better. That can also freeze a big minion which is important.
Neither are very good. Acidic swamp ooze never wins games. It's only playable in heavy control decks/decks which don't play much stuff. If you have a board and your opponent plays warglaives they will usually use the weapon charges to kill that board. If you don't play any minions though since you're say highlander priest then weapon removal becomes better because there will be charges left over.
The most played decks right now are spell druid and aggro DH and weapon removal is useless vs them both (acidic swamp ooze win rate vs aggro DH is just so low you can't even keep it in the mulligan so you may as well not play it). You can't beat either deck without being super aggressive and so a 3/2 that does nothing isn't good enough to win the game and the only exception may be highlander priest. You can play it in HL hunter but frozen shadoweaver is probably better. That can also freeze a big minion which is important.
I'm really loosing hope here, but I think you are right. Weapon removal right now won't be enough to make a difference :( Fighting against the meta is pointless anyways..
Ftfy. Tech cards get worse the more decks are viable, and you don't always draw them when you need them. They are only there to make sure no deck ever gets too dominant.
Skulking Geist and Mojomaster Zihi used to be everywhere. Even though there are plenty of decks in Wild they can still do good work against, I have not seen them in ages, as it is better to streamline your deck for your own win condition.
I prefer running Frozen Shadoweaver over any of them these days, for two reasons:
It also works against non-weapon classes (by freezing their minions).
It's great against both warrior and demon hunter. Warriors want to play Corsair Cache on 2 and weapon on 3, so if you freeze their face when they're going into their turn 3 you disrupt their gameplan. DH's best turn 5 play is either Warglaives of Azzinoth or Twin Slice + Glaivebound Adept, both disrupted by freezing their face preemptively.
Also, against weapon classes, playing shadoweaver for tempo doesn't feel as bad as playing ooze for tempo, because you're still freezing something.
That because you can use it on second turn against classes without weapons such as Druid, mage, priest. and you can use it together with many other cards at late game.
Spending 4 mana on a 5/4 do nothing card will directly result in you losing the game because of the creep. it's not the same game it was. A 2 mana do nothing 3/2 is still bad but you can recover from it sometimes.
I do it myself, I just find it hard to use Harrison Jones but I'm trying to understand why it's not working
Hs is a really tempo focused game. So 2 mana is better than paying 5 mana because it allows you to play other cards in the same turn and apply preassure.
Tempo = good
Mana cost.
Often you want to do other things than drawing cards in your turn
Greetings, traveler.
Let's make Hunter great.
Because with ooze, you pay less of a penalty if you can't meet the condition.
A 2 mana 3/2 on T2 is still fine as a tempo play, a 5-mana 5/4 on T5 typically puts you behind.
Also, getting a good weapon up EARLY (turn 3) can sometimes on its own snowball into winning the game, and Jones simply won't be able to deal with that at all.
Ooze has better stats for cost and is cheaper. HJ could be a 5-5 and be balanced, but maybe too strong at 6-5. HJ is still better in very weapon heavy metas, though.
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Spending 4 mana on a 5/4 do nothing card will directly result in you losing the game becasue of the creep. it's not the same game it was. A 2 mana do nothing 3/2 is still bad but you can recover from it sometimes.
As everyone said, ooze is cheaper and has better stats for the cost
HOWEVER
Right now, ooze is kinda like a noob trap. This is because it is NOT good enough to keep in the opening hand, even against a weapon class. An on curve ooze is never gonna hit a weapon, with the current weapons being 3 cost for warrior and 5 cost for DH. If you count the galakrond claw, that's also super late in the game.
This is why people are experimenting with Kobold Stickyfinger.
I'm not recommending that people start doing that, but be careful about teching ooze
I am Legend this month with a Heal Galakrond deck. I confirm that Kobold Stickyfinger is very interesting. You can put Bomb in the Warrior deck or steal the Weapon of player playing a Galakrond deck.
In addition to the tempo consideration, I have found that fatigue can sometimes actually come into it vs Galakrond Rogue. If you play priest, for example, you end up in a value vs value game, and having to draw a couple of extra cards earlier in the game can end up killing you 20 turns later.
A lot of folks don't like the long, grindy games, but I can't get enough of them. I am very in tune with the fatigue consideration, and because a lot of games will go by between those that revolve around fatigue, many folks just don't think about it much. The fact of the matter is though, draws can be deadly in the wrong circumstances.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Too much card generation. The extra draw is rarely worth it, imo.
Both are awesome in a heavy weapon meta and have to be used to fit the curve in your own deck, if you already have many 5 manas cards in your deck Ooze can be better, if you playng an aggro deck with plenty of others 2 manas minion HJ is better because can help giving you extra steam.
Both are awful in any other meta, with mid or low weapon usage, like now.
IMO for slower game, the critical turn is often around 5-6-7. If you are playing a 5 mana card there, there will be 2 problems. First, it is quite probable you will waste your remaining mana if any, since you have already used up your small cards at that point of time. Second, you cannot follow up in the same turn after playing that big card, which may leave your broad in a dangerous state. In this year, it is very rare you can have a clean broad for you to put him down on without taking high risk.
So you see less people use Harrison Jones
:P~~~
You want tech cards - which weapon removal clearly is - to be as cheap as possible. You could make an argument that in a weapon heavy meta you might want to switch to Harrison Jones (or even add it to your Ooze) if your deck desperately needs card draw.
Neither are very good. Acidic swamp ooze never wins games. It's only playable in heavy control decks/decks which don't play much stuff. If you have a board and your opponent plays warglaives they will usually use the weapon charges to kill that board. If you don't play any minions though since you're say highlander priest then weapon removal becomes better because there will be charges left over.
The most played decks right now are spell druid and aggro DH and weapon removal is useless vs them both (acidic swamp ooze win rate vs aggro DH is just so low you can't even keep it in the mulligan so you may as well not play it). You can't beat either deck without being super aggressive and so a 3/2 that does nothing isn't good enough to win the game and the only exception may be highlander priest. You can play it in HL hunter but frozen shadoweaver is probably better. That can also freeze a big minion which is important.
I'm really loosing hope here, but I think you are right. Weapon removal right now won't be enough to make a difference
:(
Fighting against the meta is pointless anyways..
Ftfy. Tech cards get worse the more decks are viable, and you don't always draw them when you need them. They are only there to make sure no deck ever gets too dominant.
Skulking Geist and Mojomaster Zihi used to be everywhere. Even though there are plenty of decks in Wild they can still do good work against, I have not seen them in ages, as it is better to streamline your deck for your own win condition.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I prefer running Frozen Shadoweaver over any of them these days, for two reasons:
Also, against weapon classes, playing shadoweaver for tempo doesn't feel as bad as playing ooze for tempo, because you're still freezing something.
That because you can use it on second turn against classes without weapons such as Druid, mage, priest. and you can use it together with many other cards at late game.
Important correction: Harrison Jones costs 5, not 4