With almost all significant dragons being rotated out in about a month, what do you think of the void that will be left? Should Dragon Priest continue to be an archetype, should less played Dragon decks like Dragon Warrior and Dragon Paladin be made better, or should entirely new classes get access to their own Dragons?
For some reason, I really like the appeal of a Dragon Rogue archetype, since the two things seem so separate from each other. Wrathion would have been a perfect legendary for Dragon Rogue, though with multiple Deathwings in the game, who's to say we wont see a Dragon Wrathion in the future? That said, I think Wrathion could work well with these theorycraft cards I made.
First off, a simple card that shares resemblance to Journey Below, but has some additional functionality. Since Dragons are often needed in-hand for other cards to get significant value, this card can be a quick and cheap way to reach that requirement. Additionally, the Combo allows you to choose whether or not you want a Rogue or Neutral Dragon, or a Dragon you wouldn't otherwise get to use.
Next is a conceptual Dragon that I think would fit Rogue pretty decently. This card actually helps out multiple Rogue archetypes that are a bit weak right now: Stealth, Deathrattle/N'Zoth, and, of course, Dragon (not to say it's a high functioning archetype right now). Also, in theory, it helps Mill Rogue, since a little bit of deck generation and fatigue distancing can go a long way. Aside from all that, I think this is a reasonable card, but only conceptual, as it's not really archetype defining alone.
Lastly is a card that shares some resemblance to Anub'arak, but has way more playability via dragon synergy and free value. To elaborate briefly on the card text, this would realistically read something like "Deathrattle: Resummon this minion at the start of a random turn (1-12 turns from now)." Since this includes enemy turns, this card can be either a ridiculous amount of free value or a huge investment that doesn't pay off, but generally a very great control/anti-control card.
Do you like these cards? Do you hate them? How would you have designed them? What classes would you like to see getting Dragons in the future? And what type of Dragon decks would you want to be played in the future (midrange/control/etc.)?
I dig Infinite Drake, though I don't generally support anything that benefits mill decks in any way. I am all for anything that strengthens a non-combo Rogue play style, or weakens mill.
I love the flavor and effect of Straight From the Nest.
Infinite Drake feels a little weak. I'm not sure if shuffling a copy into the deck is even a good thing. You wouldn't want to topdeck a 3/4 late game. The anti-fatigue aspect is unlikely, and frankly, Gang Up is way more effective for that purpose. You wouldn't want to play this in Mill Rogue either because you would need a significant number of Dragons to reliably trigger the effect, and Mill Rogue lists are already pretty tight with healing and removals. If the effect was changed to "if you are holding a Dragon, put an Infinite Drake into your hand", I think it would be better without being OP.
Murozond reminds me of Adoring Fan (3mp 0/1, Taunt, Deathrattle: Adoring Fan will return. Cannot be Silenced.) from The Elder Scroll: Legends ;). However, Adoring Fan costs 3mp, which means its played early into the game, giving it plenty of opportunity to respawn multiple times. Murozond costs too much to even see play, and even if you pull it off, the game will be so close to completion that it may never even respawn (look how Malorne turned out). I would've made it "Deathrattle: Resummon this minion whenever you play a Dragon" instead.
I love that you're backing Dragon Rogue, I also feel like with a couple of Dragons it could be a really good archetype.
But I see too many deathrattles... Rogue is arguable the best deathrattle class with the strongest synergy and deathrattle cards and I think that with stuff like Gang Up and N'zoth existing it would be too strong.
I'm trying to not answer everything right away so that this thread might open up some broader discussion about the future of Dragons in HS, but I really like this point you made, knurdbob.
Murozond reminds me of Adoring Fan (3mp 0/1, Taunt, Deathrattle: Adoring Fan will return. Cannot be Silenced.) from The Elder Scroll: Legends ;). However, Adoring Fan costs 3mp, which means its played early into the game, giving it plenty of opportunity to respawn multiple times.
