There's probably going to be some more good draw or self-damage cards in the set, but I'm starting with this as a framework.
With so many damage spells, and a need for more draw I thought Thalnos made a lot of sense. Has nice synergy with Hellfire, Nathrezim, Drain Soul, Mortal Coil and Unstable Shadow Blast (so like 10 cards in the deck).
I'm not actually sure how Stealer of Souls interacts with the quest. I BELIEVE the health costs count as self-damage.
With Backdraft, Tour Guide, and a low curve (so lots of life tapping) I felt like the deckless cards made a lot of sense. Could probably take or leave them, though.
Healing seems really important too, so lots of healing spells.
What do you think of Mo'arg Artificer? Seems powerful with all the damage spells and depending on how it works with unstable shadow blast, it is either a 12 damage removal and just take some damage, or enough damage to complete a step of questline by itself. Prolly the former though, considering how piercing shot works, but still. Also drain soul and the new 1 mana removal will also provide a lot of healing for cheap.
If Stealer of Souls works with the quest, and even more so with the quest reward, (and given the wording on both, it should) I already know which card will finally see a well-deserved nerf and consequently an un-ban in wild.
I would probably cut the Neeru for a Flesh Giant or another draw/self-harm cad in your list because it honestly doesn't do that much for your deck. You can just draw twice each turn and burn your opponent to death anyway when you reach the end of your deck. I also have a feeling that Hellfire won't be needed and that the deck might focus more on Stealer + card draw + heal than actual self-damage cards. Siphon Soul to 1 or 0 probably, because the mana cost/healing ratio is too high. I think we will see a rather fast burn me/burn you deck that will go off somewhere between turn 7 and 9-10, depending on how your opponent can react to Stealer. It's also quite funny that you could add Jaraxxus and use your weapon to damage yourself by swinging into big minions, but that's probably not viable.
Wild self-harm warlock will probably be a lot of fun to play. Questiline reward into Hemet into self-harm OTK could be a possibility.
This deck looks like absolute madness and I love it. I hope it's as strong as it seems, because I want to play this.
Draw cards, blow up your opponent, blow up yourself, draw more cards. Win naturally.
I also agree that the hellfires are probably not necessary, especially considering all the little spells you have in the early game to control the board. What I'm wondering is if one twisting nether might be necessary. In case your opponent has a big swing onto the board. Also good to note that the final questline reward is a 7 mana 7/7 that does nothing that turn.
Also good to note that the final questline reward is a 5 mana 7/7 that does nothing that turn.
Fixed that for you.
Imo not really a big mana commitment when almost all of your deck costs 3 or less and you are already at 7+ mana.
I can't wait to see the other questlines. Let's hope that the rogue and priest rewards can't stack or else returning to hand and Raise Dead will be a big problem.
Also good to note that the final questline reward is a 5 mana 7/7 that does nothing that turn.
Fixed that for you.
Imo not really a big mana commitment when almost all of your deck costs 3 or less and you are already at 7+ mana.
I can't wait to see the other questlines. Let's hope that the rogue and priest rewards can't stack or else returning to hand and Raise Dead will be a big problem.
Oh, my bad. I could have sworn I saw it was a 7 mana guy, or is that the Varden one instead?
Anyway, that makes it much better.
EDIT: I see on the official site they're both 5 mana 7/7s. Guess it's just my eyes that don't work.
So really it's the opposite of tempo loss if you can play that on curve. That really emphasizes the power of these questlines and being able to get them complete early. Nice.
I'm not actually sure how Stealer of Souls interacts with the quest. I BELIEVE the health costs count as self-damage.
Cards that cost Health instead of Mana definitely count as damage, as the Health loss is prevented by effects that prevent damage.
Since The Demon Seed only cares about taking damage during your turns (I would avoid calling it "self-damage"), the interaction with Stealer of Souls should work as expected. It's good, but probably not OP. I doubt it will lead to the nerf some people are predicting.
As for the deck overall, you're going to need a lot more healing. Delete the Mortal Coils and add Spice Bread Baker or whatever other healing options may surface in the expansion.
I also agree that the hellfires are probably not necessary, especially considering all the little spells you have in the early game to control the board.
I think it's worth strongly considering Hellfire because it helps complete the quest and doubles as a finisher after you complete the quest. That's 6 damage to the opponent, 10 if you topdeck it off Backfire with Stealer of Souls in play, effectively making it a 0-mana Pyroblast. And the damage to your opponent benefits twice from any spellpower, if that's ever a factor. You just need to sequence correctly so you don't kill off your own minions prematurely.
