Hello everybody! I'm Asylum, and I'll be co-organizing this competition alongside DialM4Murloc. This topic is for discussion of the Class Design Competition. To make sure that everything runs smoothly, we need to reserve the Submission Topic for submissions only. Everything else goes here. What is everything else, you might ask?
Rules or Process. Do you have a question about the competition's process? Do you need clarification about this week's entry format? Are you not sure whether your entry adhered to the rules? Ask here!
Feedback or Ideas. Do you have some ideas you'd like to run by others before settling on one? Do you need help balancing or wording your hero power or example cards? Do you need help finding art that will fit your hero? Or do you just want feedback from the community on your entry? You're in the right place! Remember, although you are allowed to make minor tweaks to your entry after you've submitted it, you're only allowed one submission per week, so make sure that you've settled on your card for sure beforehand.
Discussion! Do you have thoughts on other people's heroes? Are there directions you don't like that you're seeing too many people take? Or directions you'd like to see more people take? Would you like to help others and contribute to a greater community understanding of Hearthstone card design and balance? This is where you want to be!
WARNING:
Please refrain from the following...
Advertising Your Entry. Please don't pop in here just to advertise your hero only to never be heard from again. This includes only asking short, generic, or insincere questions like "Thoughts?" or "Do you think this is balanced?". Yes, getting feedback on your hero is one of the purposes of this topic, but we're not just here for other people to help you. We're here for you all to help each other. 12 hours after this competition begins, there should be plenty of other posts here for you to give specific feedback or for you to comment on a trend. If you post your hero for feedback after this time and do not also offer some form of substantial commentary, critique, or praise of others' work, you may find your post deleted.
Plagiarism. Many people post their ideas here before finalizing them in the submission topic. Directly plagiarizing those ideas to post in the submission topic yourself is absolutely not acceptable. However, as we said in the submission topic, the design space for Hero Powers is relatively narrow, especially with us requiring that your Hero Powers cost (2) Mana just like the real ones, so we are not going to be able to be militant about policing similar or even identical Hero Powers.
One Final Note...
In case you were wondering, the rule about no Death Knight or Monks? You have me specifically to blame for that. Some of you may be wondering, though, what the heck you can do for classes when you can't use these. Well, it wouldn't be fair of me to restrict you from those choices without pointing you towards alternatives. Without getting too specific... Class isn't the only way that characters differentiate themselves in the Warcraft universe. Off of the top of my head, there are also Professions and Races (and not just the playable ones). There are tons of other fantasy RPGs out there, and a lot of them have thematically coherent Classes distinct but not too far removed from what we see in the Warcraft universe. If you're feeling up to a good challenge, consider looking for inspiration from RPGs outside of Warcraft's high fantasy genre.
So, without further ado, have fun and get creating!
I have let you all down by not submitting lots of Murloc related things in the WDC, I hope you can forgive me after this mock entry :P This is for me to have some fun and to inspire you guys. Even though it may be hard to come up with something it's still possible! Why not make a Murloc class yourself? ;)
Tribal Leader
So, how would this class work? I've actually never played WoW, but as far as I understand Murlocs will try and gang up on their enemy/enemies and overwhelm them, which will lead to Murlocs becoming the winners of the fights! Unfortunately I think Hearthstone has failed with this and Murlocs are just a worse, more gimmicky face-variant compared to Face Hunter. With this class I want to make Murlocs feel closer to the Murlocs in WoW and focus mostly on minions and not spells. However it would have a few weapons. I have identified a few major problems with Murlocs:
Too reliant on good card draw and that the cards keep on coming as you will empty your hand quickly
So, how can I fix these problems? Unfortunately I will only post three cards here but they will hopefully at least give you some kind of picture of what I'm aiming at.
This Hero Power would allow better trading as you can get +2 Attack which can make a big difference in the end. Getting an Abusive Sergeant effect when you need it could really improve Murlocs' viability. But the balance of this Hero Power then? Well, you have to use it on a Murloc which means that your options are limited which reduces the HP's worth. Also it's only for this turn and your own Hero won't gain anything from it like for example Druids does (+1 Armor). If you have no board then this HP is most likely useless.
