So I have noticed a trend with all of my decks. I play at about rank 8 and can't progress now. The decks I'm using are;
Tempo Mage,
Patron Warrior,
Face Hunter,
Discover Hunter,
Djinni Egg Paladin,
Demon Zoo,
Brann Zoo,
Dragon Priest,
Mech Mage (this is the exception because it under performs)
Every single one of these decks gets a win rate that fluctuates between 48% to 52%. If I play 1000 games I will win 500 and lose 500... The deck I use seems to be irrelevant. I hardly even seem to move up or down from Rank 8.
I understand all of the threats that the current meta decks pose and I know how to mulligan against all classes. I think the trades I make are economical. I just have no idea how to progress now.
Hard to give you advice since the only info you've given us is your decks. One could say that you're not using a top tier deck but people have reached Legend with weird decks before.
how much is the size of the sample?, maybe you are giving up after a really small amount of games with the same deck, and by small i mean 50 games with the same deck is still a small sample.
Perhaps you might want to focus on just one deck, perhaps Demon Zoo ( i guess Voidcaller/double doomguard/Mal'ganis is what you mean?) as it has some great match-ups against popular decks like Druid and seems to be the strongest of your decks in general. Try to get really comfortable with it and understand all its match-ups, your wincondition, your outs and the mulligan-process. This might help you marginally increase your climbin rate. (btw. i did the same here on EU, climbed with Malyrogue first, got stuck on rank 9, switched to Demon Midrange Zoo and went all the way up to rank 5 in one go)
It's probably a skill thing (not trying to be disrespectful). The higher you get, the better opponents you will face (usually), so if you find your winrate over a large sample is about 50% regardless of your deck, you've probably reached your current skill cap. Nothing to do but keep playing and practicing. You might not think there's something to improve, but there always is.
I hope this post doesn't come across as douchey, as that was not my intention. English is not my first language, so it can be hard to put my thought into words.
nice one blager~ points 1 & 7 i can so relate to them.
playing a burst warlock that could burst 12-20 without a board... so usually during turns 6/7 opponent will likely drop a mysterious/boom thinking it is ok to survive next turn with 11-19 life... and they continue to do it when i have board of 1-3 minions @@.
basically, i profit off mistakes using budget deck. i need get better reading, tend to try to play efficient @@
Most video games are made rather easy even on the highest difficulty setting. However in competitive games like this you will face players who are not better because of their decks but because they play better than you.
For example Rise of the Tomb Raider has so many checkpoints that even the highest difficulty is rather forgiving. However when you lose a ranked Hearthstone match your rank gets punished. It's way different than for example Dark Souls series where you just repeatedly attempt to take down a challenging boss and it's enough to be considered "good player."
The biggest mistake intermediate players make when they play this game is that they tend to trade a bit too often when they should be going face. This tendency is a carryover from when players are first making the jump from beginner to intermediate play, when they learn the importance of board control and saving cards like arcane shot, frostbolt, arcane missiles for minion removal rather than random face damage. In this stage many people learn to control the board at all costs, and that eliminating your opponent's board every turn is the "smart play". The reality is that this is not always true. For instance, let's say you have a 5/5 on board and your opponent has a 2/2. Many intermediate players will think, "okay, I have the bigger minion, I should get value out of it by killing the smaller minion". However, more often than not, the resulting 5/3 minion will just be hit for 3 damage by another source, killing off the big minion before it even gets in any damage to the opponent hero. If the 5/5 minion had attacked face instead of killing the 2/2, usually it will be killed off by the same methods the next turn anyway, but you have already gotten an additional 5 HP worth of damage on your opponent, pressuring them to play more defensively the rest of the game.
Essentially, the moral of the story is that before you make a trade it's important to actually take a moment to consider "Is this trade favorable for me stat-wise? Do I need to kill this minion because of its powerful effect? Will killing this minion prevent my opponent from making a strong play next turn considering the cards in his deck type?" If the answer to all of these questions is no, or the trade is merely a wash for both sides, then why trade when you can get extra damage in and not be any worse off? Taking the time to actually ask these questions in the larger context of each specific match-up will elevate your game to the next level, as it will add a necessary aggression to your playstyle that will keep your opponent on their heels, forcing them to respond to YOUR minions.
You are making a common mistake. You are trying to play economical, which is usually a good thing but constructed is not the Arena. In arena you always play economical, because you have no idea about what your opponent may play, so statistically the best play is the most efficient one.
But... Like I said, constructed is different. Here are some points, that I hope we'll help u get better.
