So, i finally got all the card necessary for the deck, but it feels quite disappointing. Ok, i need more time to master the deck but i noticed a few things:
1) So many times you draw all your demons (2 doomguard and 2 voidlord). It immediatly turn your Possessed Lackey into useless bad cards. If you don't draw Skull of the Man'ari you are stuck with an hand full of unplayable cards (not gonna risk to discard my Guldan to play Doomguard).
2) Spiritsinger Umbra is useful a match out of 10 maybe. Most of the time i play it as a turn four tempo play, knowing the will die miserably (4 health is nothing). The 9 mana combo: Skull of Manari into doomguard + umbra + carnivorous cube happens once every bluemoon
3) Prince Taldaram (yes, i crafted even him) is even less useful than Umbra
4) The Spellstone is hard to upgrade, and using it just as a deal 3 dmg, heal 3 for 4 mana isnt exactly great
5) More in general, every card comboes with another, but if you dont have the other one, it became a crappy card: the dark pacts without lackey/cube are bad, doomguard/voidlord without skull of manaari are bad, umbra without cube (and sometimes even with him) is bad, spellstone without kobold librarian is bad.
Vs aggro so many times i found myself looking desperately for a defile without never drawing one (hellfire is just not enough, specially now that aggropally is played a lot and they are full of divine shield). I really don't know what im doing wrong or if mine is just a terrible streak of bad luck, the deck list is the same played by everyone on this forum.
The possessed Lackey is still a thread on the board and people consider twice if they attack him or use aoe while he's on board. It also feels great if an enemy uses a silence on him ;)
The prince can also copy enemy cards; you could for example copy that new paladin legendary that gets copies of all spells including the double-deathrattle taunt or any nice taunt, lifesteal or deathrattle card in general.
To those asking: im not a pro, but im not the last of the noobs. I made it to legend 3 times (top 6 once in wild), i always hit AT LEAST rank 5. Now, i know the deck isnt shit. And i did watch plenty of videos (Kolento, Savjz, Dog,StrifeCro and more) using the deck. But in videos seems their decks always runs smoothly, and mine doesnt, im bricking badly almost all the time. I can't be the only one bricking, am i ?
OP, I also have the same opinion about that deck and I don't even play it, instead I faced a lot of players running it and I won many games against them with a normal controllock deck and that's why I have the following opinion, Inb4 I don't judge you for being critical about it, I think people should open their eyes for some inclusions and start thinking a bit more rationally.
Like I said a bunch of times in threads like this - the combo requires a lot of card slots in order for it to work (before, a bit more than a third of the deck, now people are becoming really greedy out of some reason and include even more expensive cards). Thing is - this deck can highroll, but because it requires a lot of set up, drawing the bad cards has a big chance to happen. Yes, warlock has the best HP in that regard, but I wouldn't risk it, when there are a lot of fast decks being played.
Imho you don't have to blindly net deck the typical versions you see in forums like these. Where is your Master Oakheart, people?! Staple, hah. Anyway I think it will be best, if you include a bit more early-game taunts, so that you will stall, until you get your combo.
The win-condition is: - against aggro - only stabilization - against control - only and I mean only doomguards (I have met people cubing the voidlords... no f*cking shit the DK will resurrect worthless crap); you have enough time to find the combo pieces You don't need anything else; the other inclusions are imho an overkill.
[edit] Taldaram - win-more. Good versus control, unneeded versus aggro. If you managed get a voidlord, then gg. You are already winning. "Good utilization card" - I would prefer to have a one less voidlord or a cube with 2 voidlords, but to ensure myself, that I will always have ways to protect myself when I'm in danger, when I need a little bit of a stall and when every card matters. Because is it worth it to have a lot of passive turns, to desperately draw a lot of cards and to make yourself even more vulnerable to the ever growing opponent's board?
I got to legend first time ever (started playing at Un Goro) the past season with Cubelock. I tried dufferent versions and I cut the Doomguards all together! Against Aggro I win +80% of the time knowing I will always hit Voidlord with Posessed Lackey. And after proccing the Lord I usually have one of the pieces to copy the original one -> win at that point.
I do struggle against Raza priest, but the Mountain Giants have turned the tide a couple of times.
As a gamer I want to maximize my chances, and I cannot frigging stand tossing the coin on which deamon I'm proccing with the Lackey so I went with the Void-factory theme and achieved my goal so I'm happy :)
And pushing full boards TWICE during the game with Guldan and Nzoth is not particularly tiny amount of dmg on the long run. Ditch the Doomguards ;)
If you ask me, what you have done is the right build order.