CARD DRAW! Murloc decks card draw outside of Warlock variants are often quite unstable. You can't really count on it. However with this card you are going to draw at least three cards but probably more! As the card would be minion based you are likely to draw an additional 1-2 cards which would greatly help. Is it unbalanced? Compared to Nourish I think it's fine as you don't have the versatilty Nourish has but instead have a probable bonus of extra card draw.
BUFFS! Murlocs need buffs to work. Murlocs without the Murloc Warleader(s) are usually very tame and can't do alot. Coldlight Seers and Grimscale Oracles help some but not enough. Therefor Murlocs need more cards that buff them. So, if I complete this class you can expect cards with Attack buffs, Health buffs, protection buffs etc! Murlocs really need some form of protection vs AoE that is balanced but good enough at the same time.
PROTECTION! A boring, simple card but it's really something that is needed. How else would you protect your Warleaders, Murk-Eye etc? Murlocs actually don't have a single taunt card which they are in desperate need of. They can't really use a Taunt without the Murloc synergy as Murlocs are so heavily dependant on its synergy to make themselves work.
I hope you enjoyed my class! It's not perfect but as I'm not participating in this competition, perfect is not needed IMO :P I'm thinking of a special keyword for the class which would be based of Murlocs swarming capabilities. This keyword would be used to snowball out of control because I would want this class to be able to punish overly slow decks, but at the same time not be too aggroish. Wish me luck!
Reminder: Existing cards like Flesheating Ghoul and Kel'Thuzad among many others, will also receive the Undead tag. See my Phase I post linked at the top for a detailed list.
3 Card Examples
Keep in mind that these are supposed to be the BASIC set (no class has overly fancy basic cards). That means they aren't the most interesting cards and lack most of the Undead and Hero Power synergy. I already mapped these out and they will be a lot more unique. Many of them will come with the CLASSIC set. I assure you, you won't be disappointed.
A very straight forward, basic card. It mimics the cannibalize ability of abominations in WC3, which heals them by eating fallen units. It's a strong anti aggression card and can trade efficiently due to its effect.
Dark Ritual allows to make otherwise impossible combos at the sacrifice of a minion. It opens up vast possibilities and brings a unique dynamic to the class in form of a simple spell. For balance reasons you can't exceed your current maximum amount, meaning that you can only REFILL your Mana Crystals. There will be a few more spells and minions that use the sacrifice mechanism as a means to generate value in the classic set.
Crypt Fiend is a versatile card that can be used on high threat minions to freeze them, give an enemy priority target taunt so you can attack it despite another taunt on the field or simply giving your own card taunt. It works similar to the Crypt Fiend's ability "Web" from WC3, which makes an enemy air grounded so it can be attacked by melee units (give it taunt so it can't hide behind other taunts) and unable to move (freeze).
See the rest of the cards by opening the spoiler:
Frenzied Ghoul is the classes 1 drop. Nothing spectacular, but due to the Undead synergy, that will be added in the CLASSIC set and beyond, it'll serve a purpose throughout the entire game. Ghouls in WC3 are the basic starting unit, which can be upgraded with "Ghoul Frenzy", which makes them move and attack faster, hence the charge effect.
Meat Wagon is the only direct Undead synergy card in the BASIC set, but it is one of the most important, so I chose to include it into the basic set, as it provides much tempo on a decent body. It will be possible to build an own Undead themed deck, with Meat Wagon as one of the key cards. Even in decks without other Undeads it has direct synergy with the Hero Power, which is almost reason alone to play it.
Frost Armor is a simple heal that provides a strong tool against face and aggro decks and can help to catch up if you are behind, if your opponent rushes you.
Sleep is a very cheap "soft removal", that temporarily eliminates a threat. As a trade off, the effect can be broken by using damaging cards and abilities on it. Inspired by WC3's Dreadlord skill of the same name.
Carrion Swarm is this classes spell damage removal ala Darkbomb and Frostbolt. The class will be more focused on using minions in one way or the other, to deal with enemy minions, so it's priced a bit higher. The utility effect won't play a role often, but it can be used to set up lethal in some occasions.
Frost Explosion is meant to be not a straight AoE and somewhat situational to use. The class will have access to broader and more unique AoEs in the CLASSIC set. Stay tuned for those.