1. Know your deck and opponent's deck win condition. This basically means that you have to know what is your goal in that game and your opponent's. If you are playing i.e. midrange druid - your basic strategy is to get your opponent to ~14 health or below and then finish them with your combo. So moves, that for example are extremely inefficient but allows you to get your opponent below 14 HP are usually the correct ones. It doesn't matter that your opponent will get board advantage, because you will finish him off anyways. This is only your side, but there is also a second side - your opponent. If you play against aggro, you must play defensive, if you play against control, you must be hurry and play tempo. Now comes the hardest part in that - distinguish, which is more important each game - to fulfill your goal(win condition) or to block theirs. Why is it so complicated? Because it does not only matter on your deck and your opponents but it also depends on the cards that were played, who is taking a lead etc. So i.e. when you see that aggro deck is ahead but used most of cards in hand, you must change your strategy and try to make them not reach the goal and then try to take overhead. Clear their board inefficiently, "waste" your combo cards like FON or Savage Roar. They will run out of steam and u will win eventually. Examples are literally endless.
2. Try to read your opponent by his plays. This is a part that comes mostly from experience and knowledge about popular decks. Opponent is gready? He isn't playing cards, when he has like 7 or 8 in his hand? He probably wants to gain a card advantage by clearing your whole board by i.e. Flamestrike. This is another example that you don't play efficiently. Don't attack his 4/4 with yours 6/7, so your 4/2 will survive. Sacrifice your 4/2, so when he uses flamestrike u still have 6/3. This is hard part and to be better at it - play various decks with previous point in mind. You will understand that if opponents is throwing i.e. knife juggler instead of shielded minibot, he probably has nothing to play or wants to trigger juggler's effect.
3. Learn to play around something. This is a mixed part from point 1 and 2. It basically means to play around opponents possibly moves but not based on their behavior but rather on their deck type. I.e. you are playing against freeze mage - you know his win condition, you know his combo. So don't be afraid to destroy 4/1 with your hero. Don't be afraid to drop below 20 hp. He wants to use alex anyways, so being at 18 hp is completely fine. Second thing - don't be "efficient" at all, this match up has nothing to do with being efficient. You want to get him low as fast as possible with not losing whole hand to doomsayer + frostnova combo. Trade your minions into theirs and save your swipe or silence for that pesky doomsayer.
4. If you don't know what to do, use probability - always. If you have no idea what to play, because you can't read your opponent. Don't play efficiently, play with probability in mind. What is the probability that the opponent mage will have a spell to clear my creature(usually high), drop the 4 mana minion instead of 5 and make him lose his clear "wasting" 1 mana that turn. Another example, you want to go ahead warrior in early turns, don't throw your best minions first, because he probably has something to deal with them.
5. Do "stupid" inefficient plays when you know, you can't win by playing right. This is the situation when most players are making mistake. Let's paint it to make it clear. You are tempo mage, playing against control, you've lost advantage. You have fireball in your hand and your opponent has 6/6 on the table and 10 hp as a warrior. Don't clear that minion and extend game by another turns, because you will lose anyways. Hit his face with fireball and count that another one will come to your hand next turn. This is like "last resort playing". Every time you are losing control of the game and you know you are not able to get it back, change your strategy to finish your opponent by some lucky draws. Count that you will have topdeck twice if it makes you win unconditionally.
6. Don't switch deck too often. All above comes from experience, you can't learn 10 decks in one month. Just learn basics of popular decks that you are encountering - how they play, what is their win condition, what are they likely to play on each turn, then choose ONE deck and polish your skills with it. By the time - your winratio will be getting higher.
7. Don't believe in "win button cards". There is no card, that playing it on specific turn is auto-win or rather auto-choose and best way. I am talking to you secret paladins :). Dropping a challenger on turn 6 is not always correct, same thing goes with Dr. Boom on 7. Remember the previous posts, analyze the game and try to make a play that you think is correct in a certain situation.
8. Don't play being distracted, focus on a game. Don't watch a sitcom on second screen, don't check facebook between the plays. I know that you are multitasking, I know that you are keeping up, I know that you have enough time to play your turn. But... there is something like intuition that basically comes from experience, when you are fully focused on a game, you subconsciously get good ideas and make correct plays.
9. Be critical. After won game, ask yourself a question - "did I really deserve to win that game?". Have you played everything properly or did you just have luck? Is there a space for improvement? After lost game - "did i do everything to win this one?". It is easier to lose, when you know that you've played everything correctly and your opponent just had luck. This means, this game is not won, but is positive. This time it is you, next time it will be your opponent.
I know that most of the examples are for many of you silly and most of the points may seem obvious but we are usually forgetting the basics. To summarize it - I will write last thought - Find the balance. The balance between intuition and probability. The balance between making "winning" and "non-losing" plays. The balance between knowledge and experience. The balance between try-harding to win and having fun. The balance between skill and rng.
Don't play efficiently, play what is correct!