The difference between Murozond's and Adoring Fan's designs are sly but significant. Adoring Fan is anti-aggression, and is essentially a way to slow down a lane as support for other Guard/Taunt cards. Murozond, however, is specifically anti-control, but can be played as a way to shut out a long lasting game. It's very similar to Anub'arak in that way.
By the way, sorry if my wording was misleading, I only think Infinite Drake could help Mill in some weird Standard universe after Gang Up leaves and when Mill Rogue is clutching for ways to exist. All three of these cards are designed for post-rotation. It's more of a standard, one-track type of card, but has the potential to be used in different ways. Originally, the card was a 3/5 and had a Battlecry, but I decided to nerf both without realizing (I meant to only nerf it in one way). Drawing 3/4's in the late game being weak is definitely a strong point to make, but in theory this deck would want to win by turn 10-12 or so. If I was to change the card, I'd probably make it a 3/5 again.
Why can't Straight from the Nest not be played with combo? And what exactly do you mean by that? I'm sorry, but your post doesn't seem to contribute much. :/
I really like Straight From the Nest, and Infinite Drake is a really cool, but I think it should cost more and have better stats.
I don't like how much RNG factors into the effectiveness of Murozond.
Azure Thief, although it's not very powerful, that's okay. Not every card has to be top-tier. I'm a big fan of anything thief rogue, and imo, adding three randoms spells to your deck is much better than random legendaries.
Edit: I highly doubt that we will get more dragons anytime soon, unfortunately. When Mechs rotated out with GvG, we got extremely few cards supporting them further.
Yeeees, dragon rogue!! Here's my contribution (Nefarian/Prince M/Azure Drake inspired):
But why would you make your deck so much worse? It's like Prince Malchezaar, unplayably bad. Maybe it could be fun for some gimmick deck.. I like the stats and draw effect combined to be strong (2 more hp than Azure is nice) considering other effect is very negative for you
True that it's for a gimmicky deck. I think that's okay :) it's aiming for fun!
Why can't Straight from the Nest not be played with combo? And what exactly do you mean by that? I'm sorry, but your post doesn't seem to contribute much. :/
Added a poll for personal interest.
it just sucks with combo, there is much less constituency of a card that's not that useful.
I still don't see what you mean. The card just lets you decide if you want a Rogue/Neutral specific Dragon, or a Dragon from any class/Neutral. If you specifically want to play Murozond in the late game, you can play Straight from the Nest on 10 mana and have a decent chance at getting him. If you want to play something else, you could play it at the end of your turn beforehand, and try to get an Alex or Ysera.
I really like the concept of Azure Thief, but it might be doing too much for one card. I definitely see where you were coming from in terms of designing it, and really like that concept.
Glad to see people wanting Dragon Shaman! The ideas of Dragons being large, powerful minions but with conditional effects feels really natural for Shaman, with its overstated Overload minions, and I'm glad other people want that, too. Hopefully we can get Dragon Shaman soon!
Just went through my custom cards folder and found something I made last Sunday late at night that I had totally forgotten about. Thought this would be a good thread to post about it in for feedback. Thoughts?
Shaman loves its claws, so...
Note that the weapon only gains Overload: (1) if the Dragon trigger actually goes off. It could definitely be a bit OP, though. Went another two steps forward with some ideas, let me know what you think. I rushed these a bit, and it's passed midnight, so go just a bit easy on me.
Really unsure how to balance the price/overload specifically. Battle for Azeroth is really weird like that. I imagined it originally costing more, like 5, but then realized that at worst that could be 5-mana "Both players draw a minion. Overload: (1)." and that did not seem good, but it didn't seem right without Overload, since it could be used to totally annihilate your opponent over multiple turns alongside other cards.
As for Twilight, it could definitely be OP, but I'm honestly too tired to imagine scenarios right now. What do you guys think?
In hindsight I think you're right about Shaman, specifically about the Overload. The conditional effect of having a Dragon, even without Azure Drake available, is probably not situatonal enough.