Vampiric Aura turns a normal minion into a high priority target. The value depends highly on the attack of the minion, so it is more of a mid and late game card. Due to balance reasons it will only trigger when the minion attacks, not when it is attacked. Inspiration was WC3's Dread Lord ability "Vampiric Aura", which regenerates health whenever he attacks.
I don't have anything fleshed out enough to submit for phase 1 just yet, but I was thinking something like a pet battle class, a minion/beast focused midrange class, thinking about bringing something like the fatality keyword from season of wdc.
Very fun Idea, maybe after this one it could be design an adventure encounter, not a full adventure just one boss.
Does the hero, cards and stuff have to do something with Heroes of Warcraft?
Lore-friendliness is encouraged but is not a requirement to enter or advance in the competition. It will be up to voters to decide how much they care about it, or up to you to convince them one way or the other.
This is addressed in the Q&A section of the Submission topic, as I expected it might come up. Normally when we have competitions around here, competitors are NOT allowed to have their own forum topics for their entries:
Q: What if I already created a class and it already has its own topic on this forum? A: That's a tricky situation! But in the interest of fairness to all competitors, if you do decide to enter that class in this competition, your topic will be locked. Not deleted, just locked, and it will be unlocked after the competition is over or after it gets knocked out. It would be weird of us to stop you from referencing or linking to that topic, but please don't abuse the privilege.
What about the card border design? I guess we have to make it on our own? d4m's mock entries feature the death knight's class colour palette from herthcards.net. In this case - how do we submit our design to hearthcards.net to make subsequent card design quicker and less tacky? If it's not an issue, I might just go the easy way, but I have a tendency to get real serious in these kind of comps.
On a side note. It's a nice surprise, but this kind of caliber for a design contest is a bit too overwhelming imo, even just discussing it takes a huge amount of time for the viewer to evaluate an entire set. Kudos, to enabling this, but I can't see it being worth the effort.
What about the card border design? I guess we have to make it on our own? d4m's mock entries feature the death knight's class colour palette from herthcards.net. In this case - how do we submit our design to hearthcards.net to make subsequent card design quicker and less tacky? If it's not an issue, I might just go the easy way, but I have a tendency to get real serious in these kind of comps.
On a side note. It's a nice surprise, but this kind of caliber for a design contest is a bit too overwhelming imo, even just discussing it takes a huge amount of time for the viewer to evaluate an entire set. Kudos, to enabling this, but I can't see it being worth the effort.
You can make your own card border/color/design if you want to, but it's not required. Hearthcards has a few non-existent ones that you can use, or you can simply opt to use one of the ones for an existing class. If I were entering (which, no, I won't be), I'd probably end up using the Priest or Warlock borders. This will, again, be one of things that'll end up being up to voters to decide how much they care about it. I hope not very much.
As for the latter concern, my perspective is something akin to "Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained". But some of the forums more regular folks have been suggesting for a while now that they'd like to see something more hardcore than our Weekly Design Competition, so we want to try to offer that and see how it goes. =)
I'm quite tempted to make Nerubians a contender. I'm not a native to WoW lore though, so it's quite difficult to find an appropriate hero.
Or picture, for that matter. Based on the wiki, Ixit seems the most appropriate leader for the faction, but the best picture I can find that fits the portrait is straight from the wiki, which appears to be an in game screenshot. Not the highest quality art, unfortunately, but is it acceptable enough for this competition? Here's the picture:
As a side note, I think this is an excellent idea for a competition, thanks for the opportunity :D
We all know this man, and now I show how he will act in Hearthstone (possibly). His main goal is value: Making sure that cards cost more for the opponent and less for you. He will not have as much card draw, he will attempt to keep you in a good position.
This hero power is dedicated to make sure the opponent has to (Sometimes) play for less value. It can even make some cards unplayable and stop certain combo's (Even works on The Coin). It's not super beneficial to you, but anything that keeps the opponent from getting maximum value. It's definitely worth using when you have some mana left.
Max Value: Get your minions cheap and combo later on. The catch here is that you sacrifice a card for a two mana discount. Use it if you have cards in the deck that can combo, so that the combo can work earlier.
