Dirty Rat is a great card but, as with all tech cards, its viability is completely down to the meta. At the moment it's pretty bad because there are so many big minion decks.
Seeing as how he will be rotating out in a few months it seems his time is nigh.
i like Skulking Geist in control warlock, still gets value against cubelock, some priests, rogue and jades off course.
I also like that card a lot. I used to run it in every single control deck back in KOFT, because I could stop jade dudu's win-condition. Also in wild - not that I played a lot of it, but it countered the Leeroy + Power overwhelming combo, it countered freeze mage a bit, some innerfire priests. Basically people's win-conditions.
I also like him atm, but dunno how the meta will shape into. Against priest - I'm dead anyway to the Velen combo, against (tempo) rogue this is kinda slow, against cubelock - dunno. Tried it, it hindered their combo, but I can't evaluate the usefulness of this tech in that scenario. Maybe I have to play more of the geist against cubelock to see if it really is worth the inclusion.
i like Skulking Geist in control warlock, still gets value against cubelock, some priests, rogue and jades off course.
I also like that card a lot. I used to run it in every single control deck back in KOFT, because I could stop jade dudu's win-condition. Also in wild - not that I played a lot of it, but it countered the Leeroy + Power overwhelming combo, it countered freeze mage a bit, some innerfire priests. Basically people's win-conditions.
I also like him atm, but dunno how the meta will shape into. Against priest - I'm dead anyway to the Velen combo, against (tempo) rogue this is kinda slow, against cubelock - dunno. Tried it, it hindered their combo, but I can't evaluate the usefulness of this tech in that scenario. Maybe I have to play more of the geist against cubelock to see if it really is worth the inclusion.
Most of the time i win the cube matchup on fatigue, so geist hitting mortal coil and dark pact slows them down a bit and they can't summon enough doomguards to threat me (i run 2 twisting nether and a spellbreaker tho).
Yes, yes. I'm not doubting your success. It's the opposite actually - I have also won most of my games against the cubelock because I exhausted them and I ruined their win-condition with the Doomguards, and thus I believe you. There were also some cases, where I faced jade dudu and because I didn't have geist anymore, I lost.
It's just that I was thinking whether or not I should run yet another 6-drop. If the meta is really so, that I would profit from this inclusion, then I will insta run it; I just don't follow what actually the most popular (the most played decks*) are atm. I don't want to cut Rin, because although she can be really slow as expected, she was still useful to me in some situations.
*Note - and by that I don't mean the high tier ones, because I have seen the tier list and I have played against those decks on the ladder, but like I said, I don't know which of them are being played the most and in what ranks.
I would like to apologize, if I have sounded I bit too harsh to you and denying everything you've said.
You are right, Spellbreaker is a useful tech at the end of the day and I spat on him for no real reason. Back then, when I replied to you the last time, I was thinking about the techs, which are going to be useful against the bad MUs. And regarding Spellbreaker I didn't thought it was a weak card, but just not the card I thought I needed, because back then the most common decks were those in the OP and I wanted to ask people's opinions about what tech card would I have to consider when dealing with the aforementioned ones.
Speaking of Tech, my Highlander Priest has swapped in Shadow Madness for late game vs Rin, the First Disciple and Voidlord. I can ram them into your other threats, or just Shadow Word: Pain them myself. I've destroyed numerous control warlocks with this strat.
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The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
I actually replaced both my Spellbreakers, because they are really only good in a single matchup (Cubelock), and otherwise are too consistent (can hit a Twilight Drake or Palabuffed minion, but that's really it). Skulking Geist is still THE tech card, just because it hits so many decks. It completely kills Jade and Evolve Shaman and can kill 3-4 cards in Raza-Priest, 2-4 vs Cubelock and 2-4 in Rogue. I often go to fatigue so thinning their deck (along with Gnomeferatu, which is the only real counter to Raza-priest - if you are lucky) is an added bonus and often game winning. I currently test Ooze instead of spellbreaker. It's obviously almost match winning against Cubelock, does a decent job against mage, rogue and whatnot.
Currently at rank 1-2, since I don't feel like grinding and only do dailies.
Tanklock
Control Warlock Deck
by Zukuu - Dec 30, 2017
THANK YOU! I was hoping you would show up and express your opinion. After all, you are one of the few people, who don't blindly follow the streamers or net-deck some decks; you are one of those, who has an objective opinion about warlock's strengths and weaknesses.