Also good to note that the final questline reward is a 7 mana 7/7 that does nothing that turn.
Correction: Blightborn Tamsin is a 5 mana 7/7 that redirects any damage you take on your turn back to your opponent, starting on the turn you play her. Factoring in Runed Mithril Rod and Free Admission, she's effectively a game ender when paired with a discounted Stealer of Souls, which you can reliably get down to 2 mana or less, not that you even really need to.
You can drop those two together and start drawing out the remainder of your deck, as spells you draw will cost your opponent's health and your Fatigue will also be redirected to your opponent.
@OP I'm not sure you need Neeru Fireblade, even if the goal is decking yourself. He's still really slow.
I do like the idea of running Mo'arg Artificers, if only to combo with Unstable Shadow Blast as a secondary finisher. Very similar to OTK DH, you might even consider running more of that package (Felosophy + spell damage). And Tamsin can get you 0 mana copies of Unstable Shadow Blast. Play a couple Artificers, hit some minions for 24 damage, and bounce the overkill right to you opponent's face. I like it.
I also wonder if it might be worth running Hand of Gul'dan and Nightshade Matron. You're not playing anything over 5 mana so it would reliably be the most expensive card in your hand, making Matron + tap a viable option for triggering Arcane Rod ticks. And if you topdeck it during your Stealer of Souls finisher turn, it becomes 0 mana deal 6 to your opponent, draw 3. If you get the Matron off Free Admission, that's a 2 mana 5/5 with Rush. Might be worth cutting some single target removal.
Running Matron and Artificer might make Free Admission too inconsistent, and Matron without Hand could make the discard bad, but... with Hand of Gul'dan, Backfire, and Mithril Rod, maybe you've got enough draw and discounts anyway. Worth consideration, at least.
If there's enough self damage without them, maybe you can cut the Flame Imps. Also would make Kanrethad Prime more valuable. If all you're getting off Kanrethad is 3/2 imps I don't think it's worth running Kanrethad. Better if you can use him to set up Artificers and Stealer of Souls as another possible finisher.
There are definitely a lot of ways to try and build this. It conceivably works with both Zoo and Control archetypes...
This is a deck that I'd want to test a lot. Cards like Spice Bread Baker, I dunno how many cards I'd hold in hand with such a low curve. But I put a less conditional heal than Bristleback in because face decks are likely to remain popular. Death's head Cultist seemed like the fairest one.
Mo'arg seemed smart to me. Matron & Hand is always something on my radar, but I feel like it's too inconsistent. But I could see maybe a purely demon-based version of this deck maybe with Free Admission. I kinda feel like the deck does need more card draw, so maybe when more cards are revealed I'll make a pure demon version with Hand and Free Admission.
Flesh Giant seems like a good option just because it can drop to a 0 cost card. But I don't think it really jives with the deck's control plan.
Hellfire is purely for the self-damage. Especially if it hits a threshold. I feel like the quest itself might actually be kind of hard to complete, 21 self-damage (and I think it HAS to be in separate instances of 6, 7 and 8) is a ton.
I also agree that the hellfires are probably not necessary, especially considering all the little spells you have in the early game to control the board.
I think it's worth strongly considering Hellfire because it helps complete the quest and doubles as a finisher after you complete the quest. That's 6 damage to the opponent, 10 if you topdeck it off Backfire with Stealer of Souls in play, effectively making it a 0-mana Pyroblast. And the damage to your opponent benefits twice from any spellpower, if that's ever a factor. You just need to sequence correctly so you don't kill off your own minions prematurely.
Also good to note that the final questline reward is a 7 mana 7/7 that does nothing that turn.
Correction: Blightborn Tamsin is a 5 mana 7/7 that redirects any damage you take on your turn back to your opponent, starting on the turn you play her.
I do like the idea of running Mo'arg Artificers, if only to combo with Unstable Shadow Blast as a secondary finisher. Very similar to OTK DH, you might even consider running more of that package (Felosophy + spell damage). And Tamsin can get you 0 mana copies of Unstable Shadow Blast. Play a couple Artificers, hit some minions for 24 damage, and bounce the overkill right to you opponent's face. I like it.
Thanks for the correction. I see that I was mistaken about the cost of the final reward minions.
