Since everyone is already doomsaying about Cubelock once the nerfs hit, and resurrections seem to be getting increasingly problematic as far as value is concerned, I was wondering if it isn't time to introduce a reliable way to permanently remove some cards from the match altogether.
The closest thing we have is transformation effects, which are exclusive to mage/shaman/Kazakus users, or mind control effects by priest.
This is obviously not a new concept. N'Zoth by himself already brought the idea to my mind and probably many other people too. However, we've come a long way from WOTOG.
Perhaps the transformation of dying units could also work. In Eternal, for example:
While this card is in play, killing minions turns them into buffs, and they don't go to the enemy graveyard which prevents their resurrection and deathrattles from triggering. Obviously no one would sacrifice or drop a cube with this in play. Recently, Eternal has also introduced a Banish mechanic, which is another way to get rid of something for good.
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health. - Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
I think instead of a new effect, there should be more transformation cards. Since more or less they do the same job on simple level.
I did think of that too, it just seems harder to thematically fit transformation into all classes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health. - Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
I would be for it in HS. Yu-Gi-Oh had its own system for this with its "Remove from play" effects and they even eventually moved to taking advantage of such a removal system by allowing you to resummon minions from that 'pseudo-graveyard' state and use it as a win condition via Return From a Different Dimension.
However, one thing that would need to not happen if it was implemented in HS would be to not create too many cards over many expansions that had this effect (ie it could not be a mechanic that would be consistently maintained every HS year) because the effect it would have on wild is that you pretty much start having decks that accumulate all of these types of effects to remove every minion in the opponent's deck from play which they can't even return via effects such as N'Zoth or Gul'Dan. I shudder to think of the terrible and terribly boring stallfests that would result from such an archtype.
I'm not opposed as long at the cards aren't good on their own. If you want a tech card to combat deathrattle/rez effects that's fine. I just don't want it good enough to include just because it'll sometimes be fine. But make one like Eater of Secrets and sure. Painful to include but does a specific job at banishing for certain matchups.
Just want to see if I undersand this correctly. By an "Exile" mechanic, do you mean something like the following (oversimplified, admittedly):
Destroy target enemy minion. It cannot be resurrected.
Or do you mean something like:
Destroy target enemy minion: Its Deathrattles do not trigger.
Or maybe both? Personally I like the effect of both of these myself - though I can imagine them being quite expensive removals if they existed as they are pretty strong,.
I was just thinking about preventing resurrections. Preventing deathrattles can already be achieved through silences (although N'Zoth still brings them back).
But honestly, in accord to Statuary Maiden, I was thinking about something along the lines of "Enemy minions that die first transform into 1/1 sheep". It does not benefit you directly, but it does prevent resurrections/deathrattles, while forcing you to still handle their initial stats. Also the opponent can kill the minion to stop the effect.
I also thought about Defias Cleaner. If instead of silencing he transformed the DR minion into one with the same body, but without the text, I think he could see play.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health. - Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
I guess there's a soft-precedent for that sort of effect in the guise of Kazakus' potion. (If you get the polymorph and damage combo)
Very powerful, but I like it as a spell. It would have to be suitably costed of course, but that's a different discussion. I think it's pretty reasonable.
If physical card games like Magic the Gathering and Yugioh can implement this mechanic, a digital game like Hearthstone would most definitely be able to sustain it. Just create a new keyword "banish" and have the banished cards be coded as if they were never in the deck to begin with. No Deathrattles. No revival. No "if you've played x card this game" effects. Just go poof. It might take some thought into how to balance the effect relative to mana cost (I'm thinking a 6 mana banish, and a 9 mana AoE banish, add restrictions like "banish a minion with 3 or less attack" or something), but that should be resolved with proper testing. *cough* Blizzard *cough*
Since everyone is already doomsaying about Cubelock once the nerfs hit, and resurrections seem to be getting increasingly problematic as far as value is concerned, I was wondering if it isn't time to introduce a reliable way to permanently remove some cards from the match altogether.
