I was wondering if Rin and Nzoth were staple cards now: I opened both Voidlords and the Warlock Weapon and I was thinking about crafting the DK, but with all these Cube and Rin decks, Im not so sure anymore. Any insights?
Rin is slow and easierly counter if it was ever more than a meme. Warlock dk is a staple even in zoo warlock as it’s power level so high.
If you are on a dust budget like most of us are craft the dk. N zoth will be leaving standard next year If I’m not mistaken making it less desirable though still a better craft than rin
Have you played it ?! I presume not. It is already known that Rin is not a meme card as initially people predicted. It is slow but an excellent counter to control decks and especially in mirror match-ups.
DK is a pretty self explanatory one, it also goes in aggro just in case you wanna try.
Rin if unanswered is a win condition by itself against control decks.
N'zoth is kind of a back-up plan (albeit an extremely powerful one), but also consider it will rotate as soon as next expansion comes out, BUT he is played in wild so he should still be a good craft (I have crafted a golden one and I don't regret it)
Rin is slow and easierly counter if it was ever more than a meme. Warlock dk is a staple even in zoo warlock as it’s power level so high.
If you are on a dust budget like most of us are craft the dk. N zoth will be leaving standard next year If I’m not mistaken making it less desirable though still a better craft than rin
Have you played it ?! I presume not. It is already known that Rin is not a meme card as initially people predicted. It is slow but an excellent counter to control decks and especially in mirror match-ups.
Yes I play big spell priest currently and tech in 2 silences to counter void lord, rin is good I agree but the problem is all you need to do is tech a silence or mind control/polymorph and he is countered. The real strength of control lock is not rin. It’s the huge healing from spellstone/deathpact along with void lord power level with dk and some greedy n’zoth/cube plays. Rin is just a bonus.
He is asking whether to craft Rin over the dk and surely you would agree that the dk is better overall.
This so much! I've never lost to Rin and I believe Control Lock can be played very effectively without Rin. However lacking DK Gul'Dan will be felt.
Neither is a staple. Rin is a tech card against slow matchups. When the win condition of the opponent's deck is attrition, Rin, the First Disciple will win you the game since attrition decks can't pressure you. When the win condition is combo, it is a race whether you can burn their deck before they get all combo pieces. N'Zoth, the Corruptor is more an attrition win condition against midrange. Combined with skulking geist also against Jade Druid. I never managed to win with Druid against a Skulking Geist warlock when he played voidlord. Too much stall and boardclear. But I won several matches against Rin (without they having skulking geist) even when they burnt my deck. Edit: I realized that doesn't say anything about rin, but more about skulking geist in warlock, when you want to win against Jade Druid). What I wanted to say: When you can play rin against a midrange deck (or faster) , you have won most likely anyway (win more). Only in very slow decks Rin will help you winning. Bloodreaver Gul'dan is a much much better card to craft (even usable in zoo decks).
I want to try out cube lock. Things is, I'm missing 2 core cards: Umbra and the weapon, which one should I craft? Can I play cube lock without Umbra or the weapon?
I'd say N'Zoth is. It's really not that difficult for your opponent to clean board after you play Gul'dan. So you have N'Zoth as a Plan B.
Rin is up to preference...if you're playing Razakus or Quest Mage and they're having bad luck with draws, you can try and force out the seals before they get their combo. But I haven't really had much luck with it. She's not necessary.
Rin is slow and easierly counter if it was ever more than a meme. Warlock dk is a staple even in zoo warlock as it’s power level so high.
If you are on a dust budget like most of us are craft the dk. N zoth will be leaving standard next year If I’m not mistaken making it less desirable though still a better craft than rin
Have you played it ?! I presume not. It is already known that Rin is not a meme card as initially people predicted. It is slow but an excellent counter to control decks and especially in mirror match-ups.
Yes I play big spell priest currently and tech in 2 silences to counter void lord, rin is good I agree but the problem is all you need to do is tech a silence or mind control/polymorph and he is countered. The real strength of control lock is not rin. It’s the huge healing from spellstone/deathpact along with void lord power level with dk and some greedy n’zoth/cube plays. Rin is just a bonus.
He is asking whether to craft Rin over the dk and surely you would agree that the dk is better overall.
Yes, 100% the DK is a priority over Rin, totally agree.
I want to try out cube lock. Things is, I'm missing 2 core cards: Umbra and the weapon, which one should I craft? Can I play cube lock without Umbra or the weapon?
