So, I have this thing...When playing a game I allways play it out. Even under desperate situations when I know one or two draws in I will lose the game I feel that I owe it to my venerable opponent to play to the bitter end. A personal quirk, and I recognize the time value of play, but I do at times think that players fold too soon. Thoughts?
I sort of agree. If I went to play the match, I went to win with my all so I don't concede until it's lethal on the board.
Well, it's also through that that I can get those exceptional comebacks that make the match epic and stuff. And maybe the opponent might just miss lethal too, who knows.
Yes, sometimes players BM and miss lethal, or sometimes they dc or just inexplicably concede when they have it. There are definitely reasons to play it out.
With that said...usually I will concede when the opponent has lethal on board and there's no way for me to stop it. But I'm not the sort who races to hit concede before the death blow is dealt if the opponent shows lethal on his/her turn. Seems weird how some people are so averse to seeing their portraits blow up.
Seems weird how some people are so averse to seeing their portraits blow up.
I personally just want to move onto my next game, or whatever I need to do after that match. I will wait out a game if my opponent needs a card from hand for lethal, since it seems 9 times out of 10 when someone needs to have a certain card in hand to win, they'll bluff and try to get the other person to concede by hovering a card. I had someone hover a card for their full turn, then concede themselves as the rope was about to burn out.
Well, that depends on the deck. I think many players that use a deck tracker will concede once they know they don't have enough reach or recovery left to take the game.
A concede could look 'early' from your perspective, but the opponent may know their deck doesn't have what is needed to recover. I think a common example is decks cutting AoE or taunts in exchange for stronger aggression. The most common variations of the deck could recover, but the variant your opponent is running may have cut some of those cards.
It's like when I play vs zoo and there's a board full of 7 pieces of crap, and I don't run consecrates. My opponent probably plays all slow and safe thinking consecrate is coming, I go ahead and concede because my deck has no consecrate.
The only things that count as bad manners in Hearthstone are:
Doing things to intentionally annoy people (e.g., spamming emotes, sarcastic emotes)
Intentionally wasting people's time (e.g., roping for no reason, playing more cards than needed to win, walking away from a loss rather than conceding)
No one owes you a fight to the death. No one owes you the satisfaction of striking the killing blow. There is no social contract beyond that which is enforceable by the software. This is why you can Squelch, and why there is a 75-second time limit on turns. (In other words, the most egregious displays of bad manners are those that force the software to arbitrate the infraction.)
In effect, your expectation that someone will endure an obviously losing game is a violation of the second bullet. We both know I'm going to lose (or at least I do), so it's actually somewhat self-centered and rude of you to want me to sit through the decidedly un-fun experience of waiting for you to finish me off. Not only are you wasting my time, but you are doing so in an unpleasant way.
(It is worth noting that in professional bridge, it is quite commonplace for a player to declare a "lay-down" victory. If you can show your hand and prove that your opponents cannot win any more tricks, it is considered good form to do so.)
Likewise, if you are obviously losing in Hearthstone, I gain no joy from going through the motions, or from watching your feeble death throes. I would much prefer that you concede and let me get on with my life. You should not assume you are doing me any favors by forcing me to savor every moment of my impending victory.
I'm not saying you should start conceding -- that is your decision. But I am suggesting you should accept the win gracefully when your opponent concedes. The only thing you will ever gain by projecting your arbitrary code of conduct on others is your own disappointment.
At this point I consider finishing games quickly a matter of skill and good habits, not so much etiquette. When you have a quick, easy lethal, just execute it any move on. There a tons of Trolden videos where some idiot had to play his hand and threw away lethal. The guy who popped a Sneed's into Mogor is the most famous, but it could be as simple as play minion - knife juggle - hit boombot - kill minion you needed for lethal.
Rather than develop a Hearthstone habit that will occasionally lose games when you don't pay attention, the smart thing to do is avoiding that habit in the first place.
It's not like you impress anybody anyway. You won a game with mana left on your turn and extra cards in hand. Big deal. BMing always looks like you're 10 and your brother / daddy / uncle let you play for the first time.
As for not conceding - eh, I don't care either way. I usually play fast decks anyway so those extra seconds don't matter much.
When I'm about to win (100% sure, lethal on board etc) I usually play all cards I can just to let the opponent know what I had, not as BM...
