Regardless of any of this, the original point of this thread was talking about getting the chance to play and try out the pirate warrior deck and see how it feels / plays.
While in that discussion it would appear that a couple of people have successfully diverted the focus of this thread onto what the definition of a combo is.
So what's that phrase the "kool kids" are apparently now saying again? Oh yeah : "It looks like I was trolled. Shame on me, eh? :-) "
XD Is this the new "Get Out Clause" people are using now when they lose an argument? It's like you don't even understand what trolling is...
But that's fine. Don't forget you guys came onto this thread and started trolling about Pirate Warriors and are now leaving in a huff because you got shot down. /smh
Mate if you're claiming you can't possibly understand how people use Malygos as a combo card you are most definitely trolling. Druid and Rogue have had decks built around it for ages.
No you misunderstood my question (as it appears did some of the other people on this thread). I never once claimed it couldn't be used. And I certainly didn't claim not to understand how it could be used in a "combo". In fact I asked what combos people used it with specifically for further ideas (having had some of my own and wanting to see if I'd missed any).
However, I also specifically asked how Malygos could be used in a "OTK combo". So far the only one suggested has been to use Thaurissan which can't be used on the same turn as Malygos, so doesn't count as a OTK. You could potentially now use all the extra coins collected perhaps.
Likewise you don't understand what OTK means either. OTK is not "playing arcanite reaper+heroic strike to deal 9 damage and win!"
Nice straw man.
That's not what I said. I gave an example of a combo that provides huge damage output in one turn to achieve an unexpected kill in one turn. (Hence the OTK) Otherwise, you could argue that a True OTK combo would need to deal the full 30 damage (at least) to be considered a OTK. In my original example, I utilised multiple Heroic Strikes, Upgrades and a Mortal strike which pulled off a one turn damage deal of 19 damage.
Which literally never happens. Why the hell would the pirate warrior keep these cards in hand to use them together in a fancy """OTK "" on turn 10+ when neither Heroic Strike nor Mortal Strike nor Arcanite Reaper need any of the others to deal their expected damage? Combo decks need their partner cards to realize their power, but it's totally not the case here.
That's your problem in a nutshell, you're completely detached from the reality of the game. WIth the aforementioned cards in hand the pirate warrior would simply use all his mana to deal Heroic Strike one turn, Mortal Strike the next, Arcanite Reaper the last. They don't need to "combo" the "otk" because the deck is neither of the two.
Combo decks are made of cards that taken by themselves suck and only together with others become strong, see your warlock example: PO and Arcane Golem and Abusive Sergeant suck balls if played alone, they need to be together to get powerful. Save for upgrade, kinda, none of the cards you mentioned do that. Pirate decks have nothing to do with combo decks (or OTK for all that matters).
That's your problem in a nutshell, you're completely detached from the reality of the game. WIth the aforementioned cards in hand the pirate warrior would simply use all his mana to deal Heroic Strike one turn, Mortal Strike the next, Arcanite Reaper the last. They don't need to "combo" the "otk" because the deck is neither of the two.
This also displays your lack of game knowledge somewhat.
If you tried to play this over multiple turns, you "might" get away with it. Or your opponent will see the damage on the first turn and play any number of heals. Or armours. Or similar cards. All of which have just completely screwed you over and prevented you from winning (which you would have done in a single turn.
Yes I get you're ignoring how Pirate Warrior decks work as a whole to sustain your fantasies, it doesn't make your words any less nonsense:
"The warrior is gonna get scared by possible heals and taunts so he's gonna wait turn10 OTK (and lose for sure) rather than pushing face anyway and concede if it doesn't work out!"
As I said: utter detachment from the reality of the game. I'm starting to see why that other guy accused you of trolling, the alternative is far too dumb to consider.
Well fine, I'll take you at face value then (appropriately for a discussion about Pirate Warrior).
In terms of pure OTK-combos, they don't really exist in Hearthstone anymore. Almost all combos that take 30 health or more in one turn require set-up by Thaurassian, you can conceivably do 30+ damage from hand in Malygos Rogue but that would require you having 2 Coins, 2 Preparations, 2 Sinister Strikes and 2 Eviscerates so while it can happen it's infrequent.
Agreed. You don't normally see these (although they do exist, but are rare). The point I was making was in rebuttal to an argument someone else was trying to make that a OTK win had to specify an exact amount of damage to be considered OTK. Which would essentially take us to this idea of a "True OTK" combo. But I agree wit you - they are unlikely if at all possible.
Although you are correct in purely literal terms to call Arcanite Reaper + Heroic Strike a combo as it is a combination of 2 cards it isn't really accurate in terms of the how the word is usually used in Hearthstone. When people talk about a combo they normally mean cards that strongly synergise with each other to produce a powerful effect that, if played on their own, they wouldn't produce. In this sense Reaper + Heroic Strike (and most of the possible combos in Pirate Warrior) doesn't qualify because if you played them in consecutive turns they do 9 damage, if you play them together they do 9 damage. It's the same effect and playing them in combination achieves nothing except surprise factor (although it's never much of a surprise).