What do you get when your card is better then it should be for it's cost? A negative effect for yourself! A 3/4 body and 3 damage are nothing to stare at, especially for 3 mana. But, your next card might have less value. It can be compared to Fire Elemental. In fact, That's pretty much what this is! But the difference is that you can play it earlier at the cost of curve value.
The Thunder King ruins everything. Even your Value. Yes, you get a negative effect too, but the opponent has to deal with it first, and it hits harder on them. Wipe the board, play this guy, and the opponent might have a hard time making a comeback. It's recommended to trade this minion to regain your own value, but that's only a small cost compared to the value your opponent had to give up.
I don't know. I mean, it looks like a Monk, which would not be allowed, but they technically never named their class in their submission post. Though, not naming your class would also mean that you're submission is incomplete, so you're right that it's ineligible either way. XD
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This is the Discussion Topic. The Submission Topic is here.
(Please Read the Submission Topic first.)
Hello everybody! I'm Asylum, and I'll be co-organizing this competition alongside DialM4Murloc. This topic is for discussion of the Class Design Competition. To make sure that everything runs smoothly, we need to reserve the Submission Topic for submissions only. Everything else goes here. What is everything else, you might ask?
Rules or Process. Do you have a question about the competition's process? Do you need clarification about this week's entry format? Are you not sure whether your entry adhered to the rules? Ask here!
Feedback or Ideas. Do you have some ideas you'd like to run by others before settling on one? Do you need help balancing or wording your hero power or example cards? Do you need help finding art that will fit your hero? Or do you just want feedback from the community on your entry? You're in the right place! Remember, although you are allowed to make minor tweaks to your entry after you've submitted it, you're only allowed one submission per week, so make sure that you've settled on your card for sure beforehand.
Discussion! Do you have thoughts on other people's heroes? Are there directions you don't like that you're seeing too many people take? Or directions you'd like to see more people take? Would you like to help others and contribute to a greater community understanding of Hearthstone card design and balance? This is where you want to be!
WARNING:
Please refrain from the following...
Advertising Your Entry. Please don't pop in here just to advertise your hero only to never be heard from again. This includes only asking short, generic, or insincere questions like "Thoughts?" or "Do you think this is balanced?". Yes, getting feedback on your hero is one of the purposes of this topic, but we're not just here for other people to help you. We're here for you all to help each other.
12 hours after this competition begins, there should be plenty of other posts here for you to give specific feedback or for you to comment on a trend. If you post your hero for feedback after this time and do not also offer some form of substantial commentary, critique, or praise of others' work, you may find your post deleted.
Plagiarism. Many people post their ideas here before finalizing them in the submission topic. Directly plagiarizing those ideas to post in the submission topic yourself is absolutely not acceptable. However, as we said in the submission topic, the design space for Hero Powers is relatively narrow, especially with us requiring that your Hero Powers cost (2) Mana just like the real ones, so we are not going to be able to be militant about policing similar or even identical Hero Powers.
One Final Note...
In case you were wondering, the rule about no Death Knight or Monks? You have me specifically to blame for that. Some of you may be wondering, though, what the heck you can do for classes when you can't use these. Well, it wouldn't be fair of me to restrict you from those choices without pointing you towards alternatives. Without getting too specific...
Class isn't the only way that characters differentiate themselves in the Warcraft universe. Off of the top of my head, there are also Professions and Races (and not just the playable ones).
There are tons of other fantasy RPGs out there, and a lot of them have thematically coherent Classes distinct but not too far removed from what we see in the Warcraft universe.
If you're feeling up to a good challenge, consider looking for inspiration from RPGs outside of Warcraft's high fantasy genre.
So, without further ado, have fun and get creating!
Mock Submission
I have let you all down by not submitting lots of Murloc related things in the WDC, I hope you can forgive me after this mock entry :P This is for me to have some fun and to inspire you guys. Even though it may be hard to come up with something it's still possible! Why not make a Murloc class yourself? ;)
Tribal Leader
So, how would this class work? I've actually never played WoW, but as far as I understand Murlocs will try and gang up on their enemy/enemies and overwhelm them, which will lead to Murlocs becoming the winners of the fights! Unfortunately I think Hearthstone has failed with this and Murlocs are just a worse, more gimmicky face-variant compared to Face Hunter. With this class I want to make Murlocs feel closer to the Murlocs in WoW and focus mostly on minions and not spells. However it would have a few weapons. I have identified a few major problems with Murlocs:
Too reliant on good card draw and that the cards keep on coming as you will empty your hand quickly
Too reliant on Murloc Warleaders
Too bad trading
Too susceptible too AoE
No protection of important minions
So, how can I fix these problems? Unfortunately I will only post three cards here but they will hopefully at least give you some kind of picture of what I'm aiming at.
