Playing against an Odd Rogue with some Burgle business on the side, Orgrimmar Aspirant showed up to play. The turn after OA was played, my opponent Hero Powered, which should have given their weapon the +1 Attack, but didn't. I have no idea why this happened, and am stunned to find that Inspire is broken in some cases. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the upgraded Hero Power not actually being recognized by parts of the game's engine. If someone could test this to find out, that'd be great. This could likely be overlooked by Blizzard for a long time, and if we could get something solid together that could be reported so we know what to mention to whoever matters, that'd be really helpful.
I think the lazy game designers just titled ( give it 1 attack ) but in real it makes it 2/2 and thats what always happen i mean when you hero power you must destroy your previous weapon and take a 1/2, but is the same bug worked with Justicar Trueheart? If it was then that proofs my talk.
I think the lazy game designers just titled ( give it 1 attack ) but in real it makes it 2/2 and thats what always happen i mean when you hero power you must destroy your previous weapon and take a 1/2, but is the same bug worked with Justicar Trueheart? If it was then that proofs my talk.
You are next to impossible to understand. The only thing I really caught was that Justicar Trueheart might be a good card to test this, so thanks for the idea. Though playing JT in Rogue and getting an Orgrimmar Aspirant might be a challenge. Might just have to run Finley to try getting the Rogue Hero Power.
Likely it is an order of operations issue. If the inspire effect happens before the hero power takes effect, that would explain it. This being rogue, the inspire would give the currently equipped weapon +1 attack. That weapon would then be destroyed and replaced by the newly equipped dagger.
Did they have a dagger equipped before they used the hero power, or did you let them equip another dagger with the Aspiriant on board and a dagger equipped? If so, you probably would have seen the animation giving the first dagger +1 attack.
I don´t think its a bug, I just think the "when" resolves before the effect of the Hero Power resolves. That means the opponent pressed the button, the Orgrimmar Aspirant gave its current weapon (none) +1 attack and after that the hero power resolved, given him a 2/2 weapon with no buffs.
Likely it is an order of operations issue. If the inspire effect happens before the hero power takes effect, that would explain it. This being rogue, the inspire would give the currently equipped weapon +1 attack. That weapon would then be destroyed and replaced by the newly equipped dagger.
Did they have a dagger equipped before they used the hero power, or did you let them equip another dagger with the Aspiriant on board and a dagger equipped? If so, you probably would have seen the animation giving the first dagger +1 attack.
I wouldn't be making this post if I had seen any animation, not to be rude. Other than the equipping of a new dagger, nothing happened when they Hero Powered. I understand this is an older issue. What you're saying could be right, that it's an operations issue. ArturVF89 might have just explained the problem, though I haven't completely looked at it to try comprehending what's going on currently, so who knows.
Wasn't being rude or insinuating you missed something. I was implying that if the board had been in that state, you would have seen an animation which would have confirmed the behavior. Since they did not have a weapon equipped, nothing would have happened.
Artur's explanation was the same as mine, just more thorough.
I would like this to be confirmed after that new "rules patch" I metioned, since you are correct, I remember this interaction from the times of midrange Shamman.
It may be the case that the whole interaction with Inspire changed after the patch to be consistent with the way cards work in terms of order. It may also be the case that the two interactions are inconsistent. Anyways, haven´t seen a Thunder Bluff Valiant since it rotated to Wild, and most likelly won´t see it on high ranks (its a heropower-based card that is Odd...)
I did the test mysilf. Aside for the sadness of finding people playing Even Shamman and Big Priest on casual, I found that Thunder Bluff Valiant keeps working the same old way, buffing AFTER the toten spaws. As MaximGorkij pointed out, they said in 2015 that the Inspire would happen AFTER the HeroPower.
The way I see is: the interaction should be changed to happen BEFORE the effect of the Hero Power, to keep it consistent with the ordering of playing cards. In the specific case of Thunder Bluff Valiant, it could be changed to say "AFTER you use your hero power, giver your totens +2 attack". It would loose the "Inspire" keyword, but its an older expansion, people wouldn´t care if this means adding consistance to the game.
Anyways, I also agree that its such a cornercase scenario with an older keyword that the team specifically sayed was a failure and would not be used again anytime soon, that I am OK with it existing, even if it may ruin a game out of 100.000. It shouldn´t , but there are higher priorities in terms of development.
So if the Inspire effect activates after the Hero Power (which it should), that doesn't explain why my opponent's weapon didn't receive a buff. Thunder Bluff Valiant doesn't really help to explain why Orgrimmar Aspirant didn't even queue up any kind of animation or effect when my opponent equipped a new dagger with their Hero Power.
What I think is worst is the fact that two Inspire cards seem to have different behaviors, implying they have different coding.
Id soon think that the "problem" here is the phase of equipping a new weapon than to believe the Inspire on two cards works differently. Obviously it could have been an oversight, but more likely there is just a game interaction that is not clear at first sight.
Playing against an Odd Rogue with some Burgle business on the side, Orgrimmar Aspirant showed up to play. The turn after OA was played, my opponent Hero Powered, which should have given their weapon the +1 Attack, but didn't. I have no idea why this happened, and am stunned to find that Inspire is broken in some cases. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the upgraded Hero Power not actually being recognized by parts of the game's engine. If someone could test this to find out, that'd be great. This could likely be overlooked by Blizzard for a long time, and if we could get something solid together that could be reported so we know what to mention to whoever matters, that'd be really helpful.
