This is an experiment. Hopefully it won't devolve into name-calling and hollow posts, but this is hearthpwn, so I don't have much hope that it won't happen.
First off, for this thread, THE BELOW ARE NOT CONSTRUCTIVE. While I feel such threads / posts are fine and healthy to have, there are plenty of such threads all over hearthpwn for them; I'm aiming for something different here.
calling things OP
calling for nerfs
calling for buffs
complaining
should I craft X
Types of CONSTRUCTIVE posts
Analysis, such as WHY certain classes / decks are strong
Suggestions, such as HOW to counter certain decks / classes, or what type of decks and strategies could be tried out that appear lacking
Asking for specific points of analysis and suggestions
And, inevitably, Druid will be discussed.
Analysis: Yes, Druid is strong how, and comes in two main flavors currently: Jade and token / taunt.
For Jade, I feel their success early in this meta (remember, only 1 week old (new?) now) was easy to see coming. On 8/10, I opened some packs, got the Druid DK and 2 Ultimate Infestations, though to myself "Well, I'm pretty sure everyone will be trying greedy / control decks. What's great versus those? Jade Druid!" and quickly shot up to rank 5 (I don't even have Fandral). However, I do think Jade Druid will not be as dominant for long, and the why is in suggestions below.
For token / taunt, I haven't played as it yet myself, but for me, this feels more difficult to face than Jade Druid. Personally, I'd like to hear what others are doing when facing this deck, both from a deck building, and tactical / strategic play standpoint.
WHY is druid so strong? Well, the huge amount of ramp available, paired with cards that have huge value, especially later in the game, are a potent mix. In my opinion, no 1 card stands out. Jade Idol, Earthen Scales, Mark o.t. Lotus are terrible at the start of the game, but in the later stages, can't be beat for what you get out of 1 mana / 1 card. UI is just, well, 19 mana / 3 cards of effects (Sprint + Shieldmaiden + Starfire) for 10 mana / 1 card; yep, value. Spreading Plague and Druid o.t. Swarm are alot of stats for the mana (usually). So, I don't see Druid really not being strong until the next standard cycle. They just have alot of great cards and synergies, and as Shaman and the ONinK era taught us anything, alot of good cards and synergies makes a class good for a long time, even with the occasional nerf. This is a CCG after all, and they have metas; thats just part of the game. Its up to us to figure it out, even if we don't like it. BUT druid still doesn't have good single-target-removal or burn, there are opportunities, and hopefully they are enough!
Suggestions: MIDRANGE! Once at rank 5, I dropped Druid, and have been experimenting and having fun with other classes. Overall, I've found midrange type of decks, especially those going tall instead of wide, to be very strong, with Bonemare being a real MVP. I've played zoo warlock and dragon / inner-fire priest, and found them quite strong versus many different decks, including Jade. I've also found highlander priest to be doing well also against the fields as well. And while Rogue is my favorite class, and I've done a bunch of experiments with their DK, I'm sad to say those haven't worked out. Though there is a, lets call it non-intuitive, Rogue deck (again, midrange focused) that I have found success with, and am curious if anyone else knows what I'm talking about.
I think the 'tall not wide' midrange decks (with a board of few minions that get buffed by other minions) really shoots to the early/mid game weakness of Jade. By the time they are done ramping, you have them down to 20 ish, and are threatening lethal in a few turns. More ramp doesn't help them, and they can only prevent the incoming damage for so long while not developing their jades. Even Primordial Drake or Spreading Plague against a board of 2-3 4/4 to 5/5ish minions doesn't do much; after some combination of buff, trades, and develop, they are facing a similar or worse board state immediately again. As for the token / taunt druids, well, it's closer, but goes toe-to-toe with them (of the few I've played against), and if you can get their board cleared or very small around turns 4-5, their buff spells are very inefficient, and they have a hard time coming back. But I'll say it again, TALL NOT WIDE; Spreading Plague just gets too much value otherwise.
Also, Skulking Geist IN CONTROL DECKS, and PLAYED CORRECTLY can help alot versus Jade (also versus those pesky Priests and Shamans as well, bonus!). An SG asap, when the board state allows it, is key. I've seen SG dropped when someone is very behind on board, and its not helpful; yes, my one cost spells are gone, but so is half of your remaining life the next turn, threatening lethal the following. But I've had control pallys drop it on me late in the game when they've been holding it for turns on end, waiting to do so after I've shuffled in some Jade Idols, and don't have much of a board, with the plan I had being to UI next turn; needless to say, they won : P
Asking: What have people found effective versus token / taunt druid for the non-priest classes? While midrange decks I've played can equal them, similar to their weakness, if they get ahead on board, its very hard to come back. I've found Crypt Lord to be especially troublesome . Also, what have people found effective against resurrect priest (outside of hoping they don't high-roll early)?
As many know, one of the best ways to understand (how to beat) a deck is to play it! I don't have and am not currently going to craft Exodia Mage, though its a popular anti-druid suggestion. So I can't play it. For those who have, what do you find it's weaknesses to be, especially surprising weaknesses (Eater of Secrets + 1 damage lethal is obvious).
