That + the pain package of Darkglare, Diseased Vulture, Neferset Thrasher together with the new cards Flesh Giant and Tour Guide + the new option of using Expired Merchant not for drawing 3 cards, but often for duplicating your Giants make the Self Damage Zoolock a very viable tier-2 deck in standard. A tough one to play though as you always need to be on alert and calculate how much self-damage you can afford to take...
Meanwhile in wild, Darkglare Warlock has completely destroyed the game. So overall Warlock is in a pretty good spot I would say...
Now tell me, which legendary is good for which archetype given that Blizzard always offers all three archetypes (Aggro, Combo, Control) and tries to boost them for each class in every expansion ? Nah, don't read further, try it yourself. Ok, here is the solution:
Disciplinarian Gandling: Aggro, with Desk Imp, Fiendish Servant, Chaos Gazer and other smaller demons (feel free to filter your collection now ;) ) relatively broken, THE Combo destroyer (which aggro is designed for). Add the lackey package (Boneweb Egg + EVIL Genius) and Hand of Gul'dan + Nightshade Matron and you are good to go. Remember not to shuffle in too many spells since this is a minion based deck, as all aggro decks should be (the only spell you def. need is Felosophy). Bonus Tip: Hand of Gul'dan is your highest cost card in the deck! And you will need Kanrethad Ebonlocke too! Remember, you want to be able to play a minion every single turn!
Now what counters aggro? Yes, control...
Soulciologist Malicia: Control, with all the Soul Fragment cards which are all defensive (Heal and Taunts) this is the new package you should use in control (thats where you need your Void Drinkers). No, we don't want to develop a board up until turn 5ish (School Spirits, *cough*) Now you only have to fill the gaps (look at the mana curve!!!) to make an efficient board centric control deck. Bonus Tip: Early boardclears, big defensive minions in endgame. Of course, like all control decks, you are vulnerable to...guess what...combo! So here we are with...
Archwitch Willow: Combo. Given that combo is designed to counter control we need to think about the game mechanics which are super efficient vs. Control and that is (and now it gets a bit more complicated and there will be more text):
- Sticky Minions, so boardclears and single target removal spells are pretty much useless (Deathrattles!) or force your opponent to use at least 2 cards to remove 1 card! Here is a list of Combo Deathrattle cards which crush Control but are pretty useless against Aggro! They sacifice stats for their ability to stay on the board and deal less but constant damage.
Now: Blizzard gets really creative when it comes to Combo decks and this is actually the only archetype where you can really go nuts with hidden game mechanics. Here are two examples: Fel Summoner + Imprisoned Antaen. Again, both cards pretty useless against Aggro which is intended, but Control will struggle. Why? If Fel Summoner picks Imprisoned Antaen and puts it on the board you not only have an untargetable minion (Removals!!) which is immune to board clears and will definitely trigger its ability and usually hit face (since control doesn't like playing minions early on) once it awakens. You also will be able to trigger its Dormant effect 1 turn earlier because if your (ideally) control-opponent kills the Fel Summoner the Imprisoned Antaengets placed on your opponents turn! Shuffle in all those swarmy Illidari Cards + Feast of Souls+ Nethrandamus and two sticky Coilfang Warlords + Pit Commander and add Blood Herald and Fel Guardians from the new expansion and there you have the Combo Deck Blizzard used in testing.
Venomizer + Missile Launcher. This Combo was extremely powerful when Deathrattle Bomb Hunter was a thing back in the Boomsday expansion. It's an 8 Mana Combo and is great after a Boommaster Flark to detonate your own bombs as well as get rid of all the opponents minions. Because of all those 0/2 Goblin Bombs Control can't really use boardclears but if they leave them on the board Hunter could magnetize them. And here we are at the next mechanic control struggles with and that is:
- Unblockable Damage. While some classes like to spam the board with big minions (Warlock, Demon Hunter, Hunter, Druid) other classes have their own Combo way of dealing with Control and that is Bombs or even Weapons (yes, blockable by Taunt but still very valuable). And Blizzard likes to introduce different Combo mechanics to all classes over the course of several expansions (we had Deathrattle Rogue, Deathrattle Druid etc.)
