So I know that the dev team has stated that Kobolds and Catacombs marked the end of Discard Warlock support with the spell Cataclysm, but I feel that the deck could've worked if Blizzard just made a few changes to the discard synergy cards. So, I took to Hearthcards.net, took a look at some of the discard synergy cards, and changed them just a little to try and make the Discard mechanic at least a little bit more viable. These changes were just the first ones that came to my mind, but I think they could've been a good step toward improving the deck archetype. Link to the gallery: https://imgur.com/a/kYXpo9q
EDIT 5/16/2018, 7:30 PM: I have revamped the gallery to focus more on adjusting cards that discard in order to try and make the mechanic somewhat rewarding for the player. I would appreciate any and all thoughts and/or feedback.
Prioritized discard is both clunky and would swing the other way of OP'd. Silverware Golem was actually one of the few cards that was great for the disco synergy as is. Lana'thel should have had a brood mother type return to the hand effect. It's just unplayable as is. "This Cannot Be Discarded" isn't great because it's a clunky interface and a bit confusing for the opponent. The way the broodmother worked was ideal for that sort of effect.
The Kara Kazham thing is weirdly designed. It's also way too easy to complete the quest at little drawback with that.
I do agree with your comments on the "can't be discarded" text, which is why I included the alternate versions of those cards in the gallery. The main reason I wanted to try adding discard priority is for situations where you have a large hand with only 1 or 2 synergy cards. I just feel like having some guarantee on a discard could make the mechanic somewhat more fun and intuitive to play with.
I feel like I should explain my intent with my take on Kara Kazham a bit better. What I see with my version of the card is you are given a choice to make: either use the cards to develop a board or set up for defile, or keep them in your hand to discard while risking losing tempo and board control. I wanted to make a discard card that is a bit more flexible and that encourages decision making.
My thoughts exactly. That's why I suggested making fist of Jaraxxus and silverware golem cards with priority discard in my gallery. The archetype and mechanic had potential to be decent, it just needed a little bit of help.
1. I really dislike prioritizing cards which gain a benefit when discarded, such as Silverware Golem. Turning discard mechanics into straight-up buffs would be kinda busted, IMHO. It'd just be a bit too easy and reliable to gain even bigger tempo swings from the mechanics. Having it be too reliable reminds me of the issues with Patches the Pirate before the nerf. At least, I dislike it with the cards which were already developed. I can imagine new cards designed to be discarded that had a power-level which would be more fair.
2. I really love the idea of Blood-Queen Lana'thel and Nether Portal granting some sort of benefit if discarded. It's so painful to see that happen, and having some sort of benefit in the worst-case scenarios would be nice. My gut says I'd rather have that sort of a mechanics than a "cannot be discarded" one. That said, for brevity's sake, I'd probably just have Lana'thel restore a flat 6 health.
3. Having Warlock spells which added cards to your hand makes sense, too. I don't know if the Kara Kazham! change works out individually, but there's probably something to work with. Suppose Fiendish Circle added 0-mana 1/1 Imps to your hand, instead of summoning them directly (but no direct "discard them" mechanic. Maybe that'd be too strong with Mountain Giant, but the premise would have been worth exploring.
4. 6-card discard quest was probably too high to begin with, so having the quest be a bit easier would have been good.
I like the text "cannot be discarded." I don't think it's too much to ask for that cards that benefit from other cards being discarded should be immune from discarding. Might make lana'thel actually viable.
Don't want to be rude but who even remotely likes the discard warlock archetype? I mean the changes You made with the cards being a prioritised cards to discard makes them incredibly broken. I can't imagine a world in which a zoo warlock wouldn't play Silerware golem/hand of jaraxxus. That's a 1 Mana 4 dmg (Summon a 3/3 aswell) or DEAL 8 DMG. That's simply insane tempo AND value, probably making the quest redundant by the way. I'm sorry but the only change i like is for some cards to become immune to discard effects.
IMHO, 2 relatively minor changes may have made it viable. Summoning portal Imps should be boosted somehow. Maybe make it a choose one effect ... 2/4 Taunt, or 3/2 vanilla, or 1/3 Lifesteal.
The second would be making Blood Queen and Clutchmother untargetable. What is the point in having minions that you literally spend 2/3 of the game setting up, only to have them removed or silenced?
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I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
Don't want to be rude but who even remotely likes the discard warlock archetype? I mean the changes You made with the cards being a prioritised cards to discard makes them incredibly broken. I can't imagine a world in which a zoo warlock wouldn't play Silerware golem/hand of jaraxxus. That's a 1 Mana 4 dmg (Summon a 3/3 aswell) or DEAL 8 DMG. That's simply insane tempo AND value, probably making the quest redundant by the way. I'm sorry but the only change i like is for some cards to become immune to discard effects.
I liked it, made a zoo disco lock that was honestly decent. Lots more people would like it too if it was semi-viable.
To each their own though, I find piloting spiteful decks to be incredibly boring.
Don't want to be rude but who even remotely likes the discard warlock archetype? I mean the changes You made with the cards being a prioritised cards to discard makes them incredibly broken. I can't imagine a world in which a zoo warlock wouldn't play Silerware golem/hand of jaraxxus. That's a 1 Mana 4 dmg (Summon a 3/3 aswell) or DEAL 8 DMG. That's simply insane tempo AND value, probably making the quest redundant by the way. I'm sorry but the only change i like is for some cards to become immune to discard effects.