You need the weapon but not Umbra. Crucial to get your Doomguards out without discarding.
I haven't played the new controllock but I want to eventually craft it so I've been watching it's evolution closely. Some lists are already tossing out Rin. N'zoth is optional but really useful for matchups that go into fatigue, but N'zoth works better in the Voidlord non-cube version. Bloodreaver Gul'Dan is required, especially if you don't have N'zoth. He's your key to refill the board lategame. Master Oakheart imo is more useful than Rin but also very optional.
Umbra is useful for giving the OTK cubelock more reliability (like Rin can be weak to silence and to avoid classes/decks that run silence Umbra gives you an instant cube value without using Dark Pact) but the Voidlord noncube version is slightly more reliable from what I've seen and keep in mind that Doomguard even with Umbra+Dark Pact will not OTK your opponent unless you've done some other damage, which in most of my vs cubelock games, they have not been able to do any burst to me until the cube combo comes down. Hope this helps you figure out what you want to craft and what to not.
I'd say neither of those are really staples. Gul'dan is. N'Zoth is used in some versions and Rin sees some play as a win condition against control, but Gul'dan is used in every single warlock deck.
Rin is honestly not good, I haver her and dropped her from all my warlock lists already, she's just too slow, there are a bunch of control match-ups you can lose only by trying to pull the Azari meme, and yes she may help you in 1/10 matches but in the other 9 I guarantee you'll have something better to play every turn instead of the seals and they'll be dead cards in your hand. As for the question itself my advice is craft Gul'dan asap, that card is absolutely insane, it sees play even on a fast deck like zoo and it will see play for the next 2 years guaranteed, as a stand alone card is for sure on the top 3 best hearthstone cards ever printed and then from there take a decision regarding both your playstyle and dust situation, there are 2 good controlock decks currently, cubelock and then just standart Control, the first obviously uses the cube and the weapon as well so it's naturally more expensive (Umbra is bad for the deck and while it gives you a high burst potential it just feels weaker than a deck without it) but I feel slightly more solid (not a huge amount tho) and then the standart control which I think needs N'zoth to be on the same level as cubelock, so it all really depends on what type of deck you like playing and your dust situation, for both decks you absolutely need Gul'dan, and from there you need either Cubes and weapon or N'zoth,both decks are solid choices and both decks win the same match-ups and lose against pretty much the same stuff.
Great discussion tho. I have lost only against Rin's Controllock as a Miracle Druid (my main laddering deck atm) but otherwise Ive won every other matchup whenever they dont have the Geist teched in. I guess I will craft Guldan asap then. Thanks!
Rin is slow and easierly counter if it was ever more than a meme. Warlock dk is a staple even in zoo warlock as it’s power level so high.
If you are on a dust budget like most of us are craft the dk. N zoth will be leaving standard next year If I’m not mistaken making it less desirable though still a better craft than rin
Have you played it ?! I presume not. It is already known that Rin is not a meme card as initially people predicted. It is slow but an excellent counter to control decks and especially in mirror match-ups.
Yes I play big spell priest currently and tech in 2 silences to counter void lord, rin is good I agree but the problem is all you need to do is tech a silence or mind control/polymorph and he is countered. The real strength of control lock is not rin. It’s the huge healing from spellstone/deathpact along with void lord power level with dk and some greedy n’zoth/cube plays. Rin is just a bonus.
He is asking whether to craft Rin over the dk and surely you would agree that the dk is better overall.
If only there was a warlock card that let you kill your own minion and heal yourself...hmmm. Seriously if a warlock played Rin against a priest without setting it off himself he deserves to lose because that's just bad logic there.
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Hi,
I was wondering if Rin and Nzoth were staple cards now: I opened both Voidlords and the Warlock Weapon and I was thinking about crafting the DK, but with all these Cube and Rin decks, Im not so sure anymore. Any insights?
Cheers
Nice
No I don't think so, the deathknight is definitely a better craft than those 2 anyway
The death knight goes first. Its the best warlock card ever printed.
That's Incredible!
IMO the order is DK first, then Rin, then N'zoth.
DK is a pretty self explanatory one, it also goes in aggro just in case you wanna try.
Rin if unanswered is a win condition by itself against control decks.
N'zoth is kind of a back-up plan (albeit an extremely powerful one), but also consider it will rotate as soon as next expansion comes out, BUT he is played in wild so he should still be a good craft (I have crafted a golden one and I don't regret it)
I've no clue what I'm doing...