I also didn't consider using Hellfire after completing the questline. That really makes it even spicier. Definitely a good idea.
Regarding the overkill damage to face, I'm wondering if that actually works... has anyone ever tested it with shadow blast? I recall someone talking about a cute hunter combo using Mo'args and piecing shot back when it was revealed, but it was discovered that the overkill damage to the minion didn't translate to a buttload of face damage. I would guess the same applies to the mechanics of shadow blast.
I definitely see a lot of potential for this deck, but it will be a balancing act of staying alive while you complete the questline, I think. As with everything else, some experimentation will be needed.
Was talking with a friend and there's also the possibility of working Darkglare in there. You can make copies with Raise Dead or possibly Felosophy, and potentially discount them to 1 or 0 mana quite reliably between Free Admission and Runed Mithril Rod.
It's not quite a card draw engine, but between Tour Guide, Free Admission, Backfire, and maybe Matron & Hand, you could potentially have some really disgusting turns where you get a couple cheap or free Darkglares on the board and then just start chaining card draw, discounts, self-damage/healing, and crystal refreshes. With multiple draw three effects, the chances of chaining them together is fairly high.
You could weave in discounted Flame Imps you draw, killing them yourself with Touch of the Nathrezim or Drain Soul, Raise Dead, and drop more Flame Imps. Refreshing 2 crystals each time you take damage if you have the Darkglares in play already. All of those are really cheap. Hell, Runed Mithril Rod is cheap enough that you could chain one into the next if the draws line up correctly.
If that works out, the bigger problem would be having enough APM to pull everything off before you rope.
Obviously this would need to be thoroughly tested. It's fun to imagine but the opponent might just never let you do that. Really depends on how decent warlock is at controlling early game aggression.
Quote from Pherosizm>>t I was mistaken about the cost of the final reward minions.
Regarding the overkill damage to face, I'm wondering if that actually works... has anyone ever tested it with shadow blast? I recall someone talking about a cute hunter combo using Mo'args and piecing shot back when it was revealed, but it was discovered that the overkill damage to the minion didn't translate to a buttload of face damage. I would guess the same applies to the mechanics of shadow blast.
Yeah, looking into that you seem to be right. It doubles the damage the minion takes, not the damage dealt by the spell.
Also, it's really hard to fit all this stuff into one deck, so you really do have to pick and choose.
Also, it's really hard to fit all this stuff into one deck, so you really do have to pick and choose.
You have a good start, so it's probably time to sit and wait for the rest of the reveals. Better things are sure to come along, so for now just note the cards with the least synergy and replace them as you are able.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
https://playhearthstone.com/deckbuilder?deckcode=AAECAf0GBIT7A5egBPLtA/PtAw3XzgOD+wOEoATnoASI7wOT5AOPnwTWzgPw7QObzQOCoASxnwSK7wMA
There's probably going to be some more good draw or self-damage cards in the set, but I'm starting with this as a framework.
With so many damage spells, and a need for more draw I thought Thalnos made a lot of sense. Has nice synergy with Hellfire, Nathrezim, Drain Soul, Mortal Coil and Unstable Shadow Blast (so like 10 cards in the deck).
I'm not actually sure how Stealer of Souls interacts with the quest. I BELIEVE the health costs count as self-damage.
With Backdraft, Tour Guide, and a low curve (so lots of life tapping) I felt like the deckless cards made a lot of sense. Could probably take or leave them, though.
Healing seems really important too, so lots of healing spells.
I would include at least a Flesh giant, considering that you should be able to play it for 0 by turn 4 or 5.
You face Jaraxxus, Eredar lord of the... sacrificial pact
What do you think of Mo'arg Artificer? Seems powerful with all the damage spells and depending on how it works with unstable shadow blast, it is either a 12 damage removal and just take some damage, or enough damage to complete a step of questline by itself. Prolly the former though, considering how piercing shot works, but still. Also drain soul and the new 1 mana removal will also provide a lot of healing for cheap.
If Stealer of Souls works with the quest, and even more so with the quest reward, (and given the wording on both, it should) I already know which card will finally see a well-deserved nerf and consequently an un-ban in wild.
