What’s with the state of overload cards. Before shaman would be penalized for a great card with overload. Now the cards and mediocre compared to other class cards, you still get penalized and there’s barely any synergy with the mechanic. Could anyone see a future rework?
Basic cards are getting much weaker by time ,, having a downside in shaman's main archetype is a big issue specially as u stated , there are cards doing the same job without having a penalty.. they need to find a way to fix it alongside with paladin's basic cards.
Probably wouldn’t say shaman is fine since it’s one of the only two classes not played in good ladder. It suffers a similar issue with paladin of having dated basic cards.. there’s so many cards in shamans base that have hardly ever seen the board since day 1
Overload is still fine as a mechanic. Its just the overload cards there arent good enough. If new overload cards get stronger than other cards of the same cost it will be just fine again
Overload is overpriced. Even at the start as a class mechanic, it was always of dubious value, but these days I think it's starting to show it's age a lot more than other core mechanics.
Stormforged Axe is actually rather solid these days: being able to do 2-damage is strong in this rather-DH metagame. But on paper, it still seems a bit weak.
I'd go in one of two directions with Overload.
One way is to buff a lot of the cards. A lot of Overload 2 could become overload 1, for example. Something like Lighting Bolt could maybe become 3-4 damage, to pull in another hated Shaman mechanic. Shaman and Paladin (at least) need some Priest-like classic set revisions, and giving buffs is probably pretty easy in a lot of cases.
The other way to go would be to make it optional. Give a shaman the choice to pay the mana crystals now instead of next turn. That'd be neat, but a huge amount of work for the programmers. I think that'd add a lot of value to the mechanic, however. Late-game when you'll often have enough mana, playing an overload card like Lighting Storm seems like it often ruins your shot at having a decent next turn. Can't Storm now, and play a 9-drop like Alex next turn. The benefit of being able to cast overload stuff early is pretty mediocre in the late game, and optional overload gives you a means to avoid that drawback.
overload cards need to be way more powerful. As it is now, the mechanic is obsolete and other classes have lots of stronger effects without the mana penalty.
Anyway, i don't mind the state of shaman now since the whole game is currently broken due to DH class. They need to tone down the entire DH set. Then we can talk about other classes.
Overload is still fine as a mechanic. Its just the overload cards there arent good enough. If new overload cards get stronger than other cards of the same cost it will be just fine again
Hitting yourself with a Mana Burn is never a fine mechanic. Quick reminder: Overload is really a timing mechanic that allows you to play a typically balanced card sooner, so stronger Overload cards create a power creep (OP) ripe for ban hammers.
Of course it is. The cards you play just have to be strong enough to compensate for you having a bad next turn. The overload cards we have at the moment are not.
Overload is a timing mechanic and gives a diffrent layer in the game. Can I afford to play this card and have less mana next turn?
Its more difficult to make a good enough overload card, without it being OP, than other cards, but that is not a "problem" if the devs would put in the time to make better card design
Mana burn is unique, and given to the passive-aggressive hero.... anyway, outside the expansions' overload (OL) cards
Lightning bolt is OK - priest's spells don't hit head. It's a basic card, not an epic.
Lightning storm - I think it needs to be decided as either -- 3 cost, 2 dmg to enemy minions, OL 1 or 4 cost, 3 dmg all enemies, OL 2. The current is dumb.
Feral taunters would be ok with OL 1, and 7/8 taunter with OL 2. I'd remove them both for a 3-cost, 3/6 taunt, OL 1. It's bout time shaman has a fitting taunter. I don't dislike the 7/8er, but if it's not buffed to OL 2, or able to summon otherwise, it'd remain rather ludicrous to play straight up.
Doomhammer and axe are good as are, I think they're actually the only well-balanced ones.
'Basic cards become weaker in time'... and shadowstep keeps laughing in our faces.
Overload supposed to be a punishment turning it into a reward is not really good idea it limits the design space they can create good battlecry cards with overload since the shudderwock rotated.
