Nobody said there wasn’t a counter, it just feels unhealthy for the overall experience of the game.
Well I mean, I've heard enough people on Twitter saying there's no counter which is just outright untrue, but I agree Boom feels bad to play against. I am unconvinced that he's overpowered, but I do think removing Blast Shield would make him less ominous to face. The "need" for a nerf is a matter of perception based on feelings, but it's a good enough reason. Then warrior will continue to be a great control archetype as aggro decks, infinitely worse-feeling cards like Tip the Scales, and combo priest continue to be the real winners in the early Uldum meta game.
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Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
Looking at the Meta Tier lists, I see CW in Tier 1/2 no matter how I choose the filters.
You have cool pictures, but they have no basis in reality.
Based on the whole expansion's lifetime or the most recent data? The last 7 days in HSReplay show a clear shift away from control warrior's dominance as the community inevitably found ways to beat warrior and the dreaded Dr. Boom. Seems realistic enough to me, especially given the decks I'm running into on ladder.
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Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
As has been said many, many, many times, it's not just about power level or dominating the meta. The card creates an unpleasant game experience in much the same way as Luna's Pocket Galaxy.
People want it gone because they are sick it. They are sick of playing the same exact very long game over and over again against a shockingly low-skill deck.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
As has been said many, many, many times, it's not just about power level or dominating the meta. The card creates an unpleasant game experience in much the same way as Luna's Pocket Galaxy.
People want it gone because they are sick it. They are sick of playing the same exact very long game over and over again against a shockingly low-skill deck.
Seems like people dislike control, which I understand as an aggro player and a dad: I do not have a lot of time to devote to a single match. That doesn't make the archetype a problem, it makes it inconvenient for some players (myself included). I'm all for minor changes to Boom and removing the mech tribe from Omega Dev, things like that. I'm not all for the idea that because I dislike long games and because it feels bad to lose after working for so long and so hard in a match, the deck is broken. It's not.
I can't believe people hate Dr. Boom more than turn 5 1-mana Tip-the Scales. It just seems that because people would rather the exact same short game instead of the exact same long game, control players face a community that largely dislikes them solely for playing the style they enjoy the most. If we can get turn 5 lethal with murloc pally and shaman, we can certainly get turn 20 concedes with warrior.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
As has been said many, many, many times, it's not just about power level or dominating the meta. The card creates an unpleasant game experience in much the same way as Luna's Pocket Galaxy.
People want it gone because they are sick it. They are sick of playing the same exact very long game over and over again against a shockingly low-skill deck.
Seems like people dislike control, which I understand as an aggro player and a dad: I do not have a lot of time to devote to a single match. That doesn't make the archetype a problem, it makes it inconvenient for some players (myself included). I'm all for minor changes to Boom and removing the mech tribe from Omega Dev, things like that. I'm not all for the idea that because I dislike long games and because it feels bad to lose after working for so long and so hard in a match, the deck is broken. It's not.
I can't believe people hate Dr. Boom more than turn 5 1-mana Tip-the Scales. It just seems that because people would rather the exact same short game instead of the exact same long game, control players face a community that largely dislikes them solely for playing the style they enjoy the most. If we can get turn 5 lethal with murloc pally and shaman, we can certainly get turn 20 concedes with warrior.
Please try to stay away from over sweeping generalizations.
Control Warrior beats Aggro because of its broken one drops, its broken taunt cards, its broken mid game rush minions, and its broken AOE board clears. It doesn't need its broken hero card against Aggro.
The issues with Boom is that is has eliminated all other Control decks from the Meta during both RoS and SoU, as well as surpressing most of the Quest decks.
CW win rate is affected by the popularity of Mage, which is also quite broken, and designed to beat Warrior.
When the best and most popular deck in the game is designed to beat you, and you are still T1, something is wrong.
The problem isn't the deck, it is the card itself. Control Warrior is pretty strong, but it is also by and large fair deck with a specific job to do (beat aggressive strategies). However when you run four 1-drops (two of which are probably the best 1 cost minion in the game) and your highest winratekeep is a 7 mana card, you know that card is doing a little bit too much work. I, like many on here, am not suggesting that Control Warrior is vastly overpowered and needs to be gutted. I am simply suggesting that cards like DBMG (and LPG) are problematic to the game in the same way garbage like Pot of Greed and Delinquent Duo in Yu Gi Oh were problematic (they punish your opponent significantly because you drew them by turn X).