Here's hoping this experiment succeeds.
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This is an experiment. Hopefully it won't devolve into name-calling and hollow posts, but this is hearthpwn, so I don't have much hope that it won't happen.
First off, for this thread, THE BELOW ARE NOT CONSTRUCTIVE. While I feel such threads / posts are fine and healthy to have, there are plenty of such threads all over hearthpwn for them; I'm aiming for something different here.
Types of CONSTRUCTIVE posts
And, inevitably, Druid will be discussed.
Analysis: Yes, Druid is strong how, and comes in two main flavors currently: Jade and token / taunt.
For Jade, I feel their success early in this meta (remember, only 1 week old (new?) now) was easy to see coming. On 8/10, I opened some packs, got the Druid DK and 2 Ultimate Infestations, though to myself "Well, I'm pretty sure everyone will be trying greedy / control decks. What's great versus those? Jade Druid!" and quickly shot up to rank 5 (I don't even have Fandral). However, I do think Jade Druid will not be as dominant for long, and the why is in suggestions below.
For token / taunt, I haven't played as it yet myself, but for me, this feels more difficult to face than Jade Druid. Personally, I'd like to hear what others are doing when facing this deck, both from a deck building, and tactical / strategic play standpoint.
WHY is druid so strong? Well, the huge amount of ramp available, paired with cards that have huge value, especially later in the game, are a potent mix. In my opinion, no 1 card stands out. Jade Idol, Earthen Scales, Mark o.t. Lotus are terrible at the start of the game, but in the later stages, can't be beat for what you get out of 1 mana / 1 card. UI is just, well, 19 mana / 3 cards of effects (Sprint + Shieldmaiden + Starfire) for 10 mana / 1 card; yep, value. Spreading Plague and Druid o.t. Swarm are alot of stats for the mana (usually). So, I don't see Druid really not being strong until the next standard cycle. They just have alot of great cards and synergies, and as Shaman and the ONinK era taught us anything, alot of good cards and synergies makes a class good for a long time, even with the occasional nerf. This is a CCG after all, and they have metas; thats just part of the game. Its up to us to figure it out, even if we don't like it. BUT druid still doesn't have good single-target-removal or burn, there are opportunities, and hopefully they are enough!
Suggestions: MIDRANGE! Once at rank 5, I dropped Druid, and have been experimenting and having fun with other classes. Overall, I've found midrange type of decks, especially those going tall instead of wide, to be very strong, with Bonemare being a real MVP. I've played zoo warlock and dragon / inner-fire priest, and found them quite strong versus many different decks, including Jade. I've also found highlander priest to be doing well also against the fields as well. And while Rogue is my favorite class, and I've done a bunch of experiments with their DK, I'm sad to say those haven't worked out. Though there is a, lets call it non-intuitive, Rogue deck (again, midrange focused) that I have found success with, and am curious if anyone else knows what I'm talking about.
I think the 'tall not wide' midrange decks (with a board of few minions that get buffed by other minions) really shoots to the early/mid game weakness of Jade. By the time they are done ramping, you have them down to 20 ish, and are threatening lethal in a few turns. More ramp doesn't help them, and they can only prevent the incoming damage for so long while not developing their jades. Even Primordial Drake or Spreading Plague against a board of 2-3 4/4 to 5/5ish minions doesn't do much; after some combination of buff, trades, and develop, they are facing a similar or worse board state immediately again. As for the token / taunt druids, well, it's closer, but goes toe-to-toe with them (of the few I've played against), and if you can get their board cleared or very small around turns 4-5, their buff spells are very inefficient, and they have a hard time coming back. But I'll say it again, TALL NOT WIDE; Spreading Plague just gets too much value otherwise.
Also, Skulking Geist IN CONTROL DECKS, and PLAYED CORRECTLY can help alot versus Jade (also versus those pesky Priests and Shamans as well, bonus!). An SG asap, when the board state allows it, is key. I've seen SG dropped when someone is very behind on board, and its not helpful; yes, my one cost spells are gone, but so is half of your remaining life the next turn, threatening lethal the following. But I've had control pallys drop it on me late in the game when they've been holding it for turns on end, waiting to do so after I've shuffled in some Jade Idols, and don't have much of a board, with the plan I had being to UI next turn; needless to say, they won : P
Asking: What have people found effective versus token / taunt druid for the non-priest classes? While midrange decks I've played can equal them, similar to their weakness, if they get ahead on board, its very hard to come back. I've found Crypt Lord to be especially troublesome . Also, what have people found effective against resurrect priest (outside of hoping they don't high-roll early)?
As many know, one of the best ways to understand (how to beat) a deck is to play it! I don't have and am not currently going to craft Exodia Mage, though its a popular anti-druid suggestion. So I can't play it. For those who have, what do you find it's weaknesses to be, especially surprising weaknesses (Eater of Secrets + 1 damage lethal is obvious).
Here's hoping this experiment succeeds.