I keep fighting druids that run kazakusan with barely any dragons but it's fine because they just draw their whole deck. I am worried it could be a repeat archivist elysanna especially after rotation
I do t think there will be nerfs, nor should there be. Kazakusan is a strong deck no doubt, but not without counters. Rotation is the next step and Priest and Druid will lose all the pieces that make kazakusan so strong. Lastly, it’s been two days since the expansion, let deckbuilding respond to kazakusan. Paladin has a nasty answer to all the spells, mage is durdling with Mozaki which has no early answers and warlock can burn cards from hand and aren’t doing it. I’ve already got several wins with handlock shoehorning in altar of fire and playing it as fast as possible to discard kazakusan. What should be clear though is that aggro isn’t the solution. This isn’t a deck that can be burned down before it comes online because it packs removal and reliably comes online faster than face hunter can kill.
I can't recall: is Albatross still in standard? That's another counter to Kaz. If there were other ways to shuffle a couple other non-dragons into the deck, it would at least slow it down.
Concur, though, that it's too early to demand a nerf. The meta remains in flux. Maybe something will need to be done, maybe not. I, personally, haven't played too much since the mini-set released, so don't have a dog in the fight.
I’d also like to point out that in the reveal video, Kibler said this is like a better archivist elysiana or maybe it could find a place as the only minion in a weird priest deck that uses insight to draw him. Blizz knew that he would be a consistent turn 5/6 for Priest and Druid, so this is what they designed. At the same time, I think kazakusan is more powerful than they anticipated. Even an 8/8 turn 5 is strong without the effect… it’s kind of like Flesh Giant got power creeped.
An 8-mana neutral card with a trivial condition to meet shouldn't have the kind of game-ending power Kazakusan has. I think it makes sense to have him shuffle cards into your deck instead of replacing it, that way he's still strong as a finisher but highly nerfed if rushed, which is what almost everyone is doing at the moment.
I think shuffling cards to deck instead of replacing it could be enough with combination of "If all minions in your starting deck are dragons". And about meta - I still prefer this so much more than aggro meta, where turn 5 was almost considering late game.
The point of the card was to be a powerful buildaround for dragon decks, to encourage ppl to play dragons.. boy did they fail miserably on that one.
There has to be a bigger limitation on his requirements if they dont want to change the treasures. Requiring at least one dragon to be in deck (and no other tribe) could help, anything that forces it to be played in dragon-only decks.
I am on the team that says Kazakusan needs a fix.. and so far i like these ideas best
- shuffle treasures into the deck
or
- moderate the treasure pool
This is not just a changing Kazakusan stats or mana cost fix. It could be a 1/1 that cost 10 mana and it would not change much.
people like you also think cards like mana wyrm to 2 mana or scabbs to 8 doesn't change much. Which is very poor understanding of the game. Delaying it by a turn or 2 can be crucial to beating it, as there are decks that already edge around 50% vs kazakus druid: mage and warlock. Making it come 1 or 2 turns later means they become favorable matchups. Also it becomes unplayable vs aggressive decks or midrange boards if it's a 10 mana card that does nothing.
I do t think there will be nerfs, nor should there be. Kazakusan is a strong deck no doubt, but not without counters. Rotation is the next step and Priest and Druid will lose all the pieces that make kazakusan so strong. Lastly, it’s been two days since the expansion, let deckbuilding respond to kazakusan. Paladin has a nasty answer to all the spells, mage is durdling with Mozaki which has no early answers and warlock can burn cards from hand and aren’t doing it. I’ve already got several wins with handlock shoehorning in altar of fire and playing it as fast as possible to discard kazakusan. What should be clear though is that aggro isn’t the solution. This isn’t a deck that can be burned down before it comes online because it packs removal and reliably comes online faster than face hunter can kill.
This. We haven't got this kind of Control-ish meta for a while within the Year of the Gryphon, let give it some break like literally 2 months left before rotation, and Priest/Warrior/Druid will lose all the essential tools to control the board and will be hard to reach Kazakusan. Beginning of rotation will always be swamped of Aggro decks but towards the end of the year is where Control decks can have the tools to fight again like this.