Seems like people dislike control, which I understand as an aggro player and a dad: I do not have a lot of time to devote to a single match. That doesn't make the archetype a problem, it makes it inconvenient for some players (myself included). I'm all for minor changes to Boom and removing the mech tribe from Omega Dev, things like that. I'm not all for the idea that because I dislike long games and because it feels bad to lose after working for so long and so hard in a match, the deck is broken. It's not.
I can't believe people hate Dr. Boom more than turn 5 1-mana Tip-the Scales. It just seems that because people would rather the exact same short game instead of the exact same long game, control players face a community that largely dislikes them solely for playing the style they enjoy the most. If we can get turn 5 lethal with murloc pally and shaman, we can certainly get turn 20 concedes with warrior.
It's not about the archetype. It's about one specific card that causes every game against that archetype to feel the same. It's about games that last much longer than games against other control decks.
You are exactly right that people would rather lose quickly than grind out a 30-minute losing battle. I can't believe you don't understand why that is. I'm not advocating for Prismatic Lens, mind you -- all extreme mana-cheat cards are bad for the game in my estimation. But Boom feels a million times worse, regardless of one's overall opinion of control decks.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
There is no problem with CW. The issue is that people are playing lacey small minion decks which any control deck can easily beat. Lackey cards aren't good to base a whole deck on. They are good as support but in standard I am facing mainly rogues and shamans relying on the lackey for everything and haven't had any issue beating them with any deck that I'm playing.
Get away from lackey's and play a real deck. Lackey's are great for people new to the game. It's simple and introduces you to the basics. It isn't a competitive deck in any way unless you are playing against other lackey decks and for the most part you are as they are rampant in ladder and casual.
Seems like people dislike control, which I understand as an aggro player and a dad: I do not have a lot of time to devote to a single match. That doesn't make the archetype a problem, it makes it inconvenient for some players (myself included). I'm all for minor changes to Boom and removing the mech tribe from Omega Dev, things like that. I'm not all for the idea that because I dislike long games and because it feels bad to lose after working for so long and so hard in a match, the deck is broken. It's not.
I can't believe people hate Dr. Boom more than turn 5 1-mana Tip-the Scales. It just seems that because people would rather the exact same short game instead of the exact same long game, control players face a community that largely dislikes them solely for playing the style they enjoy the most. If we can get turn 5 lethal with murloc pally and shaman, we can certainly get turn 20 concedes with warrior.
It's not about the archetype. It's about one specific card that causes every game against that archetype to feel the same. It's about games that last much longer than games against other control decks.
You are exactly right that people would rather lose quickly than grind out a 30-minute losing battle. I can't believe you don't understand why that is. I'm not advocating for Prismatic Lens, mind you -- all extreme mana-cheat cards are bad for the game in my estimation. But Boom feels a million times worse, regardless of one's overall opinion of control decks.
I... I literally just explained how I understand that people hate losing a long grind-fest match, citing my own personal reasons for feeling the same way. You quoted it.
Blizzard has their work cut out for them: make control viable, but make aggro players happy. If control can't play out as control will (long games based on attrition), then it won't matter if one card feels bad to play vs, because the rest of the deck will work the same as well. Boom gets a nerf and warrior continues to make people mad because the games will continue to be long and the card everyone hates will not affect that. Fibonacci showed this live on stream with warrior decks that didn't run Boom. Still had long matches with tons of value.
We definitely agree on mana cheating: it's super toxic for the game and I wish Blizzard would stop catering to streamers and Trolden viewers. Plenty of meme moments without making cards that spread cancer through ladder.
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Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
As of about 3 minutes ago - Control Warrior games played vs Combo Priest games played and the maintained win %
270,000 games and 60%+ winrate overall, nope Boom is totally fine *cough*
Also, when the literal best card to mulligan for is a 7 drop, yea, you know its busted.
Pick any class and you will fine almost each of them has a deck that is at 60% or at least at 59.x%. I just went to hsreplay and went through each class and other than Rogue and Druid had comparable win rates. Zoo Warlock was at 58.x% for their only deck that is worth anything right now.
As of about 3 minutes ago - Control Warrior games played vs Combo Priest games played and the maintained win %
270,000 games and 60%+ winrate overall, nope Boom is totally fine *cough*
Also, when the literal best card to mulligan for is a 7 drop, yea, you know its busted.
