Hearthpwn

We're not seeing Pit Lords unless there's another popular deck that comes out utilizing him. Warlock never cared about health in the first place, a 1 mana 3/2 is still ridiculous no matter which way you cut it. People don't play Pit Lord primarily due to the fear of the damage drawback, it's because his stats don't fit their intended composition where the game is riddled with better 4 drops. Not to mention people's aversion to most cards vulnerable to Shadow Word Death

It only makes Warlock more pressured to finish the game and makes him more vulnerable later game - which, as a rush deck, should not be evenly matched if their opening gambit fails. The nerf suits the playstyle of Rush decks as a higher risk:reward without hurting their composition.

I like the idea of rush decks...But I'm just now starting to try and break away from it, I've had a few successes with a deck I whipped up recently..I mean I'm only in Gold 3s (which means little with the current ranking system) so that fact is less important, however I think the change will make me want to continue branching out into alternative builds that shy away from rushing with early power drops like Flame Imp. All together I feel like the change might be a bit much considering the ease of removal, but none the less does fit the gambit like play style I've seen in Warlock rush decks.

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Any ranking below 3* Masters means something cause if you can't reach Masters playing in this easier ranking system forget about when they update it

Flame imp is fine, they play it in rush decks and you tell me how often playing a flame imp influences you getting your ass handed by rush down decks. now they cant stall and fish out burn or charges to finish you off easier

I've probably been playing on and off for a month, haven't even built any legendaries; not that, that influences my abilities in constructed, I'm using it as a point of reference, I'm just now really starting to learn the game, so forgive me for not already being in 3* Masters. It's often why I offer my opinion with the disclaimer of being a bit of a nub. For most other games I've had friends who I can talk to/play with in order to reduce my learning curve, but currently I'm solo when it comes to playing HS so it's slow going. I do intend to keep working at it though so I can become a better player.

that's all good, I'm just saying that ranking DOES mean something, not that you're bad or anything, sorry if it came off that way

I just copied aishi's Warlock Low Mana Rush deck and got to masters in about 70 games, i started before a lot of people played so there wasnt legendaries everywhere. now that people have some investment in the game you see so many legendaries that can be hard to handle so it gets a bit annoying when you play on a low budget deck

but there are decks like kripp's Control the Drakes that do incredibly well w/o expensive cards if you want to try other decks

Might result me dropping them altogether, at least Sense Demons will more likely give me jaraxxus then.

Where are the upcomming changes posted? -3 HP for Flame Imp? I cant find a link on Google for any upcomming changes at all...Can someone provide me w/ one?

The only situation where I think Flame Imp might be too strong is with a turn 1 coin into both Blood Imp and Flame Imp. Some classes can't deal with that very well, and most classes need super specific cards to do it. But that situation requires a lot of luck to even occur in the first place.

Flame Imp or Blood Imp or Warlock hero ability deserves a modest nerf.  Any one of the 3 is fine.  Mage also needs a modest nerf.

However, the bigger problem is Shattered Sun Cleric, Dark Iron Dwarf and Defender of Argus.  These cards are in 90% of winning decks.  I'm glad the Cleric was nerfed.

There's incredible value in getting to be the first person to attack, so much value that Flame Imp deserves the nerf.  A common scenario that people are erroneously calling balanced is turn A1 Flame Imp -> turn B1 Leper Gnome turn A2 Flame Imp kills Leper Gnome; play Faerie Dragon.  Player A has the tempo advantage.  They get to choose who to attack, get to maximize the benefit of a Shattered Sun Cleric buff and ultimately get to snowball their board advantage.  They have a full board on turn 6 because they got a 3/2 on turn 1.

The weakness to this aggro strategy of securing tempo -> securing board control -> winning is that the Warlock must play inefficient cards which should eventually lose to more efficient mid and late game cards.  Efficiency here is measured as value per card, not value per mana.  However, Flame Imp + Blood Imp + Shattered Sun Cleric + Dark Iron Dwarf + Warlock hero ability all allow him to too effectively overcome his inefficiency.

The only class that fares well against Warlock is Mage who is able to even more effectively capitalize on Shattered Sun Cleric, Defender of Argus and Dark Iron Dwarf through Mirror Image and Arcane Missiles.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand it got nerfed lol.  Still a very strong card even with -3 health.

And yes the guy above me, those neutrals need nerfs.  It's annoying seeing the same cards in every deck no matter the class. Argus is just waaaaaaaaaaaaay too strong imo.  There shouldn't be any MUST HAVE cards.  Cleric, Argus and Argent Commander are all must have in more or less almost every deck.