People got used to Aggro decks for all their answers, they need to learn how to leverage different decks or other strategies such as to burn opponent's deck. Stop using Aggro decks to win everything.
Also, Kazakusan is the type of minion that Control Priest deck has been asking for years. It is not even an immediate win-condition as it is slow and carries some tricky RnG for win conditions, typical Priest card.... It has been way more fit and balanced as a Priest legendary. Kazakusan is only overpower in Druid because it came to the board too fast for Ramp Druid. Stop complaining for its nerf or else, Blizz will nerf it to the ground, and Priest will lose its "more fair and less annoying" win condition once in a life time.. If anything, nerf Druid cards, not this legendary.
Some of the nerf suggestions in here is actually fine because they work for Dragon Control Priest decks, but Im just afraid Blizz will go too far with the nerf or they make it not working for Priest.
people like you also think cards like mana wyrm to 2 mana or scabbs to 8 doesn't change much. Which is very poor understanding of the game. Delaying it by a turn or 2 can be crucial to beating it, as there are decks that already edge around 50% vs kazakus druid: mage and warlock. Making it come 1 or 2 turns later means they become favorable matchups. Also it becomes unplayable vs aggressive decks or midrange boards if it's a 10 mana card that does nothing.
People like you.... Focus on the ball and don't assume too much. Not changing much is not the same as no change at all and I like the two suggestions better.
If it is changed to 10 mana druids and priests can still play it early because of druid ramp cards and Insight. It would be a difference, but not a big difference. With Mana Wyrm I agree it made a huge difference, but that is also because it was used in mage agro/burn, where you could get it huge early before your opponent could deal with it, so playing it on turn 1 instead of turn 2 mattered a lot. But it matters less, if you play Kazakusan on turn 7 instead of turn 6.
people like you also think cards like mana wyrm to 2 mana or scabbs to 8 doesn't change much. Which is very poor understanding of the game. Delaying it by a turn or 2 can be crucial to beating it, as there are decks that already edge around 50% vs kazakus druid: mage and warlock. Making it come 1 or 2 turns later means they become favorable matchups. Also it becomes unplayable vs aggressive decks or midrange boards if it's a 10 mana card that does nothing.
People like you.... Focus on the ball and don't assume too much. Not changing much is not the same as no change at all and I like the two suggestions better.
If it is changed to 10 mana druids and priests can still play it early because of druid ramp cards and Insight. It would be a difference, but not a big difference. With Mana Wyrm I agree it made a huge difference, but that is also because it was used in mage agro/burn, where you could get it huge early before your opponent could deal with it, so playing it on turn 1 instead of turn 2 mattered a lot. But it matters less, if you play Kazakusan on turn 7 instead of turn 6.
Play more kaz priest, if you play it turn 7 or on curve, you’re going to lose. You need to consistently draw, discount and play it by turn 5 or 6, all while not letting your opponent snowball. It’s fine where it is.
I do t think there will be nerfs, nor should there be. Kazakusan is a strong deck no doubt, but not without counters. Rotation is the next step and Priest and Druid will lose all the pieces that make kazakusan so strong. Lastly, it’s been two days since the expansion, let deckbuilding respond to kazakusan. Paladin has a nasty answer to all the spells, mage is durdling with Mozaki which has no early answers and warlock can burn cards from hand and aren’t doing it. I’ve already got several wins with handlock shoehorning in altar of fire and playing it as fast as possible to discard kazakusan. What should be clear though is that aggro isn’t the solution. This isn’t a deck that can be burned down before it comes online because it packs removal and reliably comes online faster than face hunter can kill.
This. We haven't got this kind of Control-ish meta for a while within the Year of the Gryphon, let give it some break like literally 2 months left before rotation, and Priest/Warrior/Druid will lose all the essential tools to control the board and will be hard to reach Kazakusan. Beginning of rotation will always be swamped of Aggro decks but towards the end of the year is where Control decks can have the tools to fight again like this.
People got used to Aggro decks for all their answers, they need to learn how to leverage different decks or other strategies such as to burn opponent's deck. Stop using Aggro decks to win everything.