Pick any class and you will fine almost each of them has a deck that is at 60% or at least at 59.x%. I just went to hsreplay and went through each class and other than Rogue and Druid had comparable win rates. Zoo Warlock was at 58.x% for their only deck that is worth anything right now.
Nothing broken with CW.
HSReplay is not the only source of information about how strong a deck is.
GMs start this week. Ask yourself how many people are going to bring Warrior. Not necessarily Control Warrior. And then compare that number to your expected number of Warlocks, Druids, and Rogues.
As of about 3 minutes ago - Control Warrior games played vs Combo Priest games played and the maintained win %
270,000 games and 60%+ winrate overall, nope Boom is totally fine *cough*
Also, when the literal best card to mulligan for is a 7 drop, yea, you know its busted.
Pick any class and you will fine almost each of them has a deck that is at 60% or at least at 59.x%. I just went to hsreplay and went through each class and other than Rogue and Druid had comparable win rates. Zoo Warlock was at 58.x% for their only deck that is worth anything right now.
Nothing broken with CW.
HSReplay is not the only source of information about how strong a deck is.
GMs start this week. Ask yourself how many people are going to bring Warrior. Not necessarily Control Warrior. And then compare that number to your expected number of Warlocks, Druids, and Rogues.
As we saw in Seoul, Mage was the most popular and had the highest winrate. Really didn't see warrior all that much. I expect the same for the GM's. Hunter also was far more popular and all hunter decks are right up about 58 to 60%. There isn't a current hunter meta deck that is below 58%.
Really you also have to take the popularity of decks right now and Rogues/Shaman are the most popular out there if you look. It isn't even Murloc Shaman which has a 60+% win rate. Quest Rogue and Quest Shaman and both decks are easily beaten by CW and why their win rate is is as high as it is. People like to play easy decks and Rogue and Shaman are easy decks to play and for CW are easy decks to win against. I'm currently playing Quest Priest and also have no issue beating Quest rogue or shaman and they come up as my opponent most of the time.
Boom is so broken. I just can't take it any more. It's ruining the game. There's no counter for Boom.
My sides hurt from laughing.
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
Nobody said there wasn’t a counter, it just feels unhealthy for the overall experience of the game.
Looking at the Meta Tier lists, I see CW in Tier 1/2 no matter how I choose the filters.
You have cool pictures, but they have no basis in reality.
Well I mean, I've heard enough people on Twitter saying there's no counter which is just outright untrue, but I agree Boom feels bad to play against. I am unconvinced that he's overpowered, but I do think removing Blast Shield would make him less ominous to face. The "need" for a nerf is a matter of perception based on feelings, but it's a good enough reason. Then warrior will continue to be a great control archetype as aggro decks, infinitely worse-feeling cards like Tip the Scales, and combo priest continue to be the real winners in the early Uldum meta game.
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
Based on the whole expansion's lifetime or the most recent data? The last 7 days in HSReplay show a clear shift away from control warrior's dominance as the community inevitably found ways to beat warrior and the dreaded Dr. Boom. Seems realistic enough to me, especially given the decks I'm running into on ladder.
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
As has been said many, many, many times, it's not just about power level or dominating the meta. The card creates an unpleasant game experience in much the same way as Luna's Pocket Galaxy.
People want it gone because they are sick it. They are sick of playing the same exact very long game over and over again against a shockingly low-skill deck.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
a lot of ppl complaining about control warrior
but only a few ppl trying to beat the deck
Seems like people dislike control, which I understand as an aggro player and a dad: I do not have a lot of time to devote to a single match. That doesn't make the archetype a problem, it makes it inconvenient for some players (myself included). I'm all for minor changes to Boom and removing the mech tribe from Omega Dev, things like that. I'm not all for the idea that because I dislike long games and because it feels bad to lose after working for so long and so hard in a match, the deck is broken. It's not.
I can't believe people hate Dr. Boom more than turn 5 1-mana Tip-the Scales. It just seems that because people would rather the exact same short game instead of the exact same long game, control players face a community that largely dislikes them solely for playing the style they enjoy the most. If we can get turn 5 lethal with murloc pally and shaman, we can certainly get turn 20 concedes with warrior.
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
Pot twist, everyone complaining about Dr. Boom is playing cancer-Priest
-DadamE
Please try to stay away from over sweeping generalizations.
Control Warrior beats Aggro because of its broken one drops, its broken taunt cards, its broken mid game rush minions, and its broken AOE board clears. It doesn't need its broken hero card against Aggro.