I will quickly say, that imho in order for that deck to be as consistent as possible, since around 1/3 of the deck goes for making this combo possible, I really think, that it's a smart move to cut EITHER of the demons. In your case you build taunts forever, if I understand you correctly, your deck kinda resembles a normal control warlock, with the addition of the cubes. (quick question - did you also ditch the weapon and umbra?). So it is a nice "hybrid" one, gathers the best sides of both decks.
Normally I don't deny, that the cube is really a powerful card and it is a smart inclusion in general, increasing the good quality minions in the deck. However I just didn't like how clumsy people and, not to mention, streamers make their decks - expensive cards like the Giants, an N'Zoth package and what not in a freaking combo deck, i.e. they dilute the deck even more:
As a gamer I want to maximize my chances, and I cannot frigging stand tossing the coin
And this is why I strongly agree with you. I would say - not only with the Lackey, but also regarding the card draw. The decks should run a bit smoother.
So yeah - only running one of the demons, in order to increase the chances of finding the right one, and using cubes for extra (good and not an unnecessary) value is the way it should be done. (But like I said - either demon - if the meta somehow becomes slow enough, then imho the doomguard package should be more rewarding.)
You are probably just not mulliganing properly. You should be throwing away everything except librarian, coil, hellfire and defile against aggro, unless you already have one of the aforementioned cards, at which point you can also keep amethyst.
But yeah, taldaram really isn't needed in the deck, and Umbra is only situationally useful. If you run a list with double mountain giants, you won't need either.
dont forget taldaram can be used to just get a 3/3 patches or whatever in matches where it isn't necessarily there for value. I removed Umbra but I find taldaram super flexible. Also against raza priest playing doom guards from hand can be the correct play, depending on what you drew and what they played, of course.
It's a difficult deck to play. Even seemingly tiny misplays snowball hard into a game breaking mistake.
It's also a combo deck, and as someone who loves themselves a crazy combo I can tell you sometimes you just get really bad cold streaks. Couple of games with those key pieces sitting on the bottom of your deck and it'll feel like the combo just isn't working.
Last thing to consider: Aggro paladin is a bad matchup and aggro ramps up hard at the beginning of the season as people push for a quick climb.
So, i finally got all the card necessary for the deck, but it feels quite disappointing. Ok, i need more time to master the deck but i noticed a few things:
1) So many times you draw all your demons (2 doomguard and 2 voidlord). It immediatly turn your Possessed Lackey into useless bad cards. If you don't draw Skull of the Man'ari you are stuck with an hand full of unplayable cards (not gonna risk to discard my Guldan to play Doomguard).
2) Spiritsinger Umbra is useful a match out of 10 maybe. Most of the time i play it as a turn four tempo play, knowing the will die miserably (4 health is nothing). The 9 mana combo: Skull of Manari into doomguard + umbra + carnivorous cube happens once every bluemoon
3) Prince Taldaram (yes, i crafted even him) is even less useful than Umbra
4) The Spellstone is hard to upgrade, and using it just as a deal 3 dmg, heal 3 for 4 mana isnt exactly great
5) More in general, every card comboes with another, but if you dont have the other one, it became a crappy card: the dark pacts without lackey/cube are bad, doomguard/voidlord without skull of manaari are bad, umbra without cube (and sometimes even with him) is bad, spellstone without kobold librarian is bad.
Vs aggro so many times i found myself looking desperately for a defile without never drawing one (hellfire is just not enough, specially now that aggropally is played a lot and they are full of divine shield). I really don't know what im doing wrong or if mine is just a terrible streak of bad luck, the deck list is the same played by everyone on this forum.
1) You're saying you draw 4 cards before you can play one of 3 cards? Even a legend player should realize the stats on that
2) Umbra is an ultra greed card and isn't run in every list. If you don't want to use it take it out. It has way more uses than the OTK.
3) Just no. I can't even begin to say how wrong this is. Taldarram is a 3 mana faceless, which is insane in a lot of matchups. You realize you can copy the opponents minions right? You realize you can copy something strong from a lot of different deck types
4) It is hard to upgrade if you blindly play librarian
5) Woah a combo deck requires combo cards who knew.
Sounds like this deck isn't meant for you, your understanding of it is quite limited. Just play control warlock.
I have kept the Skull for emergencies where I happen to draw both of my big boys early and while I have thought cutting it many times, I've still found it to be useful from time to time.
Some notable exclusions also are the Mistresses and only running one Spellstone. I find the spellstone a bit too clunky when running only 4 cards dealing dmg to my own face. The card screams for Homunculus, but obviously that's not going to happen.
Umbra and Taldaram in default Faceless-Giants-Cube list are dead cards in most of games. I better use Nzoth for control mu's and Tar Creeper to improve aggro mu's.
The deck seems to be one of the strongest and most selfplaying decks ever. All the tools are there in a way that leave very litte for own creativity. Cards that recruit demons without penalty, card that double them, card that activate deathrattle and kill the card that double the demon while healing your hero, card that summon all back, hero power that draw card, another hero that give you all demons back and heal you up while making damage, card that clean the table, card that kill opponents deck etc etc.
It's feels like they have given Warlock a selfplaying piano this time where almost nothing can go wrong.
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So, i finally got all the card necessary for the deck, but it feels quite disappointing. Ok, i need more time to master the deck but i noticed a few things:
1) So many times you draw all your demons (2 doomguard and 2 voidlord). It immediatly turn your Possessed Lackey into useless bad cards. If you don't draw Skull of the Man'ari you are stuck with an hand full of unplayable cards (not gonna risk to discard my Guldan to play Doomguard).
2) Spiritsinger Umbra is useful a match out of 10 maybe. Most of the time i play it as a turn four tempo play, knowing the will die miserably (4 health is nothing). The 9 mana combo: Skull of Manari into doomguard + umbra + carnivorous cube happens once every bluemoon
3) Prince Taldaram (yes, i crafted even him) is even less useful than Umbra
4) The Spellstone is hard to upgrade, and using it just as a deal 3 dmg, heal 3 for 4 mana isnt exactly great
5) More in general, every card comboes with another, but if you dont have the other one, it became a crappy card:
the dark pacts without lackey/cube are bad, doomguard/voidlord without skull of manaari are bad, umbra without cube (and sometimes even with him) is bad, spellstone without kobold librarian is bad.
Vs aggro so many times i found myself looking desperately for a defile without never drawing one (hellfire is just not enough, specially now that aggropally is played a lot and they are full of divine shield).
I really don't know what im doing wrong or if mine is just a terrible streak of bad luck, the deck list is the same played by everyone on this forum.
The possessed Lackey is still a thread on the board and people consider twice if they attack him or use aoe while he's on board. It also feels great if an enemy uses a silence on him ;)
The prince can also copy enemy cards; you could for example copy that new paladin legendary that gets copies of all spells including the double-deathrattle taunt or any nice taunt, lifesteal or deathrattle card in general.
Sounds you dont do it well with one of the best decks at the moment, maybe you watch some Streams to see how great this deck really is.
To those asking: im not a pro, but im not the last of the noobs. I made it to legend 3 times (top 6 once in wild), i always hit AT LEAST rank 5.
Now, i know the deck isnt shit. And i did watch plenty of videos (Kolento, Savjz, Dog,StrifeCro and more) using the deck.
But in videos seems their decks always runs smoothly, and mine doesnt, im bricking badly almost all the time. I can't be the only one bricking, am i ?
OP, I also have the same opinion about that deck and I don't even play it, instead I faced a lot of players running it and I won many games against them with a normal controllock deck and that's why I have the following opinion, Inb4 I don't judge you for being critical about it, I think people should open their eyes for some inclusions and start thinking a bit more rationally.
Like I said a bunch of times in threads like this - the combo requires a lot of card slots in order for it to work (before, a bit more than a third of the deck, now people are becoming really greedy out of some reason and include even more expensive cards). Thing is - this deck can highroll, but because it requires a lot of set up, drawing the bad cards has a big chance to happen. Yes, warlock has the best HP in that regard, but I wouldn't risk it, when there are a lot of fast decks being played.
Imho you don't have to blindly net deck the typical versions you see in forums like these. Where is your Master Oakheart, people?! Staple, hah. Anyway I think it will be best, if you include a bit more early-game taunts, so that you will stall, until you get your combo.
The win-condition is:
- against aggro - only stabilization
- against control - only and I mean only doomguards (I have met people cubing the voidlords... no f*cking shit the DK will resurrect worthless crap); you have enough time to find the combo pieces
You don't need anything else; the other inclusions are imho an overkill.
[edit]
Taldaram - win-more. Good versus control, unneeded versus aggro. If you managed get a voidlord, then gg. You are already winning. "Good utilization card" - I would prefer to have a one less voidlord or a cube with 2 voidlords, but to ensure myself, that I will always have ways to protect myself when I'm in danger, when I need a little bit of a stall and when every card matters. Because is it worth it to have a lot of passive turns, to desperately draw a lot of cards and to make yourself even more vulnerable to the ever growing opponent's board?
It's not an easy deck to use, but if you are struggling against aggro, my guess is that you are burning your board clears too soon.
(It really is very bad luck if you just aren't drawing anything that can keep you alive long enough to stabilize.)
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I got to legend first time ever (started playing at Un Goro) the past season with Cubelock. I tried dufferent versions and I cut the Doomguards all together! Against Aggro I win +80% of the time knowing I will always hit Voidlord with Posessed Lackey. And after proccing the Lord I usually have one of the pieces to copy the original one -> win at that point.
I do struggle against Raza priest, but the Mountain Giants have turned the tide a couple of times.
As a gamer I want to maximize my chances, and I cannot frigging stand tossing the coin on which deamon I'm proccing with the Lackey so I went with the Void-factory theme and achieved my goal so I'm happy :)
And pushing full boards TWICE during the game with Guldan and Nzoth is not particularly tiny amount of dmg on the long run. Ditch the Doomguards ;)
If you ask me, what you have done is the right build order.
I will quickly say, that imho in order for that deck to be as consistent as possible, since around 1/3 of the deck goes for making this combo possible, I really think, that it's a smart move to cut EITHER of the demons. In your case you build taunts forever, if I understand you correctly, your deck kinda resembles a normal control warlock, with the addition of the cubes. (quick question - did you also ditch the weapon and umbra?). So it is a nice "hybrid" one, gathers the best sides of both decks.
Normally I don't deny, that the cube is really a powerful card and it is a smart inclusion in general, increasing the good quality minions in the deck. However I just didn't like how clumsy people and, not to mention, streamers make their decks - expensive cards like the Giants, an N'Zoth package and what not in a freaking combo deck, i.e. they dilute the deck even more:
And this is why I strongly agree with you. I would say - not only with the Lackey, but also regarding the card draw. The decks should run a bit smoother.
So yeah - only running one of the demons, in order to increase the chances of finding the right one, and using cubes for extra (good and not an unnecessary) value is the way it should be done. (But like I said - either demon - if the meta somehow becomes slow enough, then imho the doomguard package should be more rewarding.)
You are probably just not mulliganing properly. You should be throwing away everything except librarian, coil, hellfire and defile against aggro, unless you already have one of the aforementioned cards, at which point you can also keep amethyst.
But yeah, taldaram really isn't needed in the deck, and Umbra is only situationally useful. If you run a list with double mountain giants, you won't need either.
dont forget taldaram can be used to just get a 3/3 patches or whatever in matches where it isn't necessarily there for value. I removed Umbra but I find taldaram super flexible. Also against raza priest playing doom guards from hand can be the correct play, depending on what you drew and what they played, of course.
It's a difficult deck to play. Even seemingly tiny misplays snowball hard into a game breaking mistake.
It's also a combo deck, and as someone who loves themselves a crazy combo I can tell you sometimes you just get really bad cold streaks. Couple of games with those key pieces sitting on the bottom of your deck and it'll feel like the combo just isn't working.
Last thing to consider: Aggro paladin is a bad matchup and aggro ramps up hard at the beginning of the season as people push for a quick climb.
Good to hear my thinking sounds solid enough!
I have kept the Skull for emergencies where I happen to draw both of my big boys early and while I have thought cutting it many times, I've still found it to be useful from time to time.
Some notable exclusions also are the Mistresses and only running one Spellstone. I find the spellstone a bit too clunky when running only 4 cards dealing dmg to my own face. The card screams for Homunculus, but obviously that's not going to happen.
I'll link my build here:
Umbra and Taldaram in default Faceless-Giants-Cube list are dead cards in most of games. I better use Nzoth for control mu's and Tar Creeper to improve aggro mu's.
The deck seems to be one of the strongest and most selfplaying decks ever. All the tools are there in a way that leave very litte for own creativity. Cards that recruit demons without penalty, card that double them, card that activate deathrattle and kill the card that double the demon while healing your hero, card that summon all back, hero power that draw card, another hero that give you all demons back and heal you up while making damage, card that clean the table, card that kill opponents deck etc etc.
It's feels like they have given Warlock a selfplaying piano this time where almost nothing can go wrong.