Shuffling in Bombs is most efficient vs. an opponent who will usually try to drag out the game further (more bombs will be drawn and trigger). Thats also balanced in a way that aggro doesn't have so much struggle with bombs since they aim to finish off the opponent by turn 6/7 and only use half of the deck most of the time anyway, thus not drawing all bombs. And since Control is very board centric, they can't deal with that unblockable damage except heal. But the value those bombs have in combination is so crazy that the heal will not be enough. Most recent example: Wrenchcalibur + Doctor Krastinov. Again, Krastinov sacrifices stats to boost the weapon in combination. Mage is using big spells here instead (but that would probably make this already very long post explode). Hint: in Classic it was big spell Combo with Fireball, Pyroblast, Ice Lance, Frostbolt and Ragnaros the Firelord. (Fun Fact: If you read the Imp Gang Boss flavor text there is even confirmation for that :P). Ragnaros came back to Mage in the form of Jan'alai, the Dragonhawk in Rastakhan's Rumble.
Ok so to summarize: Unblockable Damage as well as sticky minions are hard to deal with for Control and are designed to beat them. We can summarize both effects to one word and that is: Value
So, back to the deck: Yes, you need your Enhanced Dreadlord in this one for Archwitch Willow to work! I know, Plague of Death is a thing but don't worry - you will have enough big ones to overcome that! Plague of Death was only created to balance the Control to Combo interaction. Remember, Combo is designed to counter Control but with the latest expansions the power level of single cards and also combos increases.
Say a pure Combo deck wins vs. a pure Control deck with a chance of 75%-80%. If you now increase the power level of single cards (given that the game mechanics simply don't allow a Control deck to be able to deal with all the threats of an efficient Combo deck), the winrate would increase too. To counter that, some Control cards will get the ability to counter some Combo boards (e.g. Plague of Death or Earthquake). So you have two cards to counter some Combo Deathrattle boards but you are still in a bad position as Control.
- so Value: You want to dry out Control's removals by playing one big minion after another and since Control is very board centric you can and should use your Hero's health as a resource so we need the hero-damaging cards of the new expansion (which usually needs combos to activate) and cards that draw our deck faster or generate more cards for more value - Twisted Knowledge and Demonic Studies. They also make sure you don't lose too many cards in your hand so The Dark Portal is easier to trigger.
Now I don't know if we can afford to use all the Handlock cards Abyssal Summoner and Valdris Felgorge, I believe they are now replaced by all those hero-damaging cards of the Scholomance expansion like Flesh Giant and Brittlebone Destroyer (again, terrible vs. Aggro but great vs. Board Clears and big late game minions). Just use all the new hero-damaging combo cards and fill the gaps (look at the mana curve!) with cards that synergize well and there you have your Combo deck.
Sorry for the wall of text. I will release videos on youtube on that game design stuff in Hearthstone soon so if you are interested...there will be more to it soon!
UPDATE: After tons of testing it seems like Blizzard went the Chip-Damage route fort the aggro archetype for last expansion and is backing that up with the new MatDF cards. Flesh Giant,Brittlebone Destroyer and Raise Dead are part of this aggro deck while Felosophy belongs to the value Combo deck. Here is the link to my aggro deck:
I mean I’m sure it has problems and such, but not many classes have three 3/2’s, a knife juggler, and 2 1/3 taunts on the board. Then refill their hand in two turns With 5-7 cards
This is probably already good moment to bump the thread, as the claims made here proved to be 100% true again. We have another expansion and yet Warlock's situation seems to be exactly the same as before. As an aggro (zoo) he is outdated and limited (no weapons, no burn / burst, no anti-control tools). As control he has no chance against aggresive decks because he lacks strong and reliable source of healing. He also can't compete to outvalue slow and greedy control-ish decks, because he lacks value generation or heavy mana cheating himself (though Tickatus can fix that a little bit if you're lucky to play him early enough and mill some of their key cards).
Overall, I have the impression that Blizzard has no idea what to do with Warlock in the context of the current state of the game. For about 2 years now it's been clear that control cannot exist without healing anymore (because aggro has too much reach and anti-control tools), and yet they are constantly trying to push control archetype for Warlock, not giving him reliable healing source. Zoo is also out of place. DH showed what a modern aggro deck should look like and, in comparison, Warlock is simply outdated (pure board based aggro is laughable in 2020).
This is probably already good moment to bump the thread, as the claims made here proved to be 100% true again. We have another expansion and yet Warlock's situation seems to be exactly the same as before. As an aggro (zoo) he is outdated and limited (no weapons, no burn / burst, no anti-control tools). As control he has no chance against aggresive decks because he lacks strong and reliable source of healing. He also can't compete to outvalue slow and greedy control-ish decks, because he lacks value generation or heavy mana cheating himself (though Tickatus can fix that a little bit if you're lucky to play him early enough and mill some of their key cards).
Overall, I have the impression that Blizzard has no idea what to do with Warlock in the context of the current state of the game. For about 2 years now it's been clear that control cannot exist without healing anymore (because aggro has too much reach and anti-control tools), and yet they are constantly trying to push control archetype for Warlock, not giving him reliable healing source. Zoo is also out of place. DH showed what a modern aggro deck should look like and, in comparison, Warlock is simply outdated (pure board based aggro is laughable in 2020).
This is probably already good moment to bump the thread, as the claims made here proved to be 100% true again. We have another expansion and yet Warlock's situation seems to be exactly the same as before. As an aggro (zoo) he is outdated and limited (no weapons, no burn / burst, no anti-control tools). As control he has no chance against aggresive decks because he lacks strong and reliable source of healing. He also can't compete to outvalue slow and greedy control-ish decks, because he lacks value generation or heavy mana cheating himself (though Tickatus can fix that a little bit if you're lucky to play him early enough and mill some of their key cards).
Overall, I have the impression that Blizzard has no idea what to do with Warlock in the context of the current state of the game. For about 2 years now it's been clear that control cannot exist without healing anymore (because aggro has too much reach and anti-control tools), and yet they are constantly trying to push control archetype for Warlock, not giving him reliable healing source. Zoo is also out of place. DH showed what a modern aggro deck should look like and, in comparison, Warlock is simply outdated (pure board based aggro is laughable in 2020).
My experience so far is that Tickatus decks eat Control (Priest/Warrior mostly), Combo and C'Thun decks. Warlock is doing fine. It's also satisfying to mill Dragonqueen/Zephrys/Other win conditions.
Yes, It's OK against other control decks (yet only if Tickatus clicks), but loses miserably to any aggro deck. And since aggro deck are always the most popular decks in the meta, Control Warlock will be T3 at best, which is meme level.
Yes, It's OK against other control decks (yet only if Tickatus clicks), but loses miserably to any aggro deck. And since aggro deck are always the most popular decks in the meta, Control Warlock will be T3 at best, which is meme level.
Dont bother, warlock needs a complete rework at this point. Lost its aggro niche to DH, lost its control niche to priest rework, the changes to other classes basic/classic sets made warlock redundant, and this will become even more apparent next year once rotation hits. People are still messing with greedy shit rn so tickatus looks good, but once aggro takes over the class will disappear again.
Yes, It's OK against other control decks (yet only if Tickatus clicks), but loses miserably to any aggro deck. And since aggro deck are always the most popular decks in the meta, Control Warlock will be T3 at best, which is meme level.
Dont bother, warlock needs a complete rework at this point. Lost its aggro niche to DH, lost its control niche to priest rework, the changes to other classes basic/classic sets made warlock redundant, and this will become even more apparent next year once rotation hits. People are still messing with greedy shit rn so tickatus looks good, but once aggro takes over the class will disappear again.
Indeed. He should get way better class cards, because his hero power is not that strong and meaningful anymore. Most classes can draw or generate cards pretty efficiently nowadays, so paying 2 mana and 2 HP for each, feels bad and outdated (also because health is now rather valuable resource due to ever growing power creep of aggro).
Right now Warlock has no card generation (which sucks when you have to use standard 30 cards against 60-70 cards played by Rogue, Priest or Mage), no healing, no mana cheating, no value generation, no weapons, no burst, no burn... pretty much nothing. As you said, he is redundant class, worthless and hopeless. Why would you play him, when other classes can do everything better (I mean with at least 50% winrate which is impossible for Warlock right now...)?
Yes, It's OK against other control decks (yet only if Tickatus clicks), but loses miserably to any aggro deck. And since aggro deck are always the most popular decks in the meta, Control Warlock will be T3 at best, which is meme level.
Dont bother, warlock needs a complete rework at this point. Lost its aggro niche to DH, lost its control niche to priest rework, the changes to other classes basic/classic sets made warlock redundant, and this will become even more apparent next year once rotation hits. People are still messing with greedy shit rn so tickatus looks good, but once aggro takes over the class will disappear again.
Indeed. He should get way better class cards, because his hero power is not that strong and meaningful anymore. Most classes can draw or generate cards pretty efficiently nowadays, so paying 2 mana and 2 HP for each, feels bad and outdated (also because health is now rather valuable resource due to ever growing power creep of aggro).
Right now Warlock has no card generation (which sucks when you have to use standard 30 cards against 60-70 cards played by Rogue, Priest or Mage), no healing, no mana cheating, no value generation, no weapons, no burst, no burn... pretty much nothing. As you said, he is redundant class, worthless and hopeless. Why would you play him, when other classes can do everything better (I mean with at least 50% winrate which is impossible for Warlock right now...)?
The Tickatus package does give warlock a new niche though, a control killer. If warrior and priest make a comeback and push aggro down, a control lock list can be viable. Still missing some cards, but im gonna test it for sure.
I wish warlock had a working deck man, but rn it just doesnt, i tried everything. You can reach diamond 5 with your list, but on the climb to legend you get farmed by DHs all day no matter what list you choose. I heard they were planning more class reworks next year, thats the best warlock players can hope for at this point.
It *is* the best in the game. But people are also overtly reliant on it. Warlock has a lot of anti-aggro tools in control match ups, but if you're tapping every turn then they WILL just burn you out.
I think right now this is much more of a case of Demon Hunter and a couple of other classes being either overtuned or having tools they shouldn't (like Blade Dance for example). If they get around to nerfing a lot of these overperforming cards, I think decks like Warlock, Priest, slower Mage and Shaman builds and such will be a lot more attractive.
Warlock has arguably the best hero power which is why it’s cards have often been lower powered.
Yes, warlock is weak to quick decks such as face rogue but then every class has its weaknesses. You can tweak your deck to make it better against the match up or change deck. It has strong match ups against the rest of the meta.
With the current powercreep tho, the little stronger Hero Power can't really compensate the lower card quality anymore. Some classes - mainly Demon Hunter - have access to such broken stuff that the Hero Power just doesn't matter. But I agree that the aggro meta is a problem for two main reasons: 1. it forces people to go aggro or stop aggro, and some classes like Mage, Druid and Warlock just can't do that, and 2. it makes ~50%, probably more of the expansion unplayable because it's too expensive - games end on turn 5-6 - thus making the overall expansion cost even more money if you are aiming to find specific cards.
It *is* the best in the game. But people are also overtly reliant on it. Warlock has a lot of anti-aggro tools in control match ups, but if you're tapping every turn then they WILL just burn you out.
I think right now this is much more of a case of Demon Hunter and a couple of other classes being either overtuned or having tools they shouldn't (like Blade Dance for example). If they get around to nerfing a lot of these overperforming cards, I think decks like Warlock, Priest, slower Mage and Shaman builds and such will be a lot more attractive.
I think its more than that. With the addition of DH and the priest rework, some classes like warlock/druid/mage have simply become outdated. Their basic/classic sets were made at a time when making your total health 15 (Jaraxxus), spending 9 mana on a board buff (Cenarius) and holding cheap spells until turns 8/9 (Antonidas) sounded like a good idea.
Making changes to the evergreen sets mean changing the class dynamics, Team 5 has been way too irresponsable with that, and nerfing/powercreeping the shit out of everything for some classes to get any play is the worst way to fix this imo.
It *is* the best in the game. But people are also overtly reliant on it. Warlock has a lot of anti-aggro tools in control match ups, but if you're tapping every turn then they WILL just burn you out.
I think right now this is much more of a case of Demon Hunter and a couple of other classes being either overtuned or having tools they shouldn't (like Blade Dance for example). If they get around to nerfing a lot of these overperforming cards, I think decks like Warlock, Priest, slower Mage and Shaman builds and such will be a lot more attractive.
I think its more than that. With the addition of DH and the priest rework, some classes like warlock/druid/mage have simply become outdated. Their basic/classic sets were made at a time when making your total health 15 (Jaraxxus), spending 9 mana on a board buff (Cenarius) and holding cheap spells until turns 8/9 (Antonidas) sounded like a good idea.
Making changes to the evergreen sets mean changing the class dynamics, Team 5 has been way too irresponsable with that, and nerfing/powercreeping the shit out of everything for some classes to get any play is the worst way to fix this imo.
Oh certainly they can and should update the evergreen sets. But I'm saying in terms of current balance I think DH and a few others are just very good against a lot of the decks people wanna play.
I don't think Warlock's is particularly bad (Paladin & Shaman are by far the worst in a vacuum) but they honestly do just need to even make small changes (such as making Soulfire discard your highest or lowest cost card instead of a random one).
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That + the pain package of Darkglare, Diseased Vulture, Neferset Thrasher together with the new cards Flesh Giant and Tour Guide + the new option of using Expired Merchant not for drawing 3 cards, but often for duplicating your Giants make the Self Damage Zoolock a very viable tier-2 deck in standard. A tough one to play though as you always need to be on alert and calculate how much self-damage you can afford to take...
Meanwhile in wild, Darkglare Warlock has completely destroyed the game. So overall Warlock is in a pretty good spot I would say...
It's relatively easy folks. We got 3 different legendaries with the new expansion, Disciplinarian Gandling, Archwitch Willow and Soulciologist Malicia.
Now tell me, which legendary is good for which archetype given that Blizzard always offers all three archetypes (Aggro, Combo, Control) and tries to boost them for each class in every expansion ? Nah, don't read further, try it yourself. Ok, here is the solution:
Disciplinarian Gandling: Aggro, with Desk Imp, Fiendish Servant, Chaos Gazer and other smaller demons (feel free to filter your collection now ;) ) relatively broken, THE Combo destroyer (which aggro is designed for). Add the lackey package (Boneweb Egg + EVIL Genius) and Hand of Gul'dan + Nightshade Matron and you are good to go. Remember not to shuffle in too many spells since this is a minion based deck, as all aggro decks should be (the only spell you def. need is Felosophy). Bonus Tip: Hand of Gul'dan is your highest cost card in the deck! And you will need Kanrethad Ebonlocke too! Remember, you want to be able to play a minion every single turn!
Now what counters aggro? Yes, control...
Soulciologist Malicia: Control, with all the Soul Fragment cards which are all defensive (Heal and Taunts) this is the new package you should use in control (thats where you need your Void Drinkers). No, we don't want to develop a board up until turn 5ish (School Spirits, *cough*) Now you only have to fill the gaps (look at the mana curve!!!) to make an efficient board centric control deck. Bonus Tip: Early boardclears, big defensive minions in endgame. Of course, like all control decks, you are vulnerable to...guess what...combo! So here we are with...
Archwitch Willow: Combo. Given that combo is designed to counter control we need to think about the game mechanics which are super efficient vs. Control and that is (and now it gets a bit more complicated and there will be more text):
- Sticky Minions, so boardclears and single target removal spells are pretty much useless (Deathrattles!) or force your opponent to use at least 2 cards to remove 1 card! Here is a list of Combo Deathrattle cards which crush Control but are pretty useless against Aggro! They sacifice stats for their ability to stay on the board and deal less but constant damage.
Dr. Morrigan, Cairne Bloodhoof (one of the earliest ones, with Cairne on turn 6 and Ancestral Spirit+Faceless Manipulator on Turn 7!), Coilfang Warlord, Rattlegore
Now: Blizzard gets really creative when it comes to Combo decks and this is actually the only archetype where you can really go nuts with hidden game mechanics. Here are two examples: Fel Summoner + Imprisoned Antaen. Again, both cards pretty useless against Aggro which is intended, but Control will struggle. Why? If Fel Summoner picks Imprisoned Antaen and puts it on the board you not only have an untargetable minion (Removals!!) which is immune to board clears and will definitely trigger its ability and usually hit face (since control doesn't like playing minions early on) once it awakens. You also will be able to trigger its Dormant effect 1 turn earlier because if your (ideally) control-opponent kills the Fel Summoner the Imprisoned Antaen gets placed on your opponents turn! Shuffle in all those swarmy Illidari Cards + Feast of Souls+ Nethrandamus and two sticky Coilfang Warlords + Pit Commander and add Blood Herald and Fel Guardians from the new expansion and there you have the Combo Deck Blizzard used in testing.
Venomizer + Missile Launcher. This Combo was extremely powerful when Deathrattle Bomb Hunter was a thing back in the Boomsday expansion. It's an 8 Mana Combo and is great after a Boommaster Flark to detonate your own bombs as well as get rid of all the opponents minions. Because of all those 0/2 Goblin Bombs Control can't really use boardclears but if they leave them on the board Hunter could magnetize them. And here we are at the next mechanic control struggles with and that is:
- Unblockable Damage. While some classes like to spam the board with big minions (Warlock, Demon Hunter, Hunter, Druid) other classes have their own Combo way of dealing with Control and that is Bombs or even Weapons (yes, blockable by Taunt but still very valuable). And Blizzard likes to introduce different Combo mechanics to all classes over the course of several expansions (we had Deathrattle Rogue, Deathrattle Druid etc.)
Shuffling in Bombs is most efficient vs. an opponent who will usually try to drag out the game further (more bombs will be drawn and trigger). Thats also balanced in a way that aggro doesn't have so much struggle with bombs since they aim to finish off the opponent by turn 6/7 and only use half of the deck most of the time anyway, thus not drawing all bombs. And since Control is very board centric, they can't deal with that unblockable damage except heal. But the value those bombs have in combination is so crazy that the heal will not be enough. Most recent example: Wrenchcalibur + Doctor Krastinov. Again, Krastinov sacrifices stats to boost the weapon in combination. Mage is using big spells here instead (but that would probably make this already very long post explode). Hint: in Classic it was big spell Combo with Fireball, Pyroblast, Ice Lance, Frostbolt and Ragnaros the Firelord. (Fun Fact: If you read the Imp Gang Boss flavor text there is even confirmation for that :P). Ragnaros came back to Mage in the form of Jan'alai, the Dragonhawk in Rastakhan's Rumble.
Ok so to summarize: Unblockable Damage as well as sticky minions are hard to deal with for Control and are designed to beat them. We can summarize both effects to one word and that is: Value
So, back to the deck: Yes, you need your Enhanced Dreadlord in this one for Archwitch Willow to work! I know, Plague of Death is a thing but don't worry - you will have enough big ones to overcome that! Plague of Death was only created to balance the Control to Combo interaction. Remember, Combo is designed to counter Control but with the latest expansions the power level of single cards and also combos increases.
Say a pure Combo deck wins vs. a pure Control deck with a chance of 75%-80%. If you now increase the power level of single cards (given that the game mechanics simply don't allow a Control deck to be able to deal with all the threats of an efficient Combo deck), the winrate would increase too. To counter that, some Control cards will get the ability to counter some Combo boards (e.g. Plague of Death or Earthquake). So you have two cards to counter some Combo Deathrattle boards but you are still in a bad position as Control.
- so Value: You want to dry out Control's removals by playing one big minion after another and since Control is very board centric you can and should use your Hero's health as a resource so we need the hero-damaging cards of the new expansion (which usually needs combos to activate) and cards that draw our deck faster or generate more cards for more value - Twisted Knowledge and Demonic Studies. They also make sure you don't lose too many cards in your hand so The Dark Portal is easier to trigger.
Now I don't know if we can afford to use all the Handlock cards Abyssal Summoner and Valdris Felgorge, I believe they are now replaced by all those hero-damaging cards of the Scholomance expansion like Flesh Giant and Brittlebone Destroyer (again, terrible vs. Aggro but great vs. Board Clears and big late game minions). Just use all the new hero-damaging combo cards and fill the gaps (look at the mana curve!) with cards that synergize well and there you have your Combo deck.
Sorry for the wall of text. I will release videos on youtube on that game design stuff in Hearthstone soon so if you are interested...there will be more to it soon!
UPDATE: After tons of testing it seems like Blizzard went the Chip-Damage route fort the aggro archetype for last expansion and is backing that up with the new MatDF cards. Flesh Giant,Brittlebone Destroyer and Raise Dead are part of this aggro deck while Felosophy belongs to the value Combo deck. Here is the link to my aggro deck:
Darkmoon Hurtlock (Legend)
Zoolock Deck
by IceD34ler - Nov 21, 2020
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Minion (24)
- 1x Disciplinarian Gandling
- 1x Kanrethad Ebonlocke
- 2x Darkglare
- 2x Flesh Giant
- 2x Boneweb Egg
- 2x Brittlebone Destroyer
- 2x Animated Broomstick
- 2x Desk Imp
- 2x Fiendish Servant
- 2x Man'ari Mosher
- 2x Midway Maniac
- 2x Neferset Thrasher
- 2x Soulbound Ashtongue
Ability (6)
- 2x Wicked Whispers
- 2x Backfire
- 2x Raise Dead
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I mean I’m sure it has problems and such, but not many classes have three 3/2’s, a knife juggler, and 2 1/3 taunts on the board. Then refill their hand in two turns With 5-7 cards
This is probably already good moment to bump the thread, as the claims made here proved to be 100% true again. We have another expansion and yet Warlock's situation seems to be exactly the same as before. As an aggro (zoo) he is outdated and limited (no weapons, no burn / burst, no anti-control tools). As control he has no chance against aggresive decks because he lacks strong and reliable source of healing. He also can't compete to outvalue slow and greedy control-ish decks, because he lacks value generation or heavy mana cheating himself (though Tickatus can fix that a little bit if you're lucky to play him early enough and mill some of their key cards).
Overall, I have the impression that Blizzard has no idea what to do with Warlock in the context of the current state of the game. For about 2 years now it's been clear that control cannot exist without healing anymore (because aggro has too much reach and anti-control tools), and yet they are constantly trying to push control archetype for Warlock, not giving him reliable healing source. Zoo is also out of place. DH showed what a modern aggro deck should look like and, in comparison, Warlock is simply outdated (pure board based aggro is laughable in 2020).
Still better than Shaman. So you've got that.
Why better? Aggro (totem) Shaman seems to be doing quite well right now, while Warlock has no place in the meta at all.
Aggro Shaman only doing well because people are experimenting with greedy decks. It'll soon die.
My experience so far is that Tickatus decks eat Control (Priest/Warrior mostly), Combo and C'Thun decks. Warlock is doing fine. It's also satisfying to mill Dragonqueen/Zephrys/Other win conditions.
Yes, It's OK against other control decks (yet only if Tickatus clicks), but loses miserably to any aggro deck. And since aggro deck are always the most popular decks in the meta, Control Warlock will be T3 at best, which is meme level.
Dont bother, warlock needs a complete rework at this point. Lost its aggro niche to DH, lost its control niche to priest rework, the changes to other classes basic/classic sets made warlock redundant, and this will become even more apparent next year once rotation hits. People are still messing with greedy shit rn so tickatus looks good, but once aggro takes over the class will disappear again.
If you are intrested in playing wild I play this deck since witchwood - I have 2/3 chance to get Reno Jackson at turn 6.
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1127217-reno-7
Indeed. He should get way better class cards, because his hero power is not that strong and meaningful anymore. Most classes can draw or generate cards pretty efficiently nowadays, so paying 2 mana and 2 HP for each, feels bad and outdated (also because health is now rather valuable resource due to ever growing power creep of aggro).
Right now Warlock has no card generation (which sucks when you have to use standard 30 cards against 60-70 cards played by Rogue, Priest or Mage), no healing, no mana cheating, no value generation, no weapons, no burst, no burn... pretty much nothing. As you said, he is redundant class, worthless and hopeless. Why would you play him, when other classes can do everything better (I mean with at least 50% winrate which is impossible for Warlock right now...)?
The Tickatus package does give Warlock a new niche though,
The Tickatus package does give warlock a new niche though, a control killer. If warrior and priest make a comeback and push aggro down, a control lock list can be viable. Still missing some cards, but im gonna test it for sure.
To OP: You can try this deck and let me know how it works for you :). It has great chip damage synergy and huge board potential:
I wish warlock had a working deck man, but rn it just doesnt, i tried everything. You can reach diamond 5 with your list, but on the climb to legend you get farmed by DHs all day no matter what list you choose. I heard they were planning more class reworks next year, thats the best warlock players can hope for at this point.
warlock hero power is one of the best in the game
It *is* the best in the game. But people are also overtly reliant on it. Warlock has a lot of anti-aggro tools in control match ups, but if you're tapping every turn then they WILL just burn you out.
I think right now this is much more of a case of Demon Hunter and a couple of other classes being either overtuned or having tools they shouldn't (like Blade Dance for example). If they get around to nerfing a lot of these overperforming cards, I think decks like Warlock, Priest, slower Mage and Shaman builds and such will be a lot more attractive.
With the current powercreep tho, the little stronger Hero Power can't really compensate the lower card quality anymore. Some classes - mainly Demon Hunter - have access to such broken stuff that the Hero Power just doesn't matter. But I agree that the aggro meta is a problem for two main reasons: 1. it forces people to go aggro or stop aggro, and some classes like Mage, Druid and Warlock just can't do that, and 2. it makes ~50%, probably more of the expansion unplayable because it's too expensive - games end on turn 5-6 - thus making the overall expansion cost even more money if you are aiming to find specific cards.
I think its more than that. With the addition of DH and the priest rework, some classes like warlock/druid/mage have simply become outdated. Their basic/classic sets were made at a time when making your total health 15 (Jaraxxus), spending 9 mana on a board buff (Cenarius) and holding cheap spells until turns 8/9 (Antonidas) sounded like a good idea.
Making changes to the evergreen sets mean changing the class dynamics, Team 5 has been way too irresponsable with that, and nerfing/powercreeping the shit out of everything for some classes to get any play is the worst way to fix this imo.
Oh certainly they can and should update the evergreen sets. But I'm saying in terms of current balance I think DH and a few others are just very good against a lot of the decks people wanna play.
I don't think Warlock's is particularly bad (Paladin & Shaman are by far the worst in a vacuum) but they honestly do just need to even make small changes (such as making Soulfire discard your highest or lowest cost card instead of a random one).