:D
Anyway, sorry for the boot-licking, now back to the serious part. I also have the same opinion about Spellbreaker. Since the start I thought he was mainly good against warlock (in some situations also including zoo) and thus not really worth the inclusion. And definitely not the right tech card against the bad MUs. I will follow your and people's advice and I will put back Skulking Geist. I've always liked this card, I was just confused by the new meta and how it will look like. But I think, that all of you are right, he is still a needed tech. I would only disagree about the shaman part - how can you counter something, which doesn't exist anymore? I don't remember the last time I faced an evolve token deck.
Gnomeferatu - since the start I also liked this card a lot aswell. Having the ability to destroy a card, which normally, since you are playing in a serious environment, ends up being a high-quality one, is just a pretty strong effect imo. This means either a big AoE, maybe a big threat etc. But regarding combo decks - dunno, relying on an RNG effect to destroy a specific piece card in a 24~20 card deck... I also considered running her, not going to lie, but if I were to use her, I would wait a bit more just to see how prevalent highlander priest actually is.
If you don't mind, I would like to comment on your deck here:
Gluttonous Ooze - I understand the need for destroying weapons, but why this though and not the normal Ooze instead. I'm not going to regard the mana part, this is a bit irrelevant to me, the Gluttonous ooze has a point more health than the other one, but only against paladin and maybe hunter you are getting the value out of it (some 1 armor from rogues too; not going to deny that you are slowing them down a bit too).
Despicable Dreadlord and with the Possessed Lackey package. This is more of a question: I don't deny, that the Dreadlord is a strong card and it makes clearing the board and establishing board control easier, but how does it feel, when your Lackey pulls him out instead of a Voidlord. Let's say you are facing a flooded board or you are low on health and want to desperately taunt up. The lackey however pulls the wrong minion. I personally changed my mind about that gnome, I think the N'Zoth package is still kinda risky, but more rewarding than the previous one (the one, which I still run in my deck), but wasn't the price of it having to cut the other useful demons, just so you can always control the outcome of the recruit mechanic? Like I said, this isn't a critique, just a question, since you are playing this deck and you know better. Inb4 I like your deck, my favourite play-style also revolves around the attrition/fatigue strategy.
Thx for your comment. If you remember, I replied to a similar one of yours in my deck :P
Mmm, nah, taking into consideration how many anti-aggro tools in run in my deck, I think that considering the giants is worth it. I used to play them back in KOFT (right after the nerfs came), hmmm, they helped me gain some pressure, but the priest player just had the combo. If I were to win against them, then I have to 1) play another deck (with a tempo strategy, aka zoo), 2) to run a proactive win-condition.
If you ask me, the highlander deck is the actual hard counter, not the big priest one. This is just a deck, which can high-roll, nothing more. Do you know how often I was close at winning against them? My attrition deck worked really well, with the DK heropower I just slowly killed their stuff, until they didn't have other things to play. That was before the new expansion, right now I'm one Twisting Nether away from achieving this same scenario. Now that they have that poly-resurrection spell, I can't deal with the new creatures at once; like I said I just need another twisting and nothing more.
Against secret mage:
Yeah, I have seen people commenting how they do well against it because Possessed Lackey, Voidlord and friends. Right now I'm lacking 2 of the 3/9s, I will wait a bit more to hopefully pack them, then I will see how I will form my deck. Inb4 I want to disagree, why would I rely in Rin to help me against that MU. She's extremely slow. I am better off having a anti-weapon tech instead, so that I can have time to recover from the burn with the DK.
THANK YOU! I was hoping you would show up and express your opinion. After all, you are one of the few people, who don't blindly follow the streamers or net-deck some decks; you are one of those, who has an objective opinion about warlock's strengths and weaknesses.
:D
Anyway, sorry for the boot-licking, now back to the serious part. I also have the same opinion about Spellbreaker. Since the start I thought he was mainly good against warlock (in some situations also including zoo) and thus not really worth the inclusion. And definitely not the right tech card against the bad MUs. I will follow your and people's advice and I will put back Skulking Geist. I've always liked this card, I was just confused by the new meta and how it will look like. But I think, that all of you are right, he is still a needed tech. I would only disagree about the shaman part - how can you counter something, which doesn't exist anymore? I don't remember the last time I faced an evolve token deck.
Gnomeferatu - since the start I also liked this card a lot aswell. Having the ability to destroy a card, which normally, since you are playing in a serious environment, ends up being a high-quality one, is just a pretty strong effect imo. This means either a big AoE, maybe a big threat etc. But regarding combo decks - dunno, relying on an RNG effect to destroy a specific piece card in a 24~20 card deck... I also considered running her, not going to lie, but if I were to use her, I would wait a bit more just to see how prevalent highlander priest actually is.
