Why are people so for nerfs? It's seemingly EVERY strong card in the game, people want it to get nerfed. Sure there are cards which are annoying to play against (Mysterious challenger, Druid combo), but there is nothing inherently OP about them. People are just salty that they keep losing to particular cards/decks because they don't know how to play against them. Like for example, Ancient of Lore. People have been calling for it's nerf cuz its "too OP". Just because it is a 4 5 5 body with the effect of arcane intellect, it doesn't meant that it needs to be nerfed. It's just a strong card.
The only time a card should be nerfed is if it is actually broken/abused, like warsong commander of the past. That card, and the former grim patron deck, punished YOU for playing minions. Does midrange druid? or Secret Pali? No they don't. If you keep a good board agains them, you'll be fine.
People need to stop complaining that oh this card/that deck should be nerfed. There is nothing in the game now which can't be beat, and there is nothing which is broken like warsong commander was.
For inexperienced players, it can seem that certain plays are unfair. The game takes a long time to learn and people don't like to look in the mirror to figure out what the problem is. I have the cards, I built the deck, I don't win, please fix the game - is a prevailing mentality among the novice crowd. This is not to say some things are not unbalanced, but threads calling for nerf of BGH, Justicar, and (seriously?) Shield Slam are just drivel by people who would be better served spending more time learning how to play and spending less time grousing on the forums.
I agree, back in the day I literally had an 89% win rate with Patron Warrior. It was basically the only thing played, there was absolutely now way to stop it, and it broke the game for an entire season. That being said I think they went too far with nerfing Warsong Commander. I think it should have been changed to "Minions with 2 or less attack have Charge" because then it would still work with my Frothing Berserker combo.
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The only time a card should be nerfed is if it is actually broken/abused, like warsong commander of the past. That card, and the former grim patron deck, punished YOU for playing minions. Does midrange druid? or Secret Pali? No they don't. If you keep a good board agains them, you'll be fine.
Have you never played against Druid ever? Unless you have multiple taunts, Druid doesn't give a fuck about your board. You can have a full board of 8/8 minions but if you're at 14 or less health, lol gg
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I agree, back in the day I literally had an 89% win rate with Patron Warrior. It was basically the only thing played, there was absolutely now way to stop it, and it broke the game for an entire season. That being said I think they went too far with nerfing Warsong Commander. I think it should have been changed to "Minions with 2 or less attack have Charge" because then it would still work with my Frothing Berserker combo.
I do think they went too far, but in the sense that it should cost 2, not 3. And... maybe give charge minions +2 instead.
This was said at the time, but the reason they didn't want it to give charge anymore was because it limiting design space.
Also, the patrons weren't the problem, it was the Frothing, so... no.
Why are people so for nerfs? It's seemingly EVERY strong card in the game, people want it to get nerfed. Sure there are cards which are annoying to play against (Mysterious challenger, Druid combo), but there is nothing inherently OP about them. People are just salty that they keep losing to particular cards/decks because they don't know how to play against them. Like for example, Ancient of Lore. People have been calling for it's nerf cuz its "too OP". Just because it is a 4 5 5 body with the effect of arcane intellect, it doesn't meant that it needs to be nerfed. It's just a strong card.
The only time a card should be nerfed is if it is actually broken/abused, like warsong commander of the past. That card, and the former grim patron deck, punished YOU for playing minions. Does midrange druid? or Secret Pali? No they don't. If you keep a good board agains them, you'll be fine.
People need to stop complaining that oh this card/that deck should be nerfed. There is nothing in the game now which can't be beat, and there is nothing which is broken like warsong commander was.
I've never heard anyone saying how Ancient of Lore is OP. I was surprised when Ben Brode announced they'll be reviewing the card. It's a pretty decent card, and help Druids a lot. The problem with Midrange Druid, heck, any Druid is the heavy dependence on Force of Nature and Savage Roar combo. It stagnates the class and it avoids Druids from getting any good new cards since most of their cards are already amazing. It's also a pretty cheap way to kill someone. All Ancient of Lore does is make it more likely to survive and draw into the combo, but that's it.
Asking for nerfs isn't a bad thing, but sometimes some people just doesn't know there are ways to deal with it.
The calls for the Druid Combo nerf currently is because it's so strong in the classic set, ALL of your Druid decks are going to include that combo as a win condition if it's left in the current state. In the Curse Trials, removing GvG, you can see that almost all of the participants brought in a Druid Deck, along with some other classes - feels a bit similar to the Grim Patron meta, no?
Mysterious Challenger isn't as bad - classes that do not have good removal will suffer from the buffs unfortunately.
Warsong Commander was definitely the right card to nerf in the Patron set - I just don't like how they handled the nerf for it to be a useless card in the Warrior Arsenal though. At least give it a buff in stats or something!
Patron warped the metagame around it so hardly that it was diminished mostly as patron warrior and the 2 decks that had a 60+% wr against it. Secret Pally is nowhere around it.
That doesn't mean Mysterious Challenger isn't overpowered...
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Why are people so for nerfs? It's seemingly EVERY strong card in the game, people want it to get nerfed. Sure there are cards which are annoying to play against (Mysterious challenger, Druid combo), but there is nothing inherently OP about them. People are just salty that they keep losing to particular cards/decks because they don't know how to play against them. Like for example, Ancient of Lore. People have been calling for it's nerf cuz its "too OP". Just because it is a 4 5 5 body with the effect of arcane intellect, it doesn't meant that it needs to be nerfed. It's just a strong card.
The only time a card should be nerfed is if it is actually broken/abused, like warsong commander of the past. That card, and the former grim patron deck, punished YOU for playing minions. Does midrange druid? or Secret Pali? No they don't. If you keep a good board agains them, you'll be fine.
People need to stop complaining that oh this card/that deck should be nerfed. There is nothing in the game now which can't be beat, and there is nothing which is broken like warsong commander was.
I've never heard anyone saying how Ancient of Lore is OP. I was surprised when Ben Brode announced they'll be reviewing the card. It's a pretty decent card, and help Druids a lot. The problem with Midrange Druid, heck, any Druid is the heavy dependence on Force of Nature and Savage Roar combo. It stagnates the class and it avoids Druids from getting any good new cards since most of their cards are already amazing. It's also a pretty cheap way to kill someone. All Ancient of Lore does is make it more likely to survive and draw into the combo, but that's it.
Asking for nerfs isn't a bad thing, but sometimes some people just doesn't know there are ways to deal with it.
I agree with you, The problem with Ancient of Lore is that it helps get the combo every single game. Without the combo I doubt it is OP, strong ofc but not OP. I would hate to see my favorite card nerfed when it is not yet deserved!
In reply to the topic of why people appear to be "nerf hungry" a lot, I think that is mostly confirmation bias in forums. Essentially the people that want something, post something about, other people chime in and then it appears that it's more prevalent than it is.
As for "why nerf?" We'll, there can sometimes be a case made for breaking up stuff that is OP, I think that there is really just a greater tendency of people to want Blizzard to do something, as opposed to themselves. There are counters to lots of combos and seemingly "OP" situations. Secret Paladin forces people to play around secrets... it's a lot of work, and sometimes you can only minimize the impact of the secrets, but you can do it. Wombo-Combo druid is the same way - we know that turn 9 if we have 14 health the game is probably over... so drop Loatheb on the previous turn, heal out of lethal... the point is don't just lay there and do nothing and turn to Blizzard saying, "you need to change this" because you refuse to take your opponent's strategy into account.
If this were Chess, no one would be asking to nerf the Queen, mostly because Chess has had nearly a millenia of strategy developed to counter "OP" situations. Hearthstone already has counters to every play that you could make, there are seldom cards that are so OP that they deserve to be nerfed, so let's leave that to the people who are designing future cards.
the propper nerf would ahve been charge fo minions for as long as they have 3 attack. making patrons charge while they re not 5/2 or sth and berserker wouln't able to OTK ppl. the OTKof berserker was the sole reason patron got nerfed. btw. the actual strength of patron was intournaments, not in ladder. people on ladder were usually to bad to play it, that s why patron was never th most played legendary deck EVER. and NEVER had the best winrates on ladder at any time.
And here i come back to MC and why people call for nerfs. as mentioned above there a re people who don't know how to playaround certain things and as they all think that they are sogood players, the cards must be unfair. MC is something completely different. YES, you can win with every single deck vs MC, BUT. you basically need to drop something perfect on curve to keep up with him for about the first 5 turns, if you cannot you re gettingouttempd so hard. THAT is the reason why MC needs to be nerfed. because it has in 90% of the games nothing to do with how good ou play against it, but how luckily youdraw to keep up with the huge tempoplays every single turn. And I m not talking about secretpaladin has drawluck and hasthe perfct hand to curve out perfectly, he naturaely does by having cheap spells and minions and as soons you want to have bigger minios you play MC so all the cheap spells from your deck are gone and you keep on drawing big drops.
Confirmation bias is actually when somebody researches a topic and only finds or finds mostly evidence to back up their already held beliefs. What you mean is the group behavior to congregate as like opinions so mostly people who think things should be nerfed post on forums that have that theme.
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Patron warped the metagame around it so hardly that it was diminished mostly as patron warrior and the 2 decks that had a 60+% wr against it. Secret Pally is nowhere around it.
That doesn't mean Mysterious Challenger isn't overpowered...
Patron had around a general winrate that is ~10% higher than Secret Paladin nowadays. There are also MULTIPLE decks that can counter Secret Paladin HARD or at least quite good:
Midrange Paladin Control Priest Druid Combo + especially Aggro Freeze Mage Face Shaman
While Patron counterdeck was: Handlock
And even there Patron had a winrate around 30-40%. A good Patron Warrior had a winrate around 60-70% or more in general, that's insane.
Sorry, Secret Paladin is maybe one of the strongest decks out there, but compared to Patron pre-nerf he's nothing.
Why are people so for nerfs? It's seemingly EVERY strong card in the game, people want it to get nerfed. Sure there are cards which are annoying to play against (Mysterious challenger, Druid combo), but there is nothing inherently OP about them. People are just salty that they keep losing to particular cards/decks because they don't know how to play against them. Like for example, Ancient of Lore. People have been calling for it's nerf cuz its "too OP". Just because it is a 4 5 5 body with the effect of arcane intellect, it doesn't meant that it needs to be nerfed. It's just a strong card.
The only time a card should be nerfed is if it is actually broken/abused, like warsong commander of the past. That card, and the former grim patron deck, punished YOU for playing minions. Does midrange druid? or Secret Pali? No they don't. If you keep a good board agains them, you'll be fine.
People need to stop complaining that oh this card/that deck should be nerfed. There is nothing in the game now which can't be beat, and there is nothing which is broken like warsong commander was.
you can play with your balanced strong cards in wild. nerfs will happen either you like it or not and standard will happen even you like it or not.
so lets stop the old bullshit "these cards are not broken you are noobs" attitude. we got it that youre a broken deck lover you dont have to make a thread about it
Your statistics are wrong. I don t know where you have them from. Patron Never had a good winrate on ladder. Only in tournaments and high legend ist was realy good. In the Rest, Even Lower legend it didn't have A good winrate at all. Because it was so hard to Play. Mc on the other Hand is a piece of cake and is bringing ppl to legend WHO didn't Even make it past Rank 10. and Most Are Not Even denieing it.
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Why are people so for nerfs? It's seemingly EVERY strong card in the game, people want it to get nerfed. Sure there are cards which are annoying to play against (Mysterious challenger, Druid combo), but there is nothing inherently OP about them. People are just salty that they keep losing to particular cards/decks because they don't know how to play against them. Like for example, Ancient of Lore. People have been calling for it's nerf cuz its "too OP". Just because it is a 4 5 5 body with the effect of arcane intellect, it doesn't meant that it needs to be nerfed. It's just a strong card.
The only time a card should be nerfed is if it is actually broken/abused, like warsong commander of the past. That card, and the former grim patron deck, punished YOU for playing minions. Does midrange druid? or Secret Pali? No they don't. If you keep a good board agains them, you'll be fine.
People need to stop complaining that oh this card/that deck should be nerfed. There is nothing in the game now which can't be beat, and there is nothing which is broken like warsong commander was.
So Patron was Broken but Mysterious Challenger is not?
I agree that people call for nerfs way to often, but if you don't think that MC is overpowered you are just wrong.
unbalanced cards make for a stale and boring meta (Dr. Boom) in every deck? But at least it is a neutral so everyone can play it.
For inexperienced players, it can seem that certain plays are unfair. The game takes a long time to learn and people don't like to look in the mirror to figure out what the problem is. I have the cards, I built the deck, I don't win, please fix the game - is a prevailing mentality among the novice crowd. This is not to say some things are not unbalanced, but threads calling for nerf of BGH, Justicar, and (seriously?) Shield Slam are just drivel by people who would be better served spending more time learning how to play and spending less time grousing on the forums.
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I agree, back in the day I literally had an 89% win rate with Patron Warrior. It was basically the only thing played, there was absolutely now way to stop it, and it broke the game for an entire season. That being said I think they went too far with nerfing Warsong Commander. I think it should have been changed to "Minions with 2 or less attack have Charge" because then it would still work with my Frothing Berserker combo.
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Asking for nerfs isn't a bad thing, but sometimes some people just doesn't know there are ways to deal with it.
Jade Serpent guides you.
Still doesn't PUNISH you for playing minions, like patron did. And as a golden druid main player, i am fairly versed in Druid.
The calls for the Druid Combo nerf currently is because it's so strong in the classic set, ALL of your Druid decks are going to include that combo as a win condition if it's left in the current state. In the Curse Trials, removing GvG, you can see that almost all of the participants brought in a Druid Deck, along with some other classes - feels a bit similar to the Grim Patron meta, no?
Mysterious Challenger isn't as bad - classes that do not have good removal will suffer from the buffs unfortunately.
Warsong Commander was definitely the right card to nerf in the Patron set - I just don't like how they handled the nerf for it to be a useless card in the Warrior Arsenal though. At least give it a buff in stats or something!
Patron more often than not led to a 1 turn kill FROM you having a full board.
Mysterious challenger, sure he makes a christmas tree, but you have time to react to it. Play it smartly with some luck you'll be fine.
On an empty board, he is not even that big of a deal.
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In reply to the topic of why people appear to be "nerf hungry" a lot, I think that is mostly confirmation bias in forums. Essentially the people that want something, post something about, other people chime in and then it appears that it's more prevalent than it is.
As for "why nerf?" We'll, there can sometimes be a case made for breaking up stuff that is OP, I think that there is really just a greater tendency of people to want Blizzard to do something, as opposed to themselves. There are counters to lots of combos and seemingly "OP" situations. Secret Paladin forces people to play around secrets... it's a lot of work, and sometimes you can only minimize the impact of the secrets, but you can do it. Wombo-Combo druid is the same way - we know that turn 9 if we have 14 health the game is probably over... so drop Loatheb on the previous turn, heal out of lethal... the point is don't just lay there and do nothing and turn to Blizzard saying, "you need to change this" because you refuse to take your opponent's strategy into account.
If this were Chess, no one would be asking to nerf the Queen, mostly because Chess has had nearly a millenia of strategy developed to counter "OP" situations. Hearthstone already has counters to every play that you could make, there are seldom cards that are so OP that they deserve to be nerfed, so let's leave that to the people who are designing future cards.
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the propper nerf would ahve been charge fo minions for as long as they have 3 attack. making patrons charge while they re not 5/2 or sth and berserker wouln't able to OTK ppl. the OTKof berserker was the sole reason patron got nerfed. btw. the actual strength of patron was intournaments, not in ladder. people on ladder were usually to bad to play it, that s why patron was never th most played legendary deck EVER. and NEVER had the best winrates on ladder at any time.
And here i come back to MC and why people call for nerfs. as mentioned above there a re people who don't know how to playaround certain things and as they all think that they are sogood players, the cards must be unfair. MC is something completely different. YES, you can win with every single deck vs MC, BUT. you basically need to drop something perfect on curve to keep up with him for about the first 5 turns, if you cannot you re gettingouttempd so hard. THAT is the reason why MC needs to be nerfed. because it has in 90% of the games nothing to do with how good ou play against it, but how luckily youdraw to keep up with the huge tempoplays every single turn. And I m not talking about secretpaladin has drawluck and hasthe perfct hand to curve out perfectly, he naturaely does by having cheap spells and minions and as soons you want to have bigger minios you play MC so all the cheap spells from your deck are gone and you keep on drawing big drops.
Confirmation bias is actually when somebody researches a topic and only finds or finds mostly evidence to back up their already held beliefs. What you mean is the group behavior to congregate as like opinions so mostly people who think things should be nerfed post on forums that have that theme.
When you taunt your opponent and spam emotes, RNJesus get's angry:
RNJesus' Wrath!!!
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Your statistics are wrong. I don t know where you have them from. Patron Never had a good winrate on ladder. Only in tournaments and high legend ist was realy good. In the Rest, Even Lower legend it didn't have A good winrate at all. Because it was so hard to Play. Mc on the other Hand is a piece of cake and is bringing ppl to legend WHO didn't Even make it past Rank 10. and Most Are Not Even denieing it.