Also, Kazakusan is the type of minion that Control Priest deck has been asking for years. It is not even an immediate win-condition as it is slow and carries some tricky RnG for win conditions, typical Priest card.... It has been way more fit and balanced as a Priest legendary. Kazakusan is only overpower in Druid because it came to the board too fast for Ramp Druid. Stop complaining for its nerf or else, Blizz will nerf it to the ground, and Priest will lose its "more fair and less annoying" win condition once in a life time.. If anything, nerf Druid cards, not this legendary.
Some of the nerf suggestions in here is actually fine because they work for Dragon Control Priest decks, but Im just afraid Blizz will go too far with the nerf or they make it not working for Priest.
I agree, that if it was not a druid card it would be a small problem and maybe not needing a fix.
I also react, because I don't like bringing OP cards from duels, which has stronger decks and larger life pool (after game 3 iirc). The treasures are fine in duels, but many of them are OP in standard, that is why I call for either changing which treasures can be selected, to remove the strongest ones or just spread them in your deck, to make them part of a win condition instead of the win condition.
Wildheart Guff was very strong before and with Kazakusan it is not rare, that the druid has mana to draw an extra card and play two treasures on a turn. Two months with this deck and counters to this deck being a huge % of decks played is a boring meta. I hope Kazakusan gets an adjustment... preferable to the treasures available or changing some of the treasures to a duels light version (like , Embers of Ragnaros doing 6 dmg per fireball instead of 8 etc).
people like you also think cards like mana wyrm to 2 mana or scabbs to 8 doesn't change much. Which is very poor understanding of the game. Delaying it by a turn or 2 can be crucial to beating it, as there are decks that already edge around 50% vs kazakus druid: mage and warlock. Making it come 1 or 2 turns later means they become favorable matchups. Also it becomes unplayable vs aggressive decks or midrange boards if it's a 10 mana card that does nothing.
People like you.... Focus on the ball and don't assume too much. Not changing much is not the same as no change at all and I like the two suggestions better.
If it is changed to 10 mana druids and priests can still play it early because of druid ramp cards and Insight. It would be a difference, but not a big difference. With Mana Wyrm I agree it made a huge difference, but that is also because it was used in mage agro/burn, where you could get it huge early before your opponent could deal with it, so playing it on turn 1 instead of turn 2 mattered a lot. But it matters less, if you play Kazakusan on turn 7 instead of turn 6.
Skipping one turn is fine if you're ahead, it's moderately bad if you are being slightly pressured, and often game losing if you are behind
I do t think there will be nerfs, nor should there be. Kazakusan is a strong deck no doubt, but not without counters. Rotation is the next step and Priest and Druid will lose all the pieces that make kazakusan so strong. Lastly, it’s been two days since the expansion, let deckbuilding respond to kazakusan. Paladin has a nasty answer to all the spells, mage is durdling with Mozaki which has no early answers and warlock can burn cards from hand and aren’t doing it. I’ve already got several wins with handlock shoehorning in altar of fire and playing it as fast as possible to discard kazakusan. What should be clear though is that aggro isn’t the solution. This isn’t a deck that can be burned down before it comes online because it packs removal and reliably comes online faster than face hunter can kill.
This. We haven't got this kind of Control-ish meta for a while within the Year of the Gryphon, let give it some break like literally 2 months left before rotation, and Priest/Warrior/Druid will lose all the essential tools to control the board and will be hard to reach Kazakusan. Beginning of rotation will always be swamped of Aggro decks but towards the end of the year is where Control decks can have the tools to fight again like this.
People got used to Aggro decks for all their answers, they need to learn how to leverage different decks or other strategies such as to burn opponent's deck. Stop using Aggro decks to win everything.
Also, Kazakusan is the type of minion that Control Priest deck has been asking for years. It is not even an immediate win-condition as it is slow and carries some tricky RnG for win conditions, typical Priest card.... It has been way more fit and balanced as a Priest legendary. Kazakusan is only overpower in Druid because it came to the board too fast for Ramp Druid. Stop complaining for its nerf or else, Blizz will nerf it to the ground, and Priest will lose its "more fair and less annoying" win condition once in a life time.. If anything, nerf Druid cards, not this legendary.