As for Battle for Azeroth, I agree that a 3-mana Malygos, Ysera, or Deathwing is powerful, but I always thought those "maximum value" decks to be way situational and RNG dependent to work out. A good example is that deck that tries using Barnes to pull out a 1/1 and a 10/10 Y'Shaarj. 4-mana 14/15 is cool and all, but there's a reason it's not a very played, or good, deck. And even if you could run two Barnes, and even if they were spells as to not pull out the other Barnes, I don't think the deck would work much better than it already does. Same goes for a deck that tries to get out a Deathwing on turn 3. There's a lot of removal and taunt in the current meta, so that deck would get crushed by a Hex or Polymorph, or just by some taunts. Still, I'm open to how the card can be made more applicable than for just a super greedy combo/semi-combo deck.
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With almost all significant dragons being rotated out in about a month, what do you think of the void that will be left? Should Dragon Priest continue to be an archetype, should less played Dragon decks like Dragon Warrior and Dragon Paladin be made better, or should entirely new classes get access to their own Dragons?
For some reason, I really like the appeal of a Dragon Rogue archetype, since the two things seem so separate from each other. Wrathion would have been a perfect legendary for Dragon Rogue, though with multiple Deathwings in the game, who's to say we wont see a Dragon Wrathion in the future? That said, I think Wrathion could work well with these theorycraft cards I made.
First off, a simple card that shares resemblance to Journey Below, but has some additional functionality. Since Dragons are often needed in-hand for other cards to get significant value, this card can be a quick and cheap way to reach that requirement. Additionally, the Combo allows you to choose whether or not you want a Rogue or Neutral Dragon, or a Dragon you wouldn't otherwise get to use.
Next is a conceptual Dragon that I think would fit Rogue pretty decently. This card actually helps out multiple Rogue archetypes that are a bit weak right now: Stealth, Deathrattle/N'Zoth, and, of course, Dragon (not to say it's a high functioning archetype right now). Also, in theory, it helps Mill Rogue, since a little bit of deck generation and fatigue distancing can go a long way. Aside from all that, I think this is a reasonable card, but only conceptual, as it's not really archetype defining alone.
Lastly is a card that shares some resemblance to Anub'arak, but has way more playability via dragon synergy and free value. To elaborate briefly on the card text, this would realistically read something like "Deathrattle: Resummon this minion at the start of a random turn (1-12 turns from now)." Since this includes enemy turns, this card can be either a ridiculous amount of free value or a huge investment that doesn't pay off, but generally a very great control/anti-control card.
Do you like these cards? Do you hate them? How would you have designed them? What classes would you like to see getting Dragons in the future? And what type of Dragon decks would you want to be played in the future (midrange/control/etc.)?
I dig Infinite Drake, though I don't generally support anything that benefits mill decks in any way. I am all for anything that strengthens a non-combo Rogue play style, or weakens mill.
Forgive me, friend. I have failed.
I love the flavor and effect of Straight From the Nest.
Infinite Drake feels a little weak. I'm not sure if shuffling a copy into the deck is even a good thing. You wouldn't want to topdeck a 3/4 late game. The anti-fatigue aspect is unlikely, and frankly, Gang Up is way more effective for that purpose. You wouldn't want to play this in Mill Rogue either because you would need a significant number of Dragons to reliably trigger the effect, and Mill Rogue lists are already pretty tight with healing and removals. If the effect was changed to "if you are holding a Dragon, put an Infinite Drake into your hand", I think it would be better without being OP.
Murozond reminds me of Adoring Fan (3mp 0/1, Taunt, Deathrattle: Adoring Fan will return. Cannot be Silenced.) from The Elder Scroll: Legends ;). However, Adoring Fan costs 3mp, which means its played early into the game, giving it plenty of opportunity to respawn multiple times. Murozond costs too much to even see play, and even if you pull it off, the game will be so close to completion that it may never even respawn (look how Malorne turned out). I would've made it "Deathrattle: Resummon this minion whenever you play a Dragon" instead.
I love that you're backing Dragon Rogue, I also feel like with a couple of Dragons it could be a really good archetype.