I would probably cut the Neeru for a Flesh Giant or another draw/self-harm cad in your list because it honestly doesn't do that much for your deck. You can just draw twice each turn and burn your opponent to death anyway when you reach the end of your deck. I also have a feeling that Hellfire won't be needed and that the deck might focus more on Stealer + card draw + heal than actual self-damage cards. Siphon Soul to 1 or 0 probably, because the mana cost/healing ratio is too high. I think we will see a rather fast burn me/burn you deck that will go off somewhere between turn 7 and 9-10, depending on how your opponent can react to Stealer. It's also quite funny that you could add Jaraxxus and use your weapon to damage yourself by swinging into big minions, but that's probably not viable.
Wild self-harm warlock will probably be a lot of fun to play. Questiline reward into Hemet into self-harm OTK could be a possibility.
This deck looks like absolute madness and I love it. I hope it's as strong as it seems, because I want to play this.
Draw cards, blow up your opponent, blow up yourself, draw more cards. Win naturally.
I also agree that the hellfires are probably not necessary, especially considering all the little spells you have in the early game to control the board. What I'm wondering is if one twisting nether might be necessary. In case your opponent has a big swing onto the board. Also good to note that the final questline reward is a 7 mana 7/7 that does nothing that turn.
Flesh giants seem like a decent fit, too, though.
Fixed that for you.
Imo not really a big mana commitment when almost all of your deck costs 3 or less and you are already at 7+ mana.
I can't wait to see the other questlines. Let's hope that the rogue and priest rewards can't stack or else returning to hand and Raise Dead will be a big problem.
Oh, my bad. I could have sworn I saw it was a 7 mana guy, or is that the Varden one instead?
Anyway, that makes it much better.
EDIT: I see on the official site they're both 5 mana 7/7s. Guess it's just my eyes that don't work.
So really it's the opposite of tempo loss if you can play that on curve. That really emphasizes the power of these questlines and being able to get them complete early. Nice.
Both were 5 mana as far as I remember.
Cards that cost Health instead of Mana definitely count as damage, as the Health loss is prevented by effects that prevent damage.
Since The Demon Seed only cares about taking damage during your turns (I would avoid calling it "self-damage"), the interaction with Stealer of Souls should work as expected. It's good, but probably not OP. I doubt it will lead to the nerf some people are predicting.
As for the deck overall, you're going to need a lot more healing. Delete the Mortal Coils and add Spice Bread Baker or whatever other healing options may surface in the expansion.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I think it's worth strongly considering Hellfire because it helps complete the quest and doubles as a finisher after you complete the quest. That's 6 damage to the opponent, 10 if you topdeck it off Backfire with Stealer of Souls in play, effectively making it a 0-mana Pyroblast. And the damage to your opponent benefits twice from any spellpower, if that's ever a factor. You just need to sequence correctly so you don't kill off your own minions prematurely.
Correction: Blightborn Tamsin is a 5 mana 7/7 that redirects any damage you take on your turn back to your opponent, starting on the turn you play her. Factoring in Runed Mithril Rod and Free Admission, she's effectively a game ender when paired with a discounted Stealer of Souls, which you can reliably get down to 2 mana or less, not that you even really need to.
You can drop those two together and start drawing out the remainder of your deck, as spells you draw will cost your opponent's health and your Fatigue will also be redirected to your opponent.
@OP I'm not sure you need Neeru Fireblade, even if the goal is decking yourself. He's still really slow.
I do like the idea of running Mo'arg Artificers, if only to combo with Unstable Shadow Blast as a secondary finisher. Very similar to OTK DH, you might even consider running more of that package (Felosophy + spell damage). And Tamsin can get you 0 mana copies of Unstable Shadow Blast. Play a couple Artificers, hit some minions for 24 damage, and bounce the overkill right to you opponent's face. I like it.
I also wonder if it might be worth running Hand of Gul'dan and Nightshade Matron. You're not playing anything over 5 mana so it would reliably be the most expensive card in your hand, making Matron + tap a viable option for triggering Arcane Rod ticks. And if you topdeck it during your Stealer of Souls finisher turn, it becomes 0 mana deal 6 to your opponent, draw 3. If you get the Matron off Free Admission, that's a 2 mana 5/5 with Rush. Might be worth cutting some single target removal.
Running Matron and Artificer might make Free Admission too inconsistent, and Matron without Hand could make the discard bad, but... with Hand of Gul'dan, Backfire, and Mithril Rod, maybe you've got enough draw and discounts anyway. Worth consideration, at least.