It's more like when you play against someone and keep wondering, "did they have that card?", "should I've really played like this", "would they be able to win had I done that" kind of stuff. I also like myself to know what my opponents had in hand if they had one or two cards when I lose.
Imo concede is never an option, unless you play non-ranked maybe. i have won quite a few games with just taking my time, as my opponent DCed next turn. Bad for him, but you know - win is a win.
At the beginning of the game, emote greetings, squelch (sadly I sometimes forget).
If winning, play lethal immediately. If and only if opponent emotes well played, emote well played back.
[Optional] If winning due to ridiculous RNG, show that I have lethal, emote well played, concede.
If my opponent has obvious lethal on board: emote well played, concede.
It's just sad that 80% of players has to be dicks (or idiots?), either roping or emote spamming into lethal, playing out their whole hand, emote spamming through the game, emoting well played when I either played poorly or lost due to bad draw, etc.
Nah, I don't mind it at all. There are some games that are just pointless to play out - you're gonna lose no matter what. Better to just get it over with quickly and move on.
At the beginning of the game, emote greetings, squelch (sadly I sometimes forget).
If winning, play lethal immediately. If and only if opponent emotes well played, emote well played back.
[Optional] If winning due to ridiculous RNG, show that I have lethal, emote well played, concede.
If my opponent has obvious lethal on board: emote well played, concede.
It's just sad that 80% of players has to be dicks (or idiots?), either roping or emote spamming into lethal, playing out their whole hand, emote spamming through the game, emoting well played when I either played poorly or lost due to bad draw, etc.
emoting well played back kinda sounds like BM. I mean the reason they lost in the first place is probably from not playing well...
I never emote well played back if someone emotes well played to me. Well played isn't really the same as gg.
One point I don't see mentioned: if you concede the moment the opponent has enough resources for lethal, you show the opponent that you are paying attention to his plays (instead of watching youtube and waiting for the bell that signals your turn), that you treat this game as unique and not blindly follow a guide (mulligan for x cards, play misterious challenger on turn 6 always, etc), and that you can analyze all options and ramifications of the game in the short time an animation takes to play (a sign of skill as I see it).
It's a good habit to use the opponent's time to think of ways you would answer whatever he is playing. Even if the situation changes (he plays another card that makes your ideas no longer valid), is never lost time: you would wait anyway, and it helps you stay sharp (ask any chess player). Your brain shouldn't turn off because you aren't allowed to touch anything on the board.
Also, I see quickly conceding mid-turn as an honorable death in case of bad RNG. Maybe you lost, but at least you can combine know information (hand and board), unknown information (opponents hands) and max-min values to RNG to conclude in less than a second that you lost. In short, showing the abstract thinking required for that quick surrender, specially in the most demoralizing games, has my respect.
So, I have this thing...When playing a game I allways play it out. Even under desperate situations when I know one or two draws in I will lose the game I feel that I owe it to my venerable opponent to play to the bitter end. A personal quirk, and I recognize the time value of play, but I do at times think that players fold too soon. Thoughts?
I sort of agree. If I went to play the match, I went to win with my all so I don't concede until it's lethal on the board.
Well, it's also through that that I can get those exceptional comebacks that make the match epic and stuff. And maybe the opponent might just miss lethal too, who knows.
Its interesting, my son is an accomplished player, yet I allways admonish him for baling early..one never knows..
Yes, sometimes players BM and miss lethal, or sometimes they dc or just inexplicably concede when they have it. There are definitely reasons to play it out.
With that said...usually I will concede when the opponent has lethal on board and there's no way for me to stop it. But I'm not the sort who races to hit concede before the death blow is dealt if the opponent shows lethal on his/her turn. Seems weird how some people are so averse to seeing their portraits blow up.
I will wait out a game if my opponent needs a card from hand for lethal, since it seems 9 times out of 10 when someone needs to have a certain card in hand to win, they'll bluff and try to get the other person to concede by hovering a card. I had someone hover a card for their full turn, then concede themselves as the rope was about to burn out.
Well, that depends on the deck. I think many players that use a deck tracker will concede once they know they don't have enough reach or recovery left to take the game.
A concede could look 'early' from your perspective, but the opponent may know their deck doesn't have what is needed to recover. I think a common example is decks cutting AoE or taunts in exchange for stronger aggression. The most common variations of the deck could recover, but the variant your opponent is running may have cut some of those cards.