That's the great summary saying it all. Thanks for sharing this...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Dead but dreaming
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hey guys,
So I have noticed a trend with all of my decks. I play at about rank 8 and can't progress now. The decks I'm using are;
Every single one of these decks gets a win rate that fluctuates between 48% to 52%. If I play 1000 games I will win 500 and lose 500... The deck I use seems to be irrelevant. I hardly even seem to move up or down from Rank 8.
I understand all of the threats that the current meta decks pose and I know how to mulligan against all classes. I think the trades I make are economical. I just have no idea how to progress now.
Hard to give you advice since the only info you've given us is your decks. One could say that you're not using a top tier deck but people have reached Legend with weird decks before.
If you got the coin, the Mercenaries get going. Vote for The Mercenary for CCC #3.
how much is the size of the sample?, maybe you are giving up after a really small amount of games with the same deck, and by small i mean 50 games with the same deck is still a small sample.
hey... lol... us server? i'm experiencing the same situation but i'm using just one deck~ bouncing in between rank8-1 and 8-5. need a lucky streak~~~
BBQ an egg?
The only two decks that work for me past Rank 10 are:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/436452-s24-legend-sigmas-max-impact-zoo-full-in-depth
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/385371-dr-1-85-win-rate-face-shaman
Perhaps you might want to focus on just one deck, perhaps Demon Zoo ( i guess Voidcaller/double doomguard/Mal'ganis is what you mean?) as it has some great match-ups against popular decks like Druid and seems to be the strongest of your decks in general. Try to get really comfortable with it and understand all its match-ups, your wincondition, your outs and the mulligan-process. This might help you marginally increase your climbin rate. (btw. i did the same here on EU, climbed with Malyrogue first, got stuck on rank 9, switched to Demon Midrange Zoo and went all the way up to rank 5 in one go)
it's the cancer!!
BBQ an egg?
It's probably a skill thing (not trying to be disrespectful). The higher you get, the better opponents you will face (usually), so if you find your winrate over a large sample is about 50% regardless of your deck, you've probably reached your current skill cap. Nothing to do but keep playing and practicing. You might not think there's something to improve, but there always is.
I hope this post doesn't come across as douchey, as that was not my intention. English is not my first language, so it can be hard to put my thought into words.
nice one blager~ points 1 & 7 i can so relate to them.
playing a burst warlock that could burst 12-20 without a board... so usually during turns 6/7 opponent will likely drop a mysterious/boom thinking it is ok to survive next turn with 11-19 life... and they continue to do it when i have board of 1-3 minions @@.
basically, i profit off mistakes using budget deck. i need get better reading, tend to try to play efficient @@
BBQ an egg?
Most video games are made rather easy even on the highest difficulty setting. However in competitive games like this you will face players who are not better because of their decks but because they play better than you.
For example Rise of the Tomb Raider has so many checkpoints that even the highest difficulty is rather forgiving. However when you lose a ranked Hearthstone match your rank gets punished. It's way different than for example Dark Souls series where you just repeatedly attempt to take down a challenging boss and it's enough to be considered "good player."
Thank you blager, so much and useful information!!
The biggest mistake intermediate players make when they play this game is that they tend to trade a bit too often when they should be going face. This tendency is a carryover from when players are first making the jump from beginner to intermediate play, when they learn the importance of board control and saving cards like arcane shot, frostbolt, arcane missiles for minion removal rather than random face damage. In this stage many people learn to control the board at all costs, and that eliminating your opponent's board every turn is the "smart play". The reality is that this is not always true. For instance, let's say you have a 5/5 on board and your opponent has a 2/2. Many intermediate players will think, "okay, I have the bigger minion, I should get value out of it by killing the smaller minion". However, more often than not, the resulting 5/3 minion will just be hit for 3 damage by another source, killing off the big minion before it even gets in any damage to the opponent hero. If the 5/5 minion had attacked face instead of killing the 2/2, usually it will be killed off by the same methods the next turn anyway, but you have already gotten an additional 5 HP worth of damage on your opponent, pressuring them to play more defensively the rest of the game.
Essentially, the moral of the story is that before you make a trade it's important to actually take a moment to consider "Is this trade favorable for me stat-wise? Do I need to kill this minion because of its powerful effect? Will killing this minion prevent my opponent from making a strong play next turn considering the cards in his deck type?" If the answer to all of these questions is no, or the trade is merely a wash for both sides, then why trade when you can get extra damage in and not be any worse off? Taking the time to actually ask these questions in the larger context of each specific match-up will elevate your game to the next level, as it will add a necessary aggression to your playstyle that will keep your opponent on their heels, forcing them to respond to YOUR minions.
"Hey Pal, Trade Prince Gallywix here!"
All Classes Golden - 11/5/2016
Dead but dreaming