If you don't mind, I would like to comment on your deck here:
Gluttonous Ooze - I understand the need for destroying weapons, but why this though and not the normal Ooze instead. I'm not going to regard the mana part, this is a bit irrelevant to me, the Gluttonous ooze has a point more health than the other one, but only against paladin and maybe hunter you are getting the value out of it (some 1 armor from rogues too; not going to deny that you are slowing them down a bit too).
Despicable Dreadlord and with the Possessed Lackey package. This is more of a question: I don't deny, that the Dreadlord is a strong card and it makes clearing the board and establishing board control easier, but how does it feel, when your Lackey pulls him out instead of a Voidlord. Let's say you are facing a flooded board or you are low on health and want to desperately taunt up. The lackey however pulls the wrong minion. I personally changed my mind about that gnome, I think the N'Zoth package is still kinda risky, but more rewarding than the previous one (the one, which I still run in my deck), but wasn't the price of it having to cut the other useful demons, just so you can always control the outcome of the recruit mechanic? Like I said, this isn't a critique, just a question, since you are playing this deck and you know better. Inb4 I like your deck, my favourite play-style also revolves around the attrition/fatigue strategy.
Gnomferatu isn't really a tech perse, but it's one of the few "early game" minions that always has an impact IF you play the long game, so it fits into the playstyle of the deck. It counterbalances your own card draws, so you can always have various options while staying close / behind your opponent in deck count, which is often very crucial against other control decks. The added bonus of winning games on the spot sometimes is also very good for a 2 drop and it's the only feasible "tech" against Raza that doesn't screw you in other matchups. Darkness just doesn't really work and it's a 1-off and basically means a loss vs aggro. The chances of Dirty Rat hitting Raza are worse than Gnomferatu and it's also terrible in other matchups. Gnome is just a "nice-to-have", it's by no means required I feel. It's really just a desperate means against Raza for the most part, which I face like 80% of the time. Also decent against Kingsbane-mill, but I rarely face that.
I just started testing Ooze, but haven't played much with him yet, since it's holiday season. The few games I played with him, he was really good tho. As control deck you don't really care too much about it being a 3 drop over a 2 drop. Against Hunter, it's really good and can save your skin (and it did in one game). The deck is intended to have as much staying power as possible, so you can basically outlast every other deck. That means shit when Raza nukes you from 36 in a single turn, sadly.
Dreadlord as a standalone is too good not to play I feel. Lackeys were an afterthought. I actually just included Voidlords because I was adding Lackeys after I removed Vulgar Homunculus, since it was terrible against Mage and not good enough against aggro. Of course, sometimes I want a VL and I get a Dreadlord, but very often I'd actually like to get it, since it's somewhat of a threat by itself, whereas VL can be ignored for the most part. It makes Lackey also more consistent since you have 4 targets instead of just 2. Getting Dreadlord back with Gul'Dan is also really good and can wreck some havoc to the enemy board and is a threat. The 4 attack also makes it good against priest. Lastly, it's just very good against aggro matchups (in particular against paladin). You often don't actually survive playing Lackey on 5 and getting a Void Lord on 6. Even if you do, many paladins included Silence exactly for that. So you are basically dead anyway. Just playing a Dreadlord from hand, gives additional and ongoing means to deal with their little minions.
N'Zoth is just amazing, even if you don't get Voidlords back. 2 Mistress and 2 Beetle (+ possible lackeys) means a huge boost to survivability against Hunter, Mage, Priest and the like.
I like your deck (with the exception of The Darkness, like I have also commented on other's decks).
Yeah, everything normal with the tech-choices. I don't have any questions regarding them :)
I know that The Darkness is not a great tech choice, but it delays or even nullify Razakus Priests (in one of the last games of the season the guy played Raza the Chained right after my The Darkness, insta-concede for teh lulz), and sometimes it helps with Aggrodin (they basically grind their own deck, so it is likely that you get the minion awaken). Also, I'm not sure whether Darkness Candle might show up in Shadow Visions's discoveries, does anyone know?