The problem with team 5 is they tend to limiting their own design space with busted cards
90% of shaman class cards are pure shit even in new expansions. That's why shaman sucks, not because of only overload (but this penalty should be reduced indeed in cards like Lightning Storm)
They way you can tell if a class's evergreen set is terrible is whether or not that class has historically reasonable representation across all metagames.
Rogue, Mage, Druid, Warrior, Warlock and Hunter are usually around in some form. Sometimes they're unplayable, but they often have at least a T2 or T3 deck.
Priest, Shaman, and Paladin are very highly boom/bust because they depend so heavily on broken cards & synergies from expacs to cover the weaknesses in their evergreen set.
I also think the fact that the vision for these classes is unclear plays a large role in why they suck. Because their evergreen sets are trying to do multiple things, their expacs are often all over the place.
They fixed this in priest, bringing a lot of it's evergreen cards to a playable point and tightening the class's focus. But Shaman and Paladin are still very disparate and below the curve.
They way you can tell if a class's evergreen set is terrible is whether or not that class has historically reasonable representation across all metagames.
Rogue, Mage, Druid, Warrior, Warlock and Hunter are usually around in some form. Sometimes they're unplayable, but they often have at least a T2 or T3 deck.
Priest, Shaman, and Paladin are very highly boom/bust because they depend so heavily on broken cards & synergies from expacs to cover the weaknesses in their evergreen set.
I also think the fact that the vision for these classes is unclear plays a large role in why they suck. Because their evergreen sets are trying to do multiple things, their expacs are often all over the place.
They fixed this in priest, bringing a lot of it's evergreen cards to a playable point and tightening the class's focus. But Shaman and Paladin are still very disparate and below the curve.
This is very true, besides I don't think Warlock has as good an evergreen set. Life Tap is just that much better than the rest of the hero powers
They way you can tell if a class's evergreen set is terrible is whether or not that class has historically reasonable representation across all metagames.
Rogue, Mage, Druid, Warrior, Warlock and Hunter are usually around in some form. Sometimes they're unplayable, but they often have at least a T2 or T3 deck.
Priest, Shaman, and Paladin are very highly boom/bust because they depend so heavily on broken cards & synergies from expacs to cover the weaknesses in their evergreen set.
I also think the fact that the vision for these classes is unclear plays a large role in why they suck. Because their evergreen sets are trying to do multiple things, their expacs are often all over the place.
They fixed this in priest, bringing a lot of it's evergreen cards to a playable point and tightening the class's focus. But Shaman and Paladin are still very disparate and below the curve.
To take it a step further, I'd say look at their early game cards:
Shaman doesn't even have a 2 cost minion in basic or classic right now. Nobody in their right mind is going to play Dust Devil, and all of their 1 cost spells are reactive. Bloodlust may be one of the best finishers in the game, but it's tough to get there when you're stuck playing neutral cards for tempo early on.
They've got to give Shaman something to do before turn 3 or they're just always going to have to rely on obscure combos.
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What’s with the state of overload cards. Before shaman would be penalized for a great card with overload. Now the cards and mediocre compared to other class cards, you still get penalized and there’s barely any synergy with the mechanic. Could anyone see a future rework?
Have a board clear can (maybe) deal with 3 health minions for 3 manas was powerful before and need an extra cost of 2 manas in next turn.
The problem is classes get waaaaaaaaaaaaaay powerful minions for cheap, removals, draw reducing card costs, etc...
Shaman is fine, fair and balanced, what means he can't have a chance with broken stuff other classes have. (except maybe paladin)
DH need to be massively overnerfed to the ground to other classes and cards make sense again.
Basic cards are getting much weaker by time ,, having a downside in shaman's main archetype is a big issue specially as u stated , there are cards doing the same job without having a penalty.. they need to find a way to fix it alongside with paladin's basic cards.