Neither is a staple. Rin is a tech card against slow matchups. When the win condition of the opponent's deck is attrition, Rin, the First Disciple will win you the game since attrition decks can't pressure you. When the win condition is combo, it is a race whether you can burn their deck before they get all combo pieces. N'Zoth, the Corruptor is more an attrition win condition against midrange. Combined with skulking geist also against Jade Druid. I never managed to win with Druid against a Skulking Geist warlock when he played voidlord. Too much stall and boardclear. But I won several matches against Rin (without they having skulking geist) even when they burnt my deck. Edit: I realized that doesn't say anything about rin, but more about skulking geist in warlock, when you want to win against Jade Druid). What I wanted to say: When you can play rin against a midrange deck (or faster) , you have won most likely anyway (win more). Only in very slow decks Rin will help you winning. Bloodreaver Gul'dan is a much much better card to craft (even usable in zoo decks).
Staples are Voidlord , DK Guldan, Twisting Nether , Defile and Kobold Librarian (maybe some other cards that I cannot remember without looking at a decklist). The weapon is also a very good tool for cubelock (pull Doomguard , Spiritsinger Umbra -> Carnivorous Cube -> Dark Pact the cube. 20 instant damage and a very strong board).
I want to try out cube lock. Things is, I'm missing 2 core cards: Umbra and the weapon, which one should I craft? Can I play cube lock without Umbra or the weapon?
Weapon, for sure. The deck is still playable without umbra.
I'd say N'Zoth is. It's really not that difficult for your opponent to clean board after you play Gul'dan. So you have N'Zoth as a Plan B.
Rin is up to preference...if you're playing Razakus or Quest Mage and they're having bad luck with draws, you can try and force out the seals before they get their combo. But I haven't really had much luck with it. She's not necessary.
Guldan dk is the priority, no question about it.
I haven't played the new controllock but I want to eventually craft it so I've been watching it's evolution closely. Some lists are already tossing out Rin. N'zoth is optional but really useful for matchups that go into fatigue, but N'zoth works better in the Voidlord non-cube version. Bloodreaver Gul'Dan is required, especially if you don't have N'zoth. He's your key to refill the board lategame. Master Oakheart imo is more useful than Rin but also very optional.
Umbra is useful for giving the OTK cubelock more reliability (like Rin can be weak to silence and to avoid classes/decks that run silence Umbra gives you an instant cube value without using Dark Pact) but the Voidlord noncube version is slightly more reliable from what I've seen and keep in mind that Doomguard even with Umbra+Dark Pact will not OTK your opponent unless you've done some other damage, which in most of my vs cubelock games, they have not been able to do any burst to me until the cube combo comes down. Hope this helps you figure out what you want to craft and what to not.
I'd say neither of those are really staples. Gul'dan is. N'Zoth is used in some versions and Rin sees some play as a win condition against control, but Gul'dan is used in every single warlock deck.
Rin is honestly not good, I haver her and dropped her from all my warlock lists already, she's just too slow, there are a bunch of control match-ups you can lose only by trying to pull the Azari meme, and yes she may help you in 1/10 matches but in the other 9 I guarantee you'll have something better to play every turn instead of the seals and they'll be dead cards in your hand. As for the question itself my advice is craft Gul'dan asap, that card is absolutely insane, it sees play even on a fast deck like zoo and it will see play for the next 2 years guaranteed, as a stand alone card is for sure on the top 3 best hearthstone cards ever printed and then from there take a decision regarding both your playstyle and dust situation, there are 2 good controlock decks currently, cubelock and then just standart Control, the first obviously uses the cube and the weapon as well so it's naturally more expensive (Umbra is bad for the deck and while it gives you a high burst potential it just feels weaker than a deck without it) but I feel slightly more solid (not a huge amount tho) and then the standart control which I think needs N'zoth to be on the same level as cubelock, so it all really depends on what type of deck you like playing and your dust situation, for both decks you absolutely need Gul'dan, and from there you need either Cubes and weapon or N'zoth,both decks are solid choices and both decks win the same match-ups and lose against pretty much the same stuff.
Great discussion tho. I have lost only against Rin's Controllock as a Miracle Druid (my main laddering deck atm) but otherwise Ive won every other matchup whenever they dont have the Geist teched in. I guess I will craft Guldan asap then. Thanks!
Nice
Seriously if a warlock played Rin against a priest without setting it off himself he deserves to lose because that's just bad logic there.