Anyway, I achieved rank 4, but then I was tired of the grinding and I preferred to enjoy the end of the year :)
1) I don't think people will make noobish mistakes like the guy you talked about. The very least they should see, that their Raza isn't glowing, thus they should play him only when the second candle is snuffed. The priest player will only be slowed down, as you also say, but stopped or countered - NO. If your deck had a more proactive strategy, something more fast happening, then yeah, The Darkness would have been a fitting inclusion for that deck strategy. However, because you play the control game, because you can't gather enough pressure on time, because the priest player also has a lot of tools to cycle, because the darkness should be played before Raza hits, i.e. playing him after that doesn't do anything (not to mention a 3 mana shadow word death kills him easily)... sorry dude, but you just postpone your demise for a short period of time, but it will happen eventually. This legendary is only for the memes. I do like him though, as I have fun with him in my wild factory rogue deck, but that's all.
inb4 yes, the priest player should find those candles with shadow visions, as they are treated as spells
2) and against aggro paladin
Your real win-condition is stabilizing. You don't need this card even if they draw a lot. You don't want to have a passive minion against them - every trade is crucial.
My question then is how do you tech against Razakus? Dirty Rat is a Russian roulette, you can get something game-winning (Raza the Chained/Prophet Velen), or one of the other 15+ minions, which is only going to delay the final demise. I like the idea of a Gnomeferatu, but as Zukuu said, it's not a tech perse... Unless you forget about Razakus Priests and try to get your Rin, the First Disciple as soon as possible (just like I did in the last game I had, beating the hell out of a Priest). Either way, it's a matter of three months and then there will be no more combo Priests!
As for the aggro-decks I totally agree with you, it's just that I eventually played against a Pally who managed to get me The Darkness awaken by turn 8 (for teh lulz and his immediate concede) ;)
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Quick question. I don't think I'm necroing this thread, but what do you guys think of Mind Control Tech? A possible combo with Dirty Rat.
This is just a question; the first card can also be good in the mirror matches, as if timed correctly it will give you more value for your DK.
depends on which class you want to run them in, cuz right now, Grand Archivist in priest seems more effective than the traditional way
i like Skulking Geist in control warlock, still gets value against cubelock, some priests, rogue and jades off course.
Dirty Rat is a great card but, as with all tech cards, its viability is completely down to the meta. At the moment it's pretty bad because there are so many big minion decks.
Seeing as how he will be rotating out in a few months it seems his time is nigh.
F
I play this deck, started from rank 15 or so and I'm rank 5 right now.
last two games I won against by fatiguing a Jade Druid and I survived a Spiteful Priest who mindcontrolled two Voidlord, used Twilight Acolyte on The Darkness, copied and fully used a Rin, the First Disciple and a Twisting Nether. I'm doing fine also against aggro/tempo decks.
You can see the tech cards that I use, I basically play toward fatigue, I drop tons of taunts and hope for the best :)
I like your deck (with the exception of The Darkness, like I have also commented on other's decks).
Yeah, everything normal with the tech-choices. I don't have any questions regarding them :)
Speaking of Tech, my Highlander Priest has swapped in Shadow Madness for late game vs Rin, the First Disciple and Voidlord. I can ram them into your other threats, or just Shadow Word: Pain them myself. I've destroyed numerous control warlocks with this strat.
The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
I actually replaced both my Spellbreakers, because they are really only good in a single matchup (Cubelock), and otherwise are too consistent (can hit a Twilight Drake or Palabuffed minion, but that's really it). Skulking Geist is still THE tech card, just because it hits so many decks. It completely kills Jade and Evolve Shaman and can kill 3-4 cards in Raza-Priest, 2-4 vs Cubelock and 2-4 in Rogue. I often go to fatigue so thinning their deck (along with Gnomeferatu, which is the only real counter to Raza-priest - if you are lucky) is an added bonus and often game winning. I currently test Ooze instead of spellbreaker. It's obviously almost match winning against Cubelock, does a decent job against mage, rogue and whatnot.
Currently at rank 1-2, since I don't feel like grinding and only do dailies.
My question then is how do you tech against Razakus? Dirty Rat is a Russian roulette, you can get something game-winning (Raza the Chained/Prophet Velen), or one of the other 15+ minions, which is only going to delay the final demise. I like the idea of a Gnomeferatu, but as Zukuu said, it's not a tech perse... Unless you forget about Razakus Priests and try to get your Rin, the First Disciple as soon as possible (just like I did in the last game I had, beating the hell out of a Priest). Either way, it's a matter of three months and then there will be no more combo Priests!
As for the aggro-decks I totally agree with you, it's just that I eventually played against a Pally who managed to get me The Darkness awaken by turn 8 (for teh lulz and his immediate concede) ;)