It's like when I play vs zoo and there's a board full of 7 pieces of crap, and I don't run consecrates. My opponent probably plays all slow and safe thinking consecrate is coming, I go ahead and concede because my deck has no consecrate.
This is absolutely not an etiquette issue.
The only things that count as bad manners in Hearthstone are:
No one owes you a fight to the death. No one owes you the satisfaction of striking the killing blow. There is no social contract beyond that which is enforceable by the software. This is why you can Squelch, and why there is a 75-second time limit on turns. (In other words, the most egregious displays of bad manners are those that force the software to arbitrate the infraction.)
In effect, your expectation that someone will endure an obviously losing game is a violation of the second bullet. We both know I'm going to lose (or at least I do), so it's actually somewhat self-centered and rude of you to want me to sit through the decidedly un-fun experience of waiting for you to finish me off. Not only are you wasting my time, but you are doing so in an unpleasant way.
(It is worth noting that in professional bridge, it is quite commonplace for a player to declare a "lay-down" victory. If you can show your hand and prove that your opponents cannot win any more tricks, it is considered good form to do so.)
Likewise, if you are obviously losing in Hearthstone, I gain no joy from going through the motions, or from watching your feeble death throes. I would much prefer that you concede and let me get on with my life. You should not assume you are doing me any favors by forcing me to savor every moment of my impending victory.
I'm not saying you should start conceding -- that is your decision. But I am suggesting you should accept the win gracefully when your opponent concedes. The only thing you will ever gain by projecting your arbitrary code of conduct on others is your own disappointment.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
At this point I consider finishing games quickly a matter of skill and good habits, not so much etiquette. When you have a quick, easy lethal, just execute it any move on. There a tons of Trolden videos where some idiot had to play his hand and threw away lethal. The guy who popped a Sneed's into Mogor is the most famous, but it could be as simple as play minion - knife juggle - hit boombot - kill minion you needed for lethal.
Rather than develop a Hearthstone habit that will occasionally lose games when you don't pay attention, the smart thing to do is avoiding that habit in the first place.
It's not like you impress anybody anyway. You won a game with mana left on your turn and extra cards in hand. Big deal. BMing always looks like you're 10 and your brother / daddy / uncle let you play for the first time.
As for not conceding - eh, I don't care either way. I usually play fast decks anyway so those extra seconds don't matter much.
When I'm about to win (100% sure, lethal on board etc) I usually play all cards I can just to let the opponent know what I had, not as BM...
It's more like when you play against someone and keep wondering, "did they have that card?", "should I've really played like this", "would they be able to win had I done that" kind of stuff. I also like myself to know what my opponents had in hand if they had one or two cards when I lose.
Imo concede is never an option, unless you play non-ranked maybe. i have won quite a few games with just taking my time, as my opponent DCed next turn. Bad for him, but you know - win is a win.
Here's my take:
It's just sad that 80% of players has to be dicks (or idiots?), either roping or emote spamming into lethal, playing out their whole hand, emote spamming through the game, emoting well played when I either played poorly or lost due to bad draw, etc.
I don't mind if people concede, the whole business of going through the motions of those final blows is a bit akward.
Nah, I don't mind it at all. There are some games that are just pointless to play out - you're gonna lose no matter what. Better to just get it over with quickly and move on.
Missing lethal since June 2015.
Why waste time?
"Put your face in the light!" - Tirion Fordring
One point I don't see mentioned: if you concede the moment the opponent has enough resources for lethal, you show the opponent that you are paying attention to his plays (instead of watching youtube and waiting for the bell that signals your turn), that you treat this game as unique and not blindly follow a guide (mulligan for x cards, play misterious challenger on turn 6 always, etc), and that you can analyze all options and ramifications of the game in the short time an animation takes to play (a sign of skill as I see it).
It's a good habit to use the opponent's time to think of ways you would answer whatever he is playing. Even if the situation changes (he plays another card that makes your ideas no longer valid), is never lost time: you would wait anyway, and it helps you stay sharp (ask any chess player). Your brain shouldn't turn off because you aren't allowed to touch anything on the board.
Also, I see quickly conceding mid-turn as an honorable death in case of bad RNG. Maybe you lost, but at least you can combine know information (hand and board), unknown information (opponents hands) and max-min values to RNG to conclude in less than a second that you lost. In short, showing the abstract thinking required for that quick surrender, specially in the most demoralizing games, has my respect.