The closest thing we have is transformation effects, which are exclusive to mage/shaman/Kazakus users, or mind control effects by priest.
This is obviously not a new concept. N'Zoth by himself already brought the idea to my mind and probably many other people too. However, we've come a long way from WOTOG.
Perhaps the transformation of dying units could also work. In Eternal, for example:
While this card is in play, killing minions turns them into buffs, and they don't go to the enemy graveyard which prevents their resurrection and deathrattles from triggering. Obviously no one would sacrifice or drop a cube with this in play. Recently, Eternal has also introduced a Banish mechanic, which is another way to get rid of something for good.
EDIT: Forgot shaman existed while I wrote this
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health.
- Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
I think instead of a new effect, there should be more transformation cards. Since more or less they do the same job on simple level.
There is always Hex and Tinkmaster Overspark Kappa.
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health.
- Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
I could see priest or someone getting a card like "Banish: remove a minion from the game". Kinda like Entomb without the shuffle.
Hearthstone needs a graveyard or discard pile before anything like banish or exile can be implemented.
I would be for it in HS. Yu-Gi-Oh had its own system for this with its "Remove from play" effects and they even eventually moved to taking advantage of such a removal system by allowing you to resummon minions from that 'pseudo-graveyard' state and use it as a win condition via Return From a Different Dimension.
However, one thing that would need to not happen if it was implemented in HS would be to not create too many cards over many expansions that had this effect (ie it could not be a mechanic that would be consistently maintained every HS year) because the effect it would have on wild is that you pretty much start having decks that accumulate all of these types of effects to remove every minion in the opponent's deck from play which they can't even return via effects such as N'Zoth or Gul'Dan. I shudder to think of the terrible and terribly boring stallfests that would result from such an archtype.
I'm not opposed as long at the cards aren't good on their own. If you want a tech card to combat deathrattle/rez effects that's fine. I just don't want it good enough to include just because it'll sometimes be fine. But make one like Eater of Secrets and sure. Painful to include but does a specific job at banishing for certain matchups.
Galavant Animation
Just want to see if I undersand this correctly.
By an "Exile" mechanic, do you mean something like the following (oversimplified, admittedly):
Destroy target enemy minion. It cannot be resurrected.
Or do you mean something like:
Destroy target enemy minion: Its Deathrattles do not trigger.
Or maybe both?
Personally I like the effect of both of these myself - though I can imagine them being quite expensive removals if they existed as they are pretty strong,.
I was just thinking about preventing resurrections. Preventing deathrattles can already be achieved through silences (although N'Zoth still brings them back).
But honestly, in accord to Statuary Maiden, I was thinking about something along the lines of "Enemy minions that die first transform into 1/1 sheep". It does not benefit you directly, but it does prevent resurrections/deathrattles, while forcing you to still handle their initial stats. Also the opponent can kill the minion to stop the effect.
I also thought about Defias Cleaner. If instead of silencing he transformed the DR minion into one with the same body, but without the text, I think he could see play.
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health.
- Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
I guess there's a soft-precedent for that sort of effect in the guise of Kazakus' potion. (If you get the polymorph and damage combo)
Very powerful, but I like it as a spell. It would have to be suitably costed of course, but that's a different discussion. I think it's pretty reasonable.
If physical card games like Magic the Gathering and Yugioh can implement this mechanic, a digital game like Hearthstone would most definitely be able to sustain it. Just create a new keyword "banish" and have the banished cards be coded as if they were never in the deck to begin with. No Deathrattles. No revival. No "if you've played x card this game" effects. Just go poof. It might take some thought into how to balance the effect relative to mana cost (I'm thinking a 6 mana banish, and a 9 mana AoE banish, add restrictions like "banish a minion with 3 or less attack" or something), but that should be resolved with proper testing. *cough* Blizzard *cough*