Some of the nerf suggestions in here is actually fine because they work for Dragon Control Priest decks, but Im just afraid Blizz will go too far with the nerf or they make it not working for Priest.
I agree, that if it was not a druid card it would be a small problem and maybe not needing a fix.
I also react, because I don't like bringing OP cards from duels, which has stronger decks and larger life pool (after game 3 iirc). The treasures are fine in duels, but many of them are OP in standard, that is why I call for either changing which treasures can be selected, to remove the strongest ones or just spread them in your deck, to make them part of a win condition instead of the win condition.
Wildheart Guff was very strong before and with Kazakusan it is not rare, that the druid has mana to draw an extra card and play two treasures on a turn. Two months with this deck and counters to this deck being a huge % of decks played is a boring meta. I hope Kazakusan gets an adjustment... preferable to the treasures available or changing some of the treasures to a duels light version (like , Embers of Ragnaros doing 6 dmg per fireball instead of 8 etc).
You are complaining about a boring meta two days after the card is released. Two days.
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I keep fighting druids that run kazakusan with barely any dragons but it's fine because they just draw their whole deck. I am worried it could be a repeat archivist elysanna especially after rotation
I'm playing the ramp druid with only dragon minions and it works really well actually, but I agree, that they could nerf Kazakusan this way.
It doesn't solve the problem, current Kazakhstan decks run only 1/3 minions and all of them dragons. Druid list for example runs kazakusan only.
My suggestion to make kazakusan more build around (few options) >
1. If you played at least 4 dragons this game...
2. If your starting deck has at least 8 dragons...
3. If your deck has only dragons and you have a dragon in hand...
4. If you have at least 2 dragons in hand...
Choose which variant you like more. I personally prefer the first one.
Nerfing the druid hero would help a lot.
The meta with kaza is ugly.
Honestly just make the treasures random without discover option, easy fix easy RNG.
I do t think there will be nerfs, nor should there be. Kazakusan is a strong deck no doubt, but not without counters. Rotation is the next step and Priest and Druid will lose all the pieces that make kazakusan so strong. Lastly, it’s been two days since the expansion, let deckbuilding respond to kazakusan. Paladin has a nasty answer to all the spells, mage is durdling with Mozaki which has no early answers and warlock can burn cards from hand and aren’t doing it. I’ve already got several wins with handlock shoehorning in altar of fire and playing it as fast as possible to discard kazakusan. What should be clear though is that aggro isn’t the solution. This isn’t a deck that can be burned down before it comes online because it packs removal and reliably comes online faster than face hunter can kill.
What this meta needs is discount for Mutanus to snipe the Kaz. That might force running more minions in the Kaz decks, maybe slowing them down.
Either way, Kaz would still be cracked post-rotation. Don't think deck building can answer this, they will have to address him.
Great idea tossing treasures from Duels into standard... Buddies next!
I can't recall: is Albatross still in standard? That's another counter to Kaz. If there were other ways to shuffle a couple other non-dragons into the deck, it would at least slow it down.
Concur, though, that it's too early to demand a nerf. The meta remains in flux. Maybe something will need to be done, maybe not. I, personally, haven't played too much since the mini-set released, so don't have a dog in the fight.
I’d also like to point out that in the reveal video, Kibler said this is like a better archivist elysiana or maybe it could find a place as the only minion in a weird priest deck that uses insight to draw him. Blizz knew that he would be a consistent turn 5/6 for Priest and Druid, so this is what they designed. At the same time, I think kazakusan is more powerful than they anticipated. Even an 8/8 turn 5 is strong without the effect… it’s kind of like Flesh Giant got power creeped.
I think the biggest problem with Kazakusan is the high variance in the power level of the treasures, with cards like LOCUUUUSTS!!!, Book of the Dead, Embers of Ragnaros, and maybe even Wax Rager being too good, and treasures like Beastly Beauty, Necrotic Poison, Vampiric Fangs, and Grimmer Patron being too bad
An 8-mana neutral card with a trivial condition to meet shouldn't have the kind of game-ending power Kazakusan has. I think it makes sense to have him shuffle cards into your deck instead of replacing it, that way he's still strong as a finisher but highly nerfed if rushed, which is what almost everyone is doing at the moment.