Quote from elfenyu »

I'm not saying Imp is really op (admittedly they are "nerfing" it) but it's super good and the reasoning as to why its not, is beyond me.

"if you remove it before it can hit you, you are taking 2 damage for nothing"  - Nope, You are trading a card for a card, maybe even coin + card for a card and they have to use their turn to deal with it, so You get to drop another creature to the empty board next turn keeping the tempo on Your side, taking 2 damage is not even a drawback...its nothing, I would pay that price any day if it means that you can get the tempo on Your side, I toke willingly 15 damage in 3 turns because it meant that after that I had 3 creatures on board vs my opponents 0 = from that point on he was not able to attack me once because I had board control.

"I place Loot Hoarder the following turn and it trades"..... really? First of all You would have to coin that out, and then comes hes next turn he play another minion out (most likely voidwalker or blood imp, cleric) and You won't be able to trade, or some other minion and once again You are 1 minion behind, or maybe he even soulfires Your hoarder and You are 2 minions behind etc. (and don't say, "but in that case I gain card advantage...its warlock)

And yes it's fairly easy to handle since it has 2 hp, but still its super strong, it forces your opponent to deal with it immediately and combined with cards like demonfire, woidwalker, blood imp, cleric it's maybe little bit 2 strong

this x1000

Quote from JEFFY40HANDS »

Now they're upping the health cost to 3, so it's effectively 4 mana for a 3/2....If you want to look at it that way as I do, meaning I'll probably stop running them in my decks altogether. Not worth it to me when throwing down a Faerie Dragon costs me 2 mana and can avoid spells/hero powers meaning early game single target removal is unusable (unless chained with a silence). Then again that is more of my still rather inexperienced opinion, I can see the appeal of insta-taunting early game removal to open up your hand a bit more by throwing down Flame Imp, but at the same time it feels like it might be too much. We'll have to wait and see.

 

What?  3 health is the same thing as 3 mana?  No. not ever.  It's effectively 1 mana for a 3/2 becuase that's the cost lol.

I didn't catch what Jeffy said. Absolutely no way is 1 health:1 mana a viable form of calculating cost. That is probably one of the most misinformed judgments you can subscribe to.

Some examples following this format:
Drain Life would be a 0 mana 2 damage
Earthen Farseer is a 0 mana 3/3
Holy Light is a +4 mana 6 heal

Also, there's "must have" cards in any card game you play, staples exist in some form due to the need for consistency. There's always going to be Dark Assassins, Cyber Dragons, Jace Architect of Thought, Cherens, etc

To me it made sense equating HP as though it were mana. To me if I'm  spending/losing something then the effective unit cost made sense. 1 mana+ 2HP made sense that it was to me a 3 unit 3/2. But the way you put it Aishi does make a valid point, one that I didn't think about. I was focusing on the loss of HP as though it was an additional tax I had to pay to rationalize the mana cost for a 1 mana 3/2. Taking into account cards that heal or add armor didn't cross my mind because to me I was paying mana and only mana to reap their benefits. So narrowly equating 1 HP:1 mana is incorrect. Maybe equating HP cost/mana cost at all is wrong narrow or broad. I'm still trying to pick things up as I go along, for instance understanding how to maximize cost/benefit of a minion. Something like Cult Master on a turn where you trade 2-3 or more minions to net the card draw, the value of the card becomes much more than that initial 4 mana. At some point I guess I just took that a bit too far thus thinking HP has some sort of equivalent to mana. 

Quote from WinDyKai »

that's all good, I'm just saying that ranking DOES mean something, not that you're bad or anything, sorry if it came off that way

I just copied aishi's Warlock Low Mana Rush deck and got to masters in about 70 games, i started before a lot of people played so there wasnt legendaries everywhere. now that people have some investment in the game you see so many legendaries that can be hard to handle so it gets a bit annoying when you play on a low budget deck

but there are decks like kripp's Control the Drakes that do incredibly well w/o expensive cards if you want to try other decks

No worries, it does get annoying contending with people that seem to stack legendaries. I mean it's fun to work around them, but then sometimes someone drops Ragnaros and RNG smacks you in the face...

Random side note/OT: Just had a game where the opposing pally dropped Tirion on me, but I was able to pop his shield with my Shieldmasta, Fireball'd it then tossed down my Acidic Ooze on turn 8. It was quite satisfying.

Quite simple if the warlock didn't have its early game strength built around void walker, blood imp, flame imp the warlock overall would be an incredibly weak class, with the early game trio it allows some staying power for the mid and late game