If there's enough self damage without them, maybe you can cut the Flame Imps. Also would make Kanrethad Prime more valuable. If all you're getting off Kanrethad is 3/2 imps I don't think it's worth running Kanrethad. Better if you can use him to set up Artificers and Stealer of Souls as another possible finisher.
There are definitely a lot of ways to try and build this. It conceivably works with both Zoo and Control archetypes...
https://playhearthstone.com/deckbuilder?deckcode=AAECAf0GBIT7A5egBPLtA8HRAw3pvgPXzgOEoASD+wPnoASI7wPWzgOPnwSK7wOT5AOY6gObzQOxnwQA
Made some updates.
This is a deck that I'd want to test a lot. Cards like Spice Bread Baker, I dunno how many cards I'd hold in hand with such a low curve. But I put a less conditional heal than Bristleback in because face decks are likely to remain popular. Death's head Cultist seemed like the fairest one.
Mo'arg seemed smart to me. Matron & Hand is always something on my radar, but I feel like it's too inconsistent. But I could see maybe a purely demon-based version of this deck maybe with Free Admission. I kinda feel like the deck does need more card draw, so maybe when more cards are revealed I'll make a pure demon version with Hand and Free Admission.
Flesh Giant seems like a good option just because it can drop to a 0 cost card. But I don't think it really jives with the deck's control plan.
Hellfire is purely for the self-damage. Especially if it hits a threshold. I feel like the quest itself might actually be kind of hard to complete, 21 self-damage (and I think it HAS to be in separate instances of 6, 7 and 8) is a ton.
Thanks for the correction. I see that I was mistaken about the cost of the final reward minions.
I also didn't consider using Hellfire after completing the questline. That really makes it even spicier. Definitely a good idea.
Regarding the overkill damage to face, I'm wondering if that actually works... has anyone ever tested it with shadow blast? I recall someone talking about a cute hunter combo using Mo'args and piecing shot back when it was revealed, but it was discovered that the overkill damage to the minion didn't translate to a buttload of face damage. I would guess the same applies to the mechanics of shadow blast.
I definitely see a lot of potential for this deck, but it will be a balancing act of staying alive while you complete the questline, I think. As with everything else, some experimentation will be needed.
Was talking with a friend and there's also the possibility of working Darkglare in there. You can make copies with Raise Dead or possibly Felosophy, and potentially discount them to 1 or 0 mana quite reliably between Free Admission and Runed Mithril Rod.
It's not quite a card draw engine, but between Tour Guide, Free Admission, Backfire, and maybe Matron & Hand, you could potentially have some really disgusting turns where you get a couple cheap or free Darkglares on the board and then just start chaining card draw, discounts, self-damage/healing, and crystal refreshes. With multiple draw three effects, the chances of chaining them together is fairly high.
You could weave in discounted Flame Imps you draw, killing them yourself with Touch of the Nathrezim or Drain Soul, Raise Dead, and drop more Flame Imps. Refreshing 2 crystals each time you take damage if you have the Darkglares in play already. All of those are really cheap. Hell, Runed Mithril Rod is cheap enough that you could chain one into the next if the draws line up correctly.
If that works out, the bigger problem would be having enough APM to pull everything off before you rope.
Obviously this would need to be thoroughly tested. It's fun to imagine but the opponent might just never let you do that. Really depends on how decent warlock is at controlling early game aggression.
Yeah, looking into that you seem to be right. It doubles the damage the minion takes, not the damage dealt by the spell.
Also, it's really hard to fit all this stuff into one deck, so you really do have to pick and choose.
You have a good start, so it's probably time to sit and wait for the rest of the reveals. Better things are sure to come along, so for now just note the cards with the least synergy and replace them as you are able.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I think it's just multiple builds of the same deck archetype honestly.
https://playhearthstone.com/deckbuilder?deckcode=AAECAf0GAoT7A+zRAw6EoATLuQOK7wO2uQPpoASV3gOT5AO1uQPXzgO98QOI7wPnoASD+wOPnwQA
Maybe something like this for a Free Admission build?
It's really hard to make a deck like this without Tamsin. Maybe you just risk it and run her.
This is my first take on this deck idea:
https://playhearthstone.com/deckbuilder?deckcode=AAECAf0GCIT7A4+fBPLtA4WgBJjqA9f5A5jqA4+fBAuD+wPnoASI7wPw7QOT5AP44wPx7QODoATA+QPXzgOCoAQA
Might need some more self-damage though.