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You keep making arguments about how you assume the deck plays. I keep winning games. The only thing I can assume is you really don't know how to play this deck.
But that's fine. the beauty of this game is you can play whatever deck you want. Keep thinking this deck doesn't work and I and other people will keep winning with it.
A rank where people think Malygos is a cuddly puppy and don't remove him. Sorry.. I had to.
Yo just saw this, 33% vs huntards is actually not that bad... your overall winrate is about 70% which most competitive decks strive for. I think you're doing fairly well and are too hard on yourself. Honestly, versus Huntard aggro it's generally a coin flip as far as getting the cards you need to deal with them and despite having tons of board clear Shaman as a class lack the sustain to pull it off unless RNG and the taunt gods are on your side.
'Go home and be a family man!'
Decks (Current as of 12/28):
Sonic boom! | Iron Juggernaut | Rogue
Run 2 Sen'jin Shieldmastas. The way rush hunters tier out, they will stop dead in their tracks and 2 or 3 for 1.
Strifecro ancient watcher , I usually win against any aggro with this.
Teeq 1 , Team Liquid 0
But he wants to play Shaman I think..
These are often a good replacement for Chillwind Yeti - I like the recommendation but if you look at his deck, what would you replace? Doesn't look as though there's much space to add these guys.
'Go home and be a family man!'
Decks (Current as of 12/28):
Sonic boom! | Iron Juggernaut | Rogue
Out of interest, which of your statements is true? You have no troubles against hunter or 33% win rate isn't a bad result? Either you're full of it, or "no troubles" now means "losing 7 out of every 10 games against a class".
Once again, you rag on a guy in the thread who at least explains his results and yet you completely avoid the direct question asking you to explain why you have no troubles?
Either stop being a dick or answer the questions that were posed to you. Shaman has problems against fast aggro, Hunter is the best / most prevalent fast aggro deck, yet somehow you've solved the problem while playing pretty much the same deck as everyone else. Here's your op to enlighten us.
D.S
Reading comprehension good sir, I never said I had a 33% ratio versus Hunters. Not sure where you see someone asking me to explain why I have no troubles versus hunters but since you asked, I'll gladly explain:
Board clear. Taunt. I will mulligan aggressively unless I have Nat Pagle w/ coin or my board clear/overload/silence spells. I rarely keep a creature in hand unless I've already mulliganed. Bad draws lead to losses and sometimes I get straight outplayed but generally, if they don't get their secrets, I find myself in a good spot. ... I also run Earthen Ring Farseer, Acidic Swamp Ooze and never have more than 2 minions on board, 3 if I have a taunt. At the end of the day, I go for a reach finish w/ Rockbiter Weapon + Windfury - if they finish me off then I lose.. If they don't manage to do so, then I pull out ahead. I've been seeing a lot of Hunters on ladder going for the 'bamboozle' play with board control, freezing traps and Savannah Highmane instead of straight aggro as of late (I have dropped to rank 5 on ladder) so my W/L is a bit skewed because of that. Also, I will not hesitate to drop a turn 3 hex on a Wolfrider.
I didn't 'rag' on anyone until he went on to make a similar post to yours. I started with what I'd take as constructive criticism stating that Malygos wasn't viable imo. Aaaaanyways... enjoy your enlightenment.
Edit:
Missed this post:
A turn 3 board clear is not clearing one minion... you can drop Lightning Storm, Hex (which clears one), Earth Shock (also clears one, but no overload). I am not referring to Feral Spirit as a board clear though it is a great turn 3 play versus hunters. Target removal on turn 3 - 4 is often a clear due to mana constraints. I try to avoid using a Rockbiter Weapon to remove minions if I can avoid it. I am sorry if I misled you into thinking it was an ad for MY reach Shaman deck - I didn't create that specific deck, or the archetype but I do feel it's the most viable way to run Shaman so I have been urging Shaddolf to run that archetype instead of the controlly type he's been running since he's been having troubles versus hunters. Since that archetype runs all the spells that are beneficial versus aggro but has the ability to do 18-20 damage in a single turn, I find it to be the most viable Shaman deck type to run on ladder due to the diversity of decks you face. How am the term 'reach' incorrectly - this isn't MTG so please don't go on about flying creatures. It's nice that you're defending your buddy but in my original statement about Bloodlust I clearly explained why I felt it was useless in his deck (because he has so few minions to flood the board). I think you should 'realise' that you lack reading comprehension prior to attacking someone.
'Go home and be a family man!'
Decks (Current as of 12/28):
Sonic boom! | Iron Juggernaut | Rogue
Too many people lose to hunters because they want to get "value" out of their Poly, or Fireball when they are getting their faces rushed down.
Thanks FOO(The Banner God)!
+1 - I've lost doing this myself. I think the most value you can get out of any card versus an aggro deck is conserving your life total.
'