I played tons of discard lock in wild, particularly with the addition of Cataclysm. It wasn't a great deck but it was definitely enjoyable and had some nice swing moments.
So I know that the dev team has stated that Kobolds and Catacombs marked the end of Discard Warlock support with the spell Cataclysm, but I feel that the deck could've worked if Blizzard just made a few changes to the discard synergy cards. So, I took to Hearthcards.net, took a look at some of the discard synergy cards, and changed them just a little to try and make the Discard mechanic at least a little bit more viable. These changes were just the first ones that came to my mind, but I think they could've been a good step toward improving the deck archetype.
Link to the gallery: https://imgur.com/a/kYXpo9q
EDIT 5/16/2018, 7:30 PM: I have revamped the gallery to focus more on adjusting cards that discard in order to try and make the mechanic somewhat rewarding for the player. I would appreciate any and all thoughts and/or feedback.
really good ideas man!
Prioritized discard is both clunky and would swing the other way of OP'd. Silverware Golem was actually one of the few cards that was great for the disco synergy as is. Lana'thel should have had a brood mother type return to the hand effect. It's just unplayable as is. "This Cannot Be Discarded" isn't great because it's a clunky interface and a bit confusing for the opponent. The way the broodmother worked was ideal for that sort of effect.
The Kara Kazham thing is weirdly designed. It's also way too easy to complete the quest at little drawback with that.
I do agree with your comments on the "can't be discarded" text, which is why I included the alternate versions of those cards in the gallery. The main reason I wanted to try adding discard priority is for situations where you have a large hand with only 1 or 2 synergy cards. I just feel like having some guarantee on a discard could make the mechanic somewhat more fun and intuitive to play with.
Also, the Kara Kazham change was just to try and make a discard card for the set that had none of it's own, but 2 synergy cards.
I still will not disenchant Lakkari Sacrifice because I want to believe in the dream.
Instead of the ‘Cant be discarded’ you could introduce a new ‘Discarded:’ keyword. For example:
Discarded: Return this card to your hand.
It would then have even better synergy with the mechanic as well as cards like Cataclysm, Doomguard etc
I feel like I should explain my intent with my take on Kara Kazham a bit better. What I see with my version of the card is you are given a choice to make: either use the cards to develop a board or set up for defile, or keep them in your hand to discard while risking losing tempo and board control. I wanted to make a discard card that is a bit more flexible and that encourages decision making.
All they had to do was make one or two cards with priority discard and the deck would have been semi-viable.
My thoughts exactly. That's why I suggested making fist of Jaraxxus and silverware golem cards with priority discard in my gallery. The archetype and mechanic had potential to be decent, it just needed a little bit of help.
I actually do agree that making lanathel similar to clutchmother zavas would be a good idea. I'm going to add that change to the gallery later today.
1. I really dislike prioritizing cards which gain a benefit when discarded, such as Silverware Golem. Turning discard mechanics into straight-up buffs would be kinda busted, IMHO. It'd just be a bit too easy and reliable to gain even bigger tempo swings from the mechanics. Having it be too reliable reminds me of the issues with Patches the Pirate before the nerf. At least, I dislike it with the cards which were already developed. I can imagine new cards designed to be discarded that had a power-level which would be more fair.
2. I really love the idea of Blood-Queen Lana'thel and Nether Portal granting some sort of benefit if discarded. It's so painful to see that happen, and having some sort of benefit in the worst-case scenarios would be nice. My gut says I'd rather have that sort of a mechanics than a "cannot be discarded" one. That said, for brevity's sake, I'd probably just have Lana'thel restore a flat 6 health.
3. Having Warlock spells which added cards to your hand makes sense, too. I don't know if the Kara Kazham! change works out individually, but there's probably something to work with. Suppose Fiendish Circle added 0-mana 1/1 Imps to your hand, instead of summoning them directly (but no direct "discard them" mechanic. Maybe that'd be too strong with Mountain Giant, but the premise would have been worth exploring.
4. 6-card discard quest was probably too high to begin with, so having the quest be a bit easier would have been good.
Discard was always bad from the get go. NOTHING could ever save a bad mechanic.
I like the text "cannot be discarded." I don't think it's too much to ask for that cards that benefit from other cards being discarded should be immune from discarding. Might make lana'thel actually viable.
Don't want to be rude but who even remotely likes the discard warlock archetype? I mean the changes You made with the cards being a prioritised cards to discard makes them incredibly broken. I can't imagine a world in which a zoo warlock wouldn't play Silerware golem/hand of jaraxxus. That's a 1 Mana 4 dmg (Summon a 3/3 aswell) or DEAL 8 DMG. That's simply insane tempo AND value, probably making the quest redundant by the way. I'm sorry but the only change i like is for some cards to become immune to discard effects.
it's playable in wild, just not standard.
Fun > Meta
IMHO, 2 relatively minor changes may have made it viable. Summoning portal Imps should be boosted somehow. Maybe make it a choose one effect ... 2/4 Taunt, or 3/2 vanilla, or 1/3 Lifesteal.
The second would be making Blood Queen and Clutchmother untargetable. What is the point in having minions that you literally spend 2/3 of the game setting up, only to have them removed or silenced?
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile