- The siphons have been working great for me, because those are the only ways I can answer the giants or beefy minions from Spiteful Summoner. I don't disrespect the dolls, but a) I don't have them in my collection (so I can't say anything from first experience), b) I think they are better in a deck featuring the lackey package just because you have more activators and more targets there. Still, sometimes a turn 3/4 Mountain Giant from an Evenlock is a big pain in the ass and the voodoo dolls would function better in that scenario.
- Good to hear, that the girls are working great for you. In the last 2 days I mainly faced aggro and mid-range decks and thus I rarely had the chance to go infinite. That's why I decided to improve the sustainability in the deck. If I'm facing a fast deck, then I have to make sure that I survive. If I'm facing a control one (Priest, Mage) then the infinite combo carries me. But like I said, I don't always face a control deck. It's either tempo rogue (baku or normal), spellhunter, Evenlock, odd paladin or something else. If the meta slows however, I will consider playing them.
- "The hooked reavers have been slightly awkward at times, usually just sitting in my hand in control match ups. It’s another demon for guldan but you don’t get the battle cry so I’m up in the air about it." I don't really care how they are functioning against control, as normally those MUs are winnable. It's more important for me to know how they work against faster/burn decks. Are they still too slow?
I’ve only been able to play a few tempo Mages and even paladins with the deck but it worked great in those matchups. The only thing I could say is may chain gang over them only because so many people have double silence in the deck. Reaver is damn good if they don’t pull silence but chain gang can work around that with two bodies.
I’m currently 3-0 against odd paladins without the hooked reavers and plus a siphon soul. Donno if the loss of call to arms has hurt even paladin enough that it’s gone but haven’t played one yet.
Well, I have faced only one Even Paladin but my opponent didn't put much of a fight.
Thx for your feedback. It's nice to get some information about others' experience with the deck.
Anyway, today I played with the lackey package for a second time in this meta and after I drew badly for several games, I'm almost certain that this isn't profitable in control warlock anymore, or at least in my deck. So I think I should return to the old package (voidwalker + 2x dreadlord). I really want to add an additional demon however. Tomorrow I will include 1-2 Reavers to see how they will function for myself.
Thx for the feedback. Like I said - I'm still figuring out the meta. If I see many combo decks popping up, I will be obligated to add the girls. For now I don't feel like their inclusion is that necessary. Most of my MUs are in the following order - mid-range, aggro, control and combo. In the first two cases I have to find a way to survive, in the third one I'm probably winning thx to the infinite combo.
As for the last case (and the decks you mentioned) - well, that's why I decided to add Rin, as she's my only out versus combo decks and Taunt Druid.
The gnomes have given me much easier wins against some tempo and Tess rogues. Also helped a lot in the taunt Druid matchup as Hillandder said. It may just end depending on what your local meta is.
Very well, tomorrow I will give them a try. Back in K&C I had more success with them thx to the Oracles. Once the Witchwood kicked in, I rarely found a good use for them. Against aggro they just destroyed low value minions, against combo I didn't find them to be reliable. I never actually deleted an important combo piece. What I do remember, is how I screwed warlocks most of the time, but that was due to the fact, that my opponents relied on many good cards. That's why I cut them as soon as the meta stabilized in the first weeks of WW. The Glinda combo felt more than enough. If I needed to counter a specific deck (cubelock, combo priest), then I just had to run the Geist.
But like I said, it won't hurt me to give the girls a try. I included way too many anti-aggro tools, so I just might as well improve the chances against the combo decks.
If the OP can have a word, then I would say that the combo is still strong and still a nice win-condition against some decks. However, imho the glinda package isn't that beneficial in this meta since there aren't that many control decks to counter. Allow me to make a list of the decks I have faced so far since the balance patch arrived (I will mark the most seen ones):
- Warrior: Tаunt Warrior; Baku Tаunt. - Paladin: Odd, Murloc, Even (only once). - aggro in either case. - Hunter: Spellhunter, Mid-range, Baku. - Druid: Taunt Druid, Spiteful Druid. [I also faced a weird Hand Druid, Malydruid and a Togwaggle deck once] - Rogue: Tempo, Baku, Quest (only on the first day). - Shaman: Shudderwock, Even. - Mage: Tempo, Big Spell. - Priest: Quest, Mindblast Priest. - Warlock: Even (ever since it become popular, this is all I'm seeing from this class), Zoo, Cube, Control (only once).
So as you can see, most of my opponents are playing aggro and mid-range decks. The combo players are more than happy, when I give them enough time to assemble their pieces. So most of the cases, where I do win with the Glinda package are against Big Spell Mage, Taunt Warr and Quest Priest. Last season there were a lot more warlocks to counter, so the infinite combo felt great there. But not anymore or at least not for now.
Glinda is still very strong imho, but kinda slow. She's still a nice body against aggro decks and she gets a soft taunt, just because my opponents don't want to let me play multiple taunt minions on my turn.
If you really ask me, control warlock is still viable. Someone just has to find a better demon package and they will be back online. Glinda and the Banker can be replaced in order for this to happen. Trust me, I've got lots of wins due to the strong tools in warlock.
[Note] People are advising me to include the gnomeferatus, just so that I can have better chances against some decks. I don't know if I will have some free time later, as in an hour from now I'll be at work, but I still plan to do another change to the deck and post the results.
I wonder what demon package could be better than Glinda? That’s virtually the only win condition the deck has against other control decks. Gotta depend on what you’re mostly facing if you took the combo out. Not a lot of good demons to run honestly outside of both the lords.
That’s virtually the only win condition the deck has against other control decks. Not a lot of good demons to run honestly outside of both the lords.
Some clarifications: - I didn't personally cut it. I'm still playing the infinite package, but I'm just advising the users on this forum to save themselves 2000 dust and to make their play-styles a bit smoother. I'm pretty sure, that the the control MUs are still winnable if you play carefully and Azari ASAP. - I gotta agree that Glinda is really the most reliable win-condition against them, but please take a look at the list I made above and see the majority of decks I'm facing. Here's a second list:
Aggro (5) - Tempo Mage, Baku Rogue, Odd Paladin, Murloc Paladin, Baku Hunter Mid-range (9) - Spell hunter, Tempo Rogue, Even Warlock, Even Shaman, Spiteful Druid, Miracle Rogue, Zoo, Mid-range hunter, Spiteful Priest Control (6) - Taunt Druid, Quest Priest, Mind Blast Priest* (the win-condition is outlasting the burst), Big Spell Mage, Classic and Baku Warrior Combo (3) - Shudderwock Shaman, Quest Rogue, Cube
{I wrote the decks in an descending popularity order and marked the rare MUs in italic}
It's true, that there a lot of control decks, which I also face, but Taunt Druid and Mind blast Priest don't care if I go infinite. The first one is happy to see how I give them time to form waves of bodies, the latter one just nukes me. So what's left are only three remaining decks (for now) - Quest Priest, Big Spell Mage and Taunt Warrior. If your opponents manage to destroy your Dark Pacts (I think adding one is ok), then you have to buff your spellstone to the max and kill rin with it. Mage doesn't have a reach, you can easily deal with their minions and heal after Alex. Priest is kinda annoying after they play the DK, but they don't pressure you that much and you can find some time to play the seals. Warrior would be the hardest MU since your face can attract the Rag hero power w/o the bankers, but the voidlords produce lots of tokens, which can absorb several hits as well.
So this is my personal opinion. I'll never doubt the power of the infinite package (also of the gnomeferatus), but I just don't think that they are necessary in the current environment.
Thank you, HouseofFrank, for being so active and helpful in this forum. Thanks to all, who have been participating here as well.
So anyway, after I ended today's test, I figured you all were right about the gnomeferatus. Today I faced lots of shudderwock decks and taunt druids and after losing to them badly, I feel convinced that the ladder is very unpredictable. And I mean it in a good way - thx to the variance you don't know for sure what you will be facing. So I decided to make some room for the gnomeferatus in case I have a bad MU.
Tomorrow I will try to come up with another list. I'm thinking of adding 2x dark pacts just to increase the chances of being able to trigger off Rin. I'm also considering crafting and running some voodoo dolls just like you advised me.
A third possibility would be to make the deck an Even one, as only few odd cards function great, but I don't want it to look like a plain copypasta one.