But I see too many deathrattles... Rogue is arguable the best deathrattle class with the strongest synergy and deathrattle cards and I think that with stuff like Gang Up and N'zoth existing it would be too strong.
Really like them though, interesting concepts ^^
I'm trying to not answer everything right away so that this thread might open up some broader discussion about the future of Dragons in HS, but I really like this point you made, knurdbob.
you can't play straight from the nest with combo, infinity drake just feels wrong, and the legendary card looks like pure rng and no one likes rng.
playing wild
~nomad
Why can't Straight from the Nest not be played with combo? And what exactly do you mean by that? I'm sorry, but your post doesn't seem to contribute much. :/
Added a poll for personal interest.
Yeeees, dragon rogue!! Here's my contribution (Nefarian/Prince M/Azure Drake inspired):
"His life goal is to one-up his Drake brother... we wish him luck."
"The Slayer" custom class
"The Great Thaw" expansion competition finalist
I really like Straight From the Nest, and Infinite Drake is a really cool, but I think it should cost more and have better stats.
I don't like how much RNG factors into the effectiveness of Murozond.
Azure Thief, although it's not very powerful, that's okay. Not every card has to be top-tier. I'm a big fan of anything thief rogue, and imo, adding three randoms spells to your deck is much better than random legendaries.
Edit: I highly doubt that we will get more dragons anytime soon, unfortunately. When Mechs rotated out with GvG, we got extremely few cards supporting them further.
"The Slayer" custom class
"The Great Thaw" expansion competition finalist
playing wild
~nomad
I still don't see what you mean. The card just lets you decide if you want a Rogue/Neutral specific Dragon, or a Dragon from any class/Neutral. If you specifically want to play Murozond in the late game, you can play Straight from the Nest on 10 mana and have a decent chance at getting him. If you want to play something else, you could play it at the end of your turn beforehand, and try to get an Alex or Ysera.
I really like the concept of Azure Thief, but it might be doing too much for one card. I definitely see where you were coming from in terms of designing it, and really like that concept.
Glad to see people wanting Dragon Shaman! The ideas of Dragons being large, powerful minions but with conditional effects feels really natural for Shaman, with its overstated Overload minions, and I'm glad other people want that, too. Hopefully we can get Dragon Shaman soon!
Just went through my custom cards folder and found something I made last Sunday late at night that I had totally forgotten about. Thought this would be a good thread to post about it in for feedback. Thoughts?
Shaman loves its claws, so...
Note that the weapon only gains Overload: (1) if the Dragon trigger actually goes off. It could definitely be a bit OP, though. Went another two steps forward with some ideas, let me know what you think. I rushed these a bit, and it's passed midnight, so go just a bit easy on me.
Really unsure how to balance the price/overload specifically. Battle for Azeroth is really weird like that. I imagined it originally costing more, like 5, but then realized that at worst that could be 5-mana "Both players draw a minion. Overload: (1)." and that did not seem good, but it didn't seem right without Overload, since it could be used to totally annihilate your opponent over multiple turns alongside other cards.
As for Twilight, it could definitely be OP, but I'm honestly too tired to imagine scenarios right now. What do you guys think?
In hindsight I think you're right about Shaman, specifically about the Overload. The conditional effect of having a Dragon, even without Azure Drake available, is probably not situatonal enough.
As for Battle for Azeroth, I agree that a 3-mana Malygos, Ysera, or Deathwing is powerful, but I always thought those "maximum value" decks to be way situational and RNG dependent to work out. A good example is that deck that tries using Barnes to pull out a 1/1 and a 10/10 Y'Shaarj. 4-mana 14/15 is cool and all, but there's a reason it's not a very played, or good, deck. And even if you could run two Barnes, and even if they were spells as to not pull out the other Barnes, I don't think the deck would work much better than it already does. Same goes for a deck that tries to get out a Deathwing on turn 3. There's a lot of removal and taunt in the current meta, so that deck would get crushed by a Hex or Polymorph, or just by some taunts. Still, I'm open to how the card can be made more applicable than for just a super greedy combo/semi-combo deck.