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I think the lazy game designers just titled ( give it 1 attack ) but in real it makes it 2/2 and thats what always happen i mean when you hero power you must destroy your previous weapon and take a 1/2, but is the same bug worked with Justicar Trueheart? If it was then that proofs my talk.
This has been known for quite some time. If Blizzard wanted it fixed, they would have done that. So it's probably a bug-become-feature thing.
Maybe the buff happens before the weapon is equipped
You are next to impossible to understand. The only thing I really caught was that Justicar Trueheart might be a good card to test this, so thanks for the idea. Though playing JT in Rogue and getting an Orgrimmar Aspirant might be a challenge. Might just have to run Finley to try getting the Rogue Hero Power.
Come visit my Card Emporium. Strange things, you will find inside...
Come take the test, if you're daring. Feel free to show me your results in a message.
Likely it is an order of operations issue. If the inspire effect happens before the hero power takes effect, that would explain it. This being rogue, the inspire would give the currently equipped weapon +1 attack. That weapon would then be destroyed and replaced by the newly equipped dagger.
Did they have a dagger equipped before they used the hero power, or did you let them equip another dagger with the Aspiriant on board and a dagger equipped? If so, you probably would have seen the animation giving the first dagger +1 attack.
I don´t think its a bug, I just think the "when" resolves before the effect of the Hero Power resolves. That means the opponent pressed the button, the Orgrimmar Aspirant gave its current weapon (none) +1 attack and after that the hero power resolved, given him a 2/2 weapon with no buffs.
This is similar to the case described in the blog post about the mechanics of the game (source: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/hearthstone/topic/20759378548#1)
Sequence
Whenever an action is taken, Hearthstone executes a sequence of steps to resolve what happens.
Here’s a simplified example sequence:
triggers
resolve
triggers
resolve
You can see that the "Whenever" trigger happens BEFORE the habilities of the card played (in this case, Hero Power pressed) resolves.
I wouldn't be making this post if I had seen any animation, not to be rude. Other than the equipping of a new dagger, nothing happened when they Hero Powered. I understand this is an older issue. What you're saying could be right, that it's an operations issue. ArturVF89 might have just explained the problem, though I haven't completely looked at it to try comprehending what's going on currently, so who knows.
Come visit my Card Emporium. Strange things, you will find inside...
Come take the test, if you're daring. Feel free to show me your results in a message.
Wasn't being rude or insinuating you missed something. I was implying that if the board had been in that state, you would have seen an animation which would have confirmed the behavior. Since they did not have a weapon equipped, nothing would have happened.
Artur's explanation was the same as mine, just more thorough.
Except Thunder Bluff Valiant's inspire effect happens AFTER the hero power resolves, giving the new totem +2 attack (according to wiki https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Thunder_Bluff_Valiant at least).
So, the +1 weapon attack inspire triggering BEFORE the hero power would be inconsistent with this other inspire effect.
I would like this to be confirmed after that new "rules patch" I metioned, since you are correct, I remember this interaction from the times of midrange Shamman.
It may be the case that the whole interaction with Inspire changed after the patch to be consistent with the way cards work in terms of order. It may also be the case that the two interactions are inconsistent. Anyways, haven´t seen a Thunder Bluff Valiant since it rotated to Wild, and most likelly won´t see it on high ranks (its a heropower-based card that is Odd...)
It is a bug. Inspire happens AFTER the hero power use.
See: https://twitter.com/CM_Whirthun/status/623999418950258688 and https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Inspire
--Alfi--
I did the test mysilf. Aside for the sadness of finding people playing Even Shamman and Big Priest on casual, I found that Thunder Bluff Valiant keeps working the same old way, buffing AFTER the toten spaws. As MaximGorkij pointed out, they said in 2015 that the Inspire would happen AFTER the HeroPower.
The way I see is: the interaction should be changed to happen BEFORE the effect of the Hero Power, to keep it consistent with the ordering of playing cards. In the specific case of Thunder Bluff Valiant, it could be changed to say "AFTER you use your hero power, giver your totens +2 attack". It would loose the "Inspire" keyword, but its an older expansion, people wouldn´t care if this means adding consistance to the game.
Anyways, I also agree that its such a cornercase scenario with an older keyword that the team specifically sayed was a failure and would not be used again anytime soon, that I am OK with it existing, even if it may ruin a game out of 100.000. It shouldn´t , but there are higher priorities in terms of development.
So if the Inspire effect activates after the Hero Power (which it should), that doesn't explain why my opponent's weapon didn't receive a buff. Thunder Bluff Valiant doesn't really help to explain why Orgrimmar Aspirant didn't even queue up any kind of animation or effect when my opponent equipped a new dagger with their Hero Power.
This is really fucking strange.
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What I think is worst is the fact that two Inspire cards seem to have different behaviors, implying they have different coding.
Id soon think that the "problem" here is the phase of equipping a new weapon than to believe the Inspire on two cards works differently. Obviously it could have been an oversight, but more likely there is just a game interaction that is not clear at first sight.
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Come visit my Card Emporium. Strange things, you will find inside...
Come take the test, if you're daring. Feel free to show me your results in a message.