The issues with Boom is that is has eliminated all other Control decks from the Meta during both RoS and SoU, as well as surpressing most of the Quest decks.
CW win rate is affected by the popularity of Mage, which is also quite broken, and designed to beat Warrior.
When the best and most popular deck in the game is designed to beat you, and you are still T1, something is wrong.
people are so stupid for still hating on CW. most decks beat it right now. might not be an easy (decided before mulligan matchup) w/e..
The problem isn't the deck, it is the card itself. Control Warrior is pretty strong, but it is also by and large fair deck with a specific job to do (beat aggressive strategies). However when you run four 1-drops (two of which are probably the best 1 cost minion in the game) and your highest winrate keep is a 7 mana card, you know that card is doing a little bit too much work.
I, like many on here, am not suggesting that Control Warrior is vastly overpowered and needs to be gutted. I am simply suggesting that cards like DBMG (and LPG) are problematic to the game in the same way garbage like Pot of Greed and Delinquent Duo in Yu Gi Oh were problematic (they punish your opponent significantly because you drew them by turn X).
It's not about the archetype. It's about one specific card that causes every game against that archetype to feel the same. It's about games that last much longer than games against other control decks.
You are exactly right that people would rather lose quickly than grind out a 30-minute losing battle. I can't believe you don't understand why that is. I'm not advocating for Prismatic Lens, mind you -- all extreme mana-cheat cards are bad for the game in my estimation. But Boom feels a million times worse, regardless of one's overall opinion of control decks.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
There is no problem with CW. The issue is that people are playing lacey small minion decks which any control deck can easily beat.
Lackey cards aren't good to base a whole deck on. They are good as support but in standard I am facing mainly rogues and shamans relying on the lackey for everything and haven't had any issue beating them with any deck that I'm playing.
Get away from lackey's and play a real deck. Lackey's are great for people new to the game. It's simple and introduces you to the basics. It isn't a competitive deck in any way unless you are playing against other lackey decks and for the most part you are as they are rampant in ladder and casual.
I... I literally just explained how I understand that people hate losing a long grind-fest match, citing my own personal reasons for feeling the same way. You quoted it.
Blizzard has their work cut out for them: make control viable, but make aggro players happy. If control can't play out as control will (long games based on attrition), then it won't matter if one card feels bad to play vs, because the rest of the deck will work the same as well. Boom gets a nerf and warrior continues to make people mad because the games will continue to be long and the card everyone hates will not affect that. Fibonacci showed this live on stream with warrior decks that didn't run Boom. Still had long matches with tons of value.
We definitely agree on mana cheating: it's super toxic for the game and I wish Blizzard would stop catering to streamers and Trolden viewers. Plenty of meme moments without making cards that spread cancer through ladder.
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
As of about 3 minutes ago - Control Warrior games played vs Combo Priest games played and the maintained win %
270,000 games and 60%+ winrate overall, nope Boom is totally fine *cough*
Also, when the literal best card to mulligan for is a 7 drop, yea, you know its busted.
ZhalZhak#2315 @ EU/NA
I joke a lot, if you take anything I say seriously, well, shame on you :p
Pick any class and you will fine almost each of them has a deck that is at 60% or at least at 59.x%.
I just went to hsreplay and went through each class and other than Rogue and Druid had comparable win rates. Zoo Warlock was at 58.x% for their only deck that is worth anything right now.
Nothing broken with CW.
HSReplay is not the only source of information about how strong a deck is.
GMs start this week. Ask yourself how many people are going to bring Warrior. Not necessarily Control Warrior. And then compare that number to your expected number of Warlocks, Druids, and Rogues.
As we saw in Seoul, Mage was the most popular and had the highest winrate. Really didn't see warrior all that much. I expect the same for the GM's. Hunter also was far more popular and all hunter decks are right up about 58 to 60%. There isn't a current hunter meta deck that is below 58%.
Really you also have to take the popularity of decks right now and Rogues/Shaman are the most popular out there if you look. It isn't even Murloc Shaman which has a 60+% win rate. Quest Rogue and Quest Shaman and both decks are easily beaten by CW and why their win rate is is as high as it is. People like to play easy decks and Rogue and Shaman are easy decks to play and for CW are easy decks to win against.
I'm currently playing Quest Priest and also have no issue beating Quest rogue or shaman and they come up as my opponent most of the time.
So the counter to boom is to kill warrior before they can play him. That's logical.
"You can't just assign random prices to junk you find in a storage locker."