Probably wouldn’t say shaman is fine since it’s one of the only two classes not played in good ladder. It suffers a similar issue with paladin of having dated basic cards.. there’s so many cards in shamans base that have hardly ever seen the board since day 1
Overload is still fine as a mechanic. Its just the overload cards there arent good enough. If new overload cards get stronger than other cards of the same cost it will be just fine again
Silver Hand Recruit
Overload is overpriced. Even at the start as a class mechanic, it was always of dubious value, but these days I think it's starting to show it's age a lot more than other core mechanics.
I'd go in one of two directions with Overload.
overload cards need to be way more powerful. As it is now, the mechanic is obsolete and other classes have lots of stronger effects without the mana penalty.
Anyway, i don't mind the state of shaman now since the whole game is currently broken due to DH class. They need to tone down the entire DH set. Then we can talk about other classes.
Of course it is. The cards you play just have to be strong enough to compensate for you having a bad next turn. The overload cards we have at the moment are not.
Overload is a timing mechanic and gives a diffrent layer in the game. Can I afford to play this card and have less mana next turn?
Its more difficult to make a good enough overload card, without it being OP, than other cards, but that is not a "problem" if the devs would put in the time to make better card design
Silver Hand Recruit
Mana burn is unique, and given to the passive-aggressive hero.... anyway, outside the expansions' overload (OL) cards
Lightning bolt is OK - priest's spells don't hit head. It's a basic card, not an epic.
Lightning storm - I think it needs to be decided as either -- 3 cost, 2 dmg to enemy minions, OL 1 or 4 cost, 3 dmg all enemies, OL 2. The current is dumb.
Feral taunters would be ok with OL 1, and 7/8 taunter with OL 2. I'd remove them both for a 3-cost, 3/6 taunt, OL 1. It's bout time shaman has a fitting taunter. I don't dislike the 7/8er, but if it's not buffed to OL 2, or able to summon otherwise, it'd remain rather ludicrous to play straight up.
Doomhammer and axe are good as are, I think they're actually the only well-balanced ones.
'Basic cards become weaker in time'... and shadowstep keeps laughing in our faces.
Overload supposed to be a punishment turning it into a reward is not really good idea it limits the design space they can create good battlecry cards with overload since the shudderwock rotated.
The problem with team 5 is they tend to limiting their own design space with busted cards
Bring back Tunnel Trogg.
90% of shaman class cards are pure shit even in new expansions. That's why shaman sucks, not because of only overload (but this penalty should be reduced indeed in cards like Lightning Storm)
They way you can tell if a class's evergreen set is terrible is whether or not that class has historically reasonable representation across all metagames.
Rogue, Mage, Druid, Warrior, Warlock and Hunter are usually around in some form. Sometimes they're unplayable, but they often have at least a T2 or T3 deck.
Priest, Shaman, and Paladin are very highly boom/bust because they depend so heavily on broken cards & synergies from expacs to cover the weaknesses in their evergreen set.
I also think the fact that the vision for these classes is unclear plays a large role in why they suck. Because their evergreen sets are trying to do multiple things, their expacs are often all over the place.
They fixed this in priest, bringing a lot of it's evergreen cards to a playable point and tightening the class's focus. But Shaman and Paladin are still very disparate and below the curve.
This is very true, besides I don't think Warlock has as good an evergreen set. Life Tap is just that much better than the rest of the hero powers
Silver Hand Recruit
That's fair. The class is hard carried by the HP.
To take it a step further, I'd say look at their early game cards:
Armorsmith, Scavenging Hyena, Sorcerer's Apprentice, Flame Imp...
Shaman doesn't even have a 2 cost minion in basic or classic right now. Nobody in their right mind is going to play Dust Devil, and all of their 1 cost spells are reactive. Bloodlust may be one of the best finishers in the game, but it's tough to get there when you're stuck playing neutral cards for tempo early on.
They've got to give Shaman something to do before turn 3 or they're just always going to have to rely on obscure combos.