This Hero Power would allow better trading as you can get +2 Attack which can make a big difference in the end. Getting an Abusive Sergeant effect when you need it could really improve Murlocs' viability. But the balance of this Hero Power then? Well, you have to use it on a Murloc which means that your options are limited which reduces the HP's worth. Also it's only for this turn and your own Hero won't gain anything from it like for example Druids does (+1 Armor). If you have no board then this HP is most likely useless.
CARD DRAW! Murloc decks card draw outside of Warlock variants are often quite unstable. You can't really count on it. However with this card you are going to draw at least three cards but probably more! As the card would be minion based you are likely to draw an additional 1-2 cards which would greatly help. Is it unbalanced? Compared to Nourish I think it's fine as you don't have the versatilty Nourish has but instead have a probable bonus of extra card draw.
BUFFS! Murlocs need buffs to work. Murlocs without the Murloc Warleader(s) are usually very tame and can't do alot. Coldlight Seers and Grimscale Oracles help some but not enough. Therefor Murlocs need more cards that buff them. So, if I complete this class you can expect cards with Attack buffs, Health buffs, protection buffs etc! Murlocs really need some form of protection vs AoE that is balanced but good enough at the same time.
PROTECTION! A boring, simple card but it's really something that is needed. How else would you protect your Warleaders, Murk-Eye etc? Murlocs actually don't have a single taunt card which they are in desperate need of. They can't really use a Taunt without the Murloc synergy as Murlocs are so heavily dependant on its synergy to make themselves work.
I hope you enjoyed my class! It's not perfect but as I'm not participating in this competition, perfect is not needed IMO :P I'm thinking of a special keyword for the class which would be based of Murlocs swarming capabilities. This keyword would be used to snowball out of control because I would want this class to be able to punish overly slow decks, but at the same time not be too aggroish. Wish me luck!
I will go ahead with a Necromancer class featuring Ner'Zhul as hero.
edit: I will abuse this post for testing purposes. ^_^
For a detailed introduction of the hero and the application of the hero power, click HERE.
"The darkness flows within me."
Necromancer
Reminder: Existing cards like Flesheating Ghoul and Kel'Thuzad among many others, will also receive the Undead tag. See my Phase I post linked at the top for a detailed list.
3 Card Examples
Keep in mind that these are supposed to be the BASIC set (no class has overly fancy basic cards). That means they aren't the most interesting cards and lack most of the Undead and Hero Power synergy. I already mapped these out and they will be a lot more unique. Many of them will come with the CLASSIC set. I assure you, you won't be disappointed.
See the rest of the cards by opening the spoiler:
I don't have anything fleshed out enough to submit for phase 1 just yet, but I was thinking something like a pet battle class, a minion/beast focused midrange class, thinking about bringing something like the fatality keyword from season of wdc.
Very fun Idea, maybe after this one it could be design an adventure encounter, not a full adventure just one boss.
Heroic Drakkisath (The Fire Lord?) - #1 Heroic Drakkisath Deck Guide, Featuring Majordomo Executus, by yours truly.
Looking for more card design action? Check out my Artstone Design Challenge:That's So Meta
I prefer the first art as it is the most dynamic.
Heroic Drakkisath (The Fire Lord?) - #1 Heroic Drakkisath Deck Guide, Featuring Majordomo Executus, by yours truly.
Looking for more card design action? Check out my Artstone Design Challenge:That's So Meta
Does the hero, cards and stuff have to do something with Heroes of Warcraft?
Holy jesus, one set per week. I don't know if I can do this, but I guess I have to give it a shot.
Can I submit my wip class?
Lore-friendliness is encouraged but is not a requirement to enter or advance in the competition. It will be up to voters to decide how much they care about it, or up to you to convince them one way or the other.