I'm writing this post and I will go to sleep:
- The siphons have been working great for me, because those are the only ways I can answer the giants or beefy minions from Spiteful Summoner. I don't disrespect the dolls, but a) I don't have them in my collection (so I can't say anything from first experience), b) I think they are better in a deck featuring the lackey package just because you have more activators and more targets there. Still, sometimes a turn 3/4 Mountain Giant from an Evenlock is a big pain in the ass and the voodoo dolls would function better in that scenario.
- Good to hear, that the girls are working great for you. In the last 2 days I mainly faced aggro and mid-range decks and thus I rarely had the chance to go infinite. That's why I decided to improve the sustainability in the deck. If I'm facing a fast deck, then I have to make sure that I survive. If I'm facing a control one (Priest, Mage) then the infinite combo carries me. But like I said, I don't always face a control deck. It's either tempo rogue (baku or normal), spellhunter, Evenlock, odd paladin or something else. If the meta slows however, I will consider playing them.
- "The hooked reavers have been slightly awkward at times, usually just sitting in my hand in control match ups. It’s another demon for guldan but you don’t get the battle cry so I’m up in the air about it." I don't really care how they are functioning against control, as normally those MUs are winnable. It's more important for me to know how they work against faster/burn decks. Are they still too slow?
I’ve only been able to play a few tempo Mages and even paladins with the deck but it worked great in those matchups. The only thing I could say is may chain gang over them only because so many people have double silence in the deck. Reaver is damn good if they don’t pull silence but chain gang can work around that with two bodies.
I’m currently 3-0 against odd paladins without the hooked reavers and plus a siphon soul. Donno if the loss of call to arms has hurt even paladin enough that it’s gone but haven’t played one yet.
Well, I have faced only one Even Paladin but my opponent didn't put much of a fight.
Thx for your feedback. It's nice to get some information about others' experience with the deck.
Anyway, today I played with the lackey package for a second time in this meta and after I drew badly for several games, I'm almost certain that this isn't profitable in control warlock anymore, or at least in my deck. So I think I should return to the old package (voidwalker + 2x dreadlord). I really want to add an additional demon however. Tomorrow I will include 1-2 Reavers to see how they will function for myself.
Gnomeferatu is your only chance to win vs shudder and OTK priest.
Thx for the feedback. Like I said - I'm still figuring out the meta. If I see many combo decks popping up, I will be obligated to add the girls. For now I don't feel like their inclusion is that necessary. Most of my MUs are in the following order - mid-range, aggro, control and combo. In the first two cases I have to find a way to survive, in the third one I'm probably winning thx to the infinite combo.
As for the last case (and the decks you mentioned) - well, that's why I decided to add Rin, as she's my only out versus combo decks and Taunt Druid.
The gnomes have given me much easier wins against some tempo and Tess rogues. Also helped a lot in the taunt Druid matchup as Hillandder said. It may just end depending on what your local meta is.
Very well, tomorrow I will give them a try. Back in K&C I had more success with them thx to the Oracles. Once the Witchwood kicked in, I rarely found a good use for them. Against aggro they just destroyed low value minions, against combo I didn't find them to be reliable. I never actually deleted an important combo piece. What I do remember, is how I screwed warlocks most of the time, but that was due to the fact, that my opponents relied on many good cards. That's why I cut them as soon as the meta stabilized in the first weeks of WW. The Glinda combo felt more than enough. If I needed to counter a specific deck (cubelock, combo priest), then I just had to run the Geist.
But like I said, it won't hurt me to give the girls a try. I included way too many anti-aggro tools, so I just might as well improve the chances against the combo decks.
I was coming on thinking I'd discovered this new combo but alas, here it is. Has anyone had much luck playing it?
Please don't tell my girlfriend about my card collection...
If the OP can have a word, then I would say that the combo is still strong and still a nice win-condition against some decks. However, imho the glinda package isn't that beneficial in this meta since there aren't that many control decks to counter. Allow me to make a list of the decks I have faced so far since the balance patch arrived (I will mark the most seen ones):
- Warrior: Tаunt Warrior; Baku Tаunt.
- Paladin: Odd, Murloc, Even (only once). - aggro in either case.
- Hunter: Spellhunter, Mid-range, Baku.
- Druid: Taunt Druid, Spiteful Druid. [I also faced a weird Hand Druid, Malydruid and a Togwaggle deck once]
- Rogue: Tempo, Baku, Quest (only on the first day).