I think shuffling cards to deck instead of replacing it could be enough with combination of "If all minions in your starting deck are dragons". And about meta - I still prefer this so much more than aggro meta, where turn 5 was almost considering late game.
I am on the team that says Kazakusan needs a fix.. and so far i like these ideas best
- shuffle treasures into the deck
or
- moderate the treasure pool
This is not just a changing Kazakusan stats or mana cost fix. It could be a 1/1 that cost 10 mana and it would not change much.
The point of the card was to be a powerful buildaround for dragon decks, to encourage ppl to play dragons.. boy did they fail miserably on that one.
There has to be a bigger limitation on his requirements if they dont want to change the treasures. Requiring at least one dragon to be in deck (and no other tribe) could help, anything that forces it to be played in dragon-only decks.
people like you also think cards like mana wyrm to 2 mana or scabbs to 8 doesn't change much. Which is very poor understanding of the game. Delaying it by a turn or 2 can be crucial to beating it, as there are decks that already edge around 50% vs kazakus druid: mage and warlock. Making it come 1 or 2 turns later means they become favorable matchups. Also it becomes unplayable vs aggressive decks or midrange boards if it's a 10 mana card that does nothing.
This. We haven't got this kind of Control-ish meta for a while within the Year of the Gryphon, let give it some break like literally 2 months left before rotation, and Priest/Warrior/Druid will lose all the essential tools to control the board and will be hard to reach Kazakusan. Beginning of rotation will always be swamped of Aggro decks but towards the end of the year is where Control decks can have the tools to fight again like this.
People got used to Aggro decks for all their answers, they need to learn how to leverage different decks or other strategies such as to burn opponent's deck. Stop using Aggro decks to win everything.
Also, Kazakusan is the type of minion that Control Priest deck has been asking for years. It is not even an immediate win-condition as it is slow and carries some tricky RnG for win conditions, typical Priest card.... It has been way more fit and balanced as a Priest legendary. Kazakusan is only overpower in Druid because it came to the board too fast for Ramp Druid. Stop complaining for its nerf or else, Blizz will nerf it to the ground, and Priest will lose its "more fair and less annoying" win condition once in a life time.. If anything, nerf Druid cards, not this legendary.
Some of the nerf suggestions in here is actually fine because they work for Dragon Control Priest decks, but Im just afraid Blizz will go too far with the nerf or they make it not working for Priest.
People like you.... Focus on the ball and don't assume too much. Not changing much is not the same as no change at all and I like the two suggestions better.
If it is changed to 10 mana druids and priests can still play it early because of druid ramp cards and Insight. It would be a difference, but not a big difference. With Mana Wyrm I agree it made a huge difference, but that is also because it was used in mage agro/burn, where you could get it huge early before your opponent could deal with it, so playing it on turn 1 instead of turn 2 mattered a lot. But it matters less, if you play Kazakusan on turn 7 instead of turn 6.
Play more kaz priest, if you play it turn 7 or on curve, you’re going to lose. You need to consistently draw, discount and play it by turn 5 or 6, all while not letting your opponent snowball. It’s fine where it is.
I agree, that if it was not a druid card it would be a small problem and maybe not needing a fix.
I also react, because I don't like bringing OP cards from duels, which has stronger decks and larger life pool (after game 3 iirc). The treasures are fine in duels, but many of them are OP in standard, that is why I call for either changing which treasures can be selected, to remove the strongest ones or just spread them in your deck, to make them part of a win condition instead of the win condition.
Wildheart Guff was very strong before and with Kazakusan it is not rare, that the druid has mana to draw an extra card and play two treasures on a turn. Two months with this deck and counters to this deck being a huge % of decks played is a boring meta. I hope Kazakusan gets an adjustment... preferable to the treasures available or changing some of the treasures to a duels light version (like , Embers of Ragnaros doing 6 dmg per fireball instead of 8 etc).
Skipping one turn is fine if you're ahead, it's moderately bad if you are being slightly pressured, and often game losing if you are behind
You are complaining about a boring meta two days after the card is released. Two days.