This is addressed in the Q&A section of the Submission topic, as I expected it might come up. Normally when we have competitions around here, competitors are NOT allowed to have their own forum topics for their entries:
Q: What if I already created a class and it already has its own topic on this forum?
A: That's a tricky situation! But in the interest of fairness to all competitors, if you do decide to enter that class in this competition, your topic will be locked. Not deleted, just locked, and it will be unlocked after the competition is over or after it gets knocked out. It would be weird of us to stop you from referencing or linking to that topic, but please don't abuse the privilege.
I like the third the most.
How do I publish more than 1 image to imgur. I lost 4/5th of my work and only got the heroes portrait.
Give a man a Murloc, and he'll eat for a day.
Give him a Murloc Knight, and people will hate him.
Just ctr+v them. You have to click "second image, third image" etc at the top, once you have uploaded them, to access them.
What about the card border design? I guess we have to make it on our own? d4m's mock entries feature the death knight's class colour palette from herthcards.net. In this case - how do we submit our design to hearthcards.net to make subsequent card design quicker and less tacky? If it's not an issue, I might just go the easy way, but I have a tendency to get real serious in these kind of comps.
On a side note. It's a nice surprise, but this kind of caliber for a design contest is a bit too overwhelming imo, even just discussing it takes a huge amount of time for the viewer to evaluate an entire set. Kudos, to enabling this, but I can't see it being worth the effort.
You can make your own card border/color/design if you want to, but it's not required. Hearthcards has a few non-existent ones that you can use, or you can simply opt to use one of the ones for an existing class. If I were entering (which, no, I won't be), I'd probably end up using the Priest or Warlock borders. This will, again, be one of things that'll end up being up to voters to decide how much they care about it. I hope not very much.
As for the latter concern, my perspective is something akin to "Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained". But some of the forums more regular folks have been suggesting for a while now that they'd like to see something more hardcore than our Weekly Design Competition, so we want to try to offer that and see how it goes. =)
I'm quite tempted to make Nerubians a contender. I'm not a native to WoW lore though, so it's quite difficult to find an appropriate hero.
Or picture, for that matter. Based on the wiki, Ixit seems the most appropriate leader for the faction, but the best picture I can find that fits the portrait is straight from the wiki, which appears to be an in game screenshot. Not the highest quality art, unfortunately, but is it acceptable enough for this competition? Here's the picture:
As a side note, I think this is an excellent idea for a competition, thanks for the opportunity :D
Anub'rekhan and Anub'arak are by far the most famous Nerubian.
First submission and already a rule violation...
Introducing...
We all know this man, and now I show how he will act in Hearthstone (possibly). His main goal is value: Making sure that cards cost more for the opponent and less for you. He will not have as much card draw, he will attempt to keep you in a good position.
This hero power is dedicated to make sure the opponent has to (Sometimes) play for less value. It can even make some cards unplayable and stop certain combo's (Even works on The Coin). It's not super beneficial to you, but anything that keeps the opponent from getting maximum value. It's definitely worth using when you have some mana left.
Max Value: Get your minions cheap and combo later on. The catch here is that you sacrifice a card for a two mana discount.
Use it if you have cards in the deck that can combo, so that the combo can work earlier.
What do you get when your card is better then it should be for it's cost? A negative effect for yourself! A 3/4 body and 3 damage are nothing to stare at, especially for 3 mana. But, your next card might have less value. It can be compared to Fire Elemental. In fact, That's pretty much what this is! But the difference is that you can play it earlier at the cost of curve value.
The Thunder King ruins everything. Even your Value. Yes, you get a negative effect too, but the opponent has to deal with it first, and it hits harder on them. Wipe the board, play this guy, and the opponent might have a hard time making a comeback. It's recommended to trade this minion to regain your own value, but that's only a small cost compared to the value your opponent had to give up.
Give a man a Murloc, and he'll eat for a day.
Give him a Murloc Knight, and people will hate him.
I don't know. I mean, it looks like a Monk, which would not be allowed, but they technically never named their class in their submission post. Though, not naming your class would also mean that you're submission is incomplete, so you're right that it's ineligible either way. XD