- Shaman: Shudderwock, Even.
- Mage: Tempo, Big Spell.
- Priest: Quest, Mindblast Priest.
- Warlock: Even (ever since it become popular, this is all I'm seeing from this class), Zoo, Cube, Control (only once).
So as you can see, most of my opponents are playing aggro and mid-range decks. The combo players are more than happy, when I give them enough time to assemble their pieces. So most of the cases, where I do win with the Glinda package are against Big Spell Mage, Taunt Warr and Quest Priest. Last season there were a lot more warlocks to counter, so the infinite combo felt great there. But not anymore or at least not for now.
Glinda is still very strong imho, but kinda slow. She's still a nice body against aggro decks and she gets a soft taunt, just because my opponents don't want to let me play multiple taunt minions on my turn.
If you really ask me, control warlock is still viable. Someone just has to find a better demon package and they will be back online. Glinda and the Banker can be replaced in order for this to happen. Trust me, I've got lots of wins due to the strong tools in warlock.
[Note] People are advising me to include the gnomeferatus, just so that I can have better chances against some decks. I don't know if I will have some free time later, as in an hour from now I'll be at work, but I still plan to do another change to the deck and post the results.
I wonder what demon package could be better than Glinda? That’s virtually the only win condition the deck has against other control decks. Gotta depend on what you’re mostly facing if you took the combo out. Not a lot of good demons to run honestly outside of both the lords.
Some clarifications:
- I didn't personally cut it. I'm still playing the infinite package, but I'm just advising the users on this forum to save themselves 2000 dust and to make their play-styles a bit smoother. I'm pretty sure, that the the control MUs are still winnable if you play carefully and Azari ASAP.
- I gotta agree that Glinda is really the most reliable win-condition against them, but please take a look at the list I made above and see the majority of decks I'm facing. Here's a second list:
Aggro (5) - Tempo Mage, Baku Rogue, Odd Paladin, Murloc Paladin, Baku Hunter
Mid-range (9) - Spell hunter, Tempo Rogue, Even Warlock, Even Shaman, Spiteful Druid, Miracle Rogue, Zoo, Mid-range hunter, Spiteful Priest
Control (6) - Taunt Druid, Quest Priest, Mind Blast Priest* (the win-condition is outlasting the burst), Big Spell Mage, Classic and Baku Warrior
Combo (3) - Shudderwock Shaman, Quest Rogue, Cube
{I wrote the decks in an descending popularity order and marked the rare MUs in italic}
It's true, that there a lot of control decks, which I also face, but Taunt Druid and Mind blast Priest don't care if I go infinite. The first one is happy to see how I give them time to form waves of bodies, the latter one just nukes me. So what's left are only three remaining decks (for now) - Quest Priest, Big Spell Mage and Taunt Warrior. If your opponents manage to destroy your Dark Pacts (I think adding one is ok), then you have to buff your spellstone to the max and kill rin with it. Mage doesn't have a reach, you can easily deal with their minions and heal after Alex. Priest is kinda annoying after they play the DK, but they don't pressure you that much and you can find some time to play the seals. Warrior would be the hardest MU since your face can attract the Rag hero power w/o the bankers, but the voidlords produce lots of tokens, which can absorb several hits as well.
So this is my personal opinion. I'll never doubt the power of the infinite package (also of the gnomeferatus), but I just don't think that they are necessary in the current environment.
Ok, so I would like to say the following.
Thank you, HouseofFrank, for being so active and helpful in this forum. Thanks to all, who have been participating here as well.
So anyway, after I ended today's test, I figured you all were right about the gnomeferatus. Today I faced lots of shudderwock decks and taunt druids and after losing to them badly, I feel convinced that the ladder is very unpredictable. And I mean it in a good way - thx to the variance you don't know for sure what you will be facing. So I decided to make some room for the gnomeferatus in case I have a bad MU.
Tomorrow I will try to come up with another list. I'm thinking of adding 2x dark pacts just to increase the chances of being able to trigger off Rin. I'm also considering crafting and running some voodoo dolls just like you advised me.
A third possibility would be to make the deck an Even one, as only few odd cards function great, but I don't want it to look like a plain copypasta one.