Ah, well I am coming from a MtG and WoW TCG background wherein a combination of cards synergise well together to make a single move / attack / strategy play. In this instance, the idea of spamming out 4 or 5 cards in succession to boost your attack is considered an "aggression combo" - in particular this was often seen in Druid decks in WoW TCG - where buffing your hero to attack was a fun strategy. In the pirate sense it is made more interesting because of the hidden nature of the combo - rather than seeing it coming a mile off (like with Thaurissan and Malygos)
When people talk about combo decks (although it's debatable whether this is a real archetype or not) they normally mean there is a centrepiece combo requiring several cards that is the primary win condition of the deck. In this sense Leeroy Renolock is a kind of combo deck as it requires 3 specific cards and set-up by Thaurassian to deal 20 damage in one turn which is the main win condition of the deck (although it has others).
Sure, but a combo deck doesn't have to rely on one single combo for it to be considered as such. In this way, the pirate deck can win by sheer aggro sure. Or it can pull off the combination of cards that buff him up to do heavy lethal. There's an important point worth raising here in that that Heroic strikes and Reaper all have to be pulled in together for the OTK to work. That's where the combo comes into play.
I suppose in a purist sense, you could argue that a "combo" deck could in fact only be considered a Rogue Deck that makes use of the combo keyword, but that's probably a step too far. :-)
Pirate Warrior doesn't qualify for this as there is not a specific combination of cards you're trying to draw into, you just want to deal as much damage as possible with whatever cards you have and there is no one combo of cards that is the primary win condition.
I still maintain a combo deck isn't required to have a single primary win condition, though. A really good combo deck should always have at least one backup strategy.
It also doesn't typically matter at what stage of the game you're at or in what order you play the cards. In this sense the non-Malygos Miracle Rogue variant is also not really a combo deck, despite playing lots of cards in combination, as there is no centrepiece combo and you will typically look to burst your opponent down by any means necessary rather than a specific combo.
Ah, now you're touching on something slightly different here. You are referring to decks that synergise around one specific card (or play). This is certainly a type of combo, but is not exclusive in that title. You can run a combo off of more than one card.
I would also personally say that the Miracle Rogue deck (the original at least) is very much a combo deck (by your above definition) since it all hinges on the auctioneer to work. Without that one card, the whole deck falls apart.
This is the difference between burst damage and a true combo.
Perhaps this is the crux here - you see, I believe that burst damage that involves playing a succession of cards that work together to achieve the final combination (and damage amount) is indeed a combo.
If you think that burst damage (in this way) is not a combo, then that's where the difference appears to lie.
Yeah, I'm going to direct my attention to the intelligent people from now on. Cheers.
XD
Is this the new "Get Out Clause" people are using now when they lose an argument? It's like you don't even understand what trolling is...
But that's fine. Don't forget you guys came onto this thread and started trolling about Pirate Warriors and are now leaving in a huff because you got shot down. /smh
This is the difference between burst damage and a true combo.
Perhaps this is the crux here - you see, I believe that burst damage that involves playing a succession of cards that work together to achieve the final combination (and damage amount) is indeed a combo.
So you're wrong even by your own standards. Heroic Strike doesn't work with either Arcanite Reaper nor Mortal Strike, they all deal damage independently from each other. There's no difference in damage between playing Mortal Strike on turn 4 or Mortal Strike+Heroic Strike on turn 6. Upgrade only adds +1 damage to Arcanite reaper while doing nothing else for the turn it's used.
This is the difference between burst damage and a true combo.
Perhaps this is the crux here - you see, I believe that burst damage that involves playing a succession of cards that work together to achieve the final combination (and damage amount) is indeed a combo.
If you think that burst damage (in this way) is not a combo, then that's where the difference appears to lie.
Well no, I don't think that is a proper combo if there's no synergy and I guess that is why I disagree with you. I would imagine that's probably why other people on this thread disagree with you as well. I was just trying to explain how the terms seem to be used on this site but obviously you can define it however you like if you want.
To be fair, most of the others who have been vocal have just been trolling with no real point to make.
But to answer your point, since you seem much more like a reasonable person open to discussion - this sounds to certainly be where the problem lies. If we look at the definition - combo (or more specifically "combination") : a joining or merging of different parts or qualities in which the component elements are individually distinct.
The interesting point we can take from this, is the last part. Each of the parts of a combo are "individually distinct". This means that they work in their own right independently, but also synergise together to a combined greater effect.
So in this way, we can view the Heroic Strike as just this. A selection of cards that work independentyl to each other but also work together to produce a burst damage effect.
Of course, this is all just general talk about combos. Going back to the pirate warrior discussion, what I find most bemusing is the fact that (as per my OP), I wasn't even "supporting" the deck as being "good" or "not broken" or anything. All I said was that it was interesting to play (not really my style) and that the final combo to finish off my opponent was quite satisfying. (Mostly because it doesn't always come off, so it makes it more worthwhile when it does work).
And then a couple of salty kids got all butt-hurt just because I said it was occasionally satisfying to play! Heh! I guess it takes all sorts and some just don't like losing!
Going back to the pirate warrior discussion, what I find most bemusing is the fact that (as per my OP), I wasn't even "supporting" the deck as being "good" or "not broken" or anything. All I said was that it was interesting to play (not really my style) and that the final combo to finish off my opponent was quite satisfying. (Mostly because it doesn't always come off, so it makes it more worthwhile when it does work).
And then a couple of salty kids got all butt-hurt just because I said it was occasionally satisfying to play! Heh!
I guess it takes all sorts and some just don't like losing!
Delusion over nine thousands.
Everyone's saying you're wrong here because, well, there is no "final combo" in pirate warrior. Just you not understanding what the term means in hearthstone.
Damn. The "youre salty and butthurt" argument. Well, that means you must be right. We should hereby declare pirate warrior as a combo deck (in addition to every single other deck that can play two cards in one turn)!
I thought you left because #troll ? (According to you) And yet you're still here unable to stand being wrong.
Damn. The "youre salty and butthurt" argument. Well, that means you must be right. We should hereby declare pirate warrior as a combo deck (in addition to every single other deck that can play two cards in one turn)!
Just drop it. I guess the guy realized how nobody agreed with him so far and activated the super-duper-defensive mode.
Consider it the last whine of the kicked down dog.
Regardless of any of this, the original point of this thread was talking about getting the chance to play and try out the pirate warrior deck and see how it feels / plays.
While in that discussion it would appear that a couple of people have successfully diverted the focus of this thread onto what the definition of a combo is.
So what's that phrase the "kool kids" are apparently now saying again? Oh yeah : "It looks like I was trolled. Shame on me, eh? :-) "
Scorpyon logic:
"Make a deck with 28 cards that do nothing, add 2 cards that deal damage and can be played together"
"there you have it, a combo deck!"
"and OTK deck too if the two cards manage to kill the guy!"
Much logic, so shot down. Leaving in a huff!
I never once claimed it couldn't be used. And I certainly didn't claim not to understand how it could be used in a "combo".
In fact I asked what combos people used it with specifically for further ideas (having had some of my own and wanting to see if I'd missed any).
Combo decks need their partner cards to realize their power, but it's totally not the case here.
That's your problem in a nutshell, you're completely detached from the reality of the game. WIth the aforementioned cards in hand the pirate warrior would simply use all his mana to deal Heroic Strike one turn, Mortal Strike the next, Arcanite Reaper the last.
They don't need to "combo" the "otk" because the deck is neither of the two.
Save for upgrade, kinda, none of the cards you mentioned do that.
Pirate decks have nothing to do with combo decks (or OTK for all that matters).
Ok, it makes sense now.
Thanks.
Yes I get you're ignoring how Pirate Warrior decks work as a whole to sustain your fantasies, it doesn't make your words any less nonsense:
"The warrior is gonna get scared by possible heals and taunts so he's gonna wait turn10 OTK (and lose for sure) rather than pushing face anyway and concede if it doesn't work out!"
As I said: utter detachment from the reality of the game.
I'm starting to see why that other guy accused you of trolling, the alternative is far too dumb to consider.
Perhaps this is the crux here - you see, I believe that burst damage that involves playing a succession of cards that work together to achieve the final combination (and damage amount) is indeed a combo.
If you think that burst damage (in this way) is not a combo, then that's where the difference appears to lie.
It's like you don't even understand what trolling is...
/smh
If we look at the definition - combo (or more specifically "combination") : a joining or merging of different parts or qualities in which the component elements are individually distinct.
The interesting point we can take from this, is the last part. Each of the parts of a combo are "individually distinct". This means that they work in their own right independently, but also synergise together to a combined greater effect.
Going back to the pirate warrior discussion, what I find most bemusing is the fact that (as per my OP), I wasn't even "supporting" the deck as being "good" or "not broken" or anything. All I said was that it was interesting to play (not really my style) and that the final combo to finish off my opponent was quite satisfying. (Mostly because it doesn't always come off, so it makes it more worthwhile when it does work).
I guess it takes all sorts and some just don't like losing!
Miracle rogue also is a combo deck because it has combo cards and you have to play certain 30 cards to kill your opponent.
Kappa
Lol
And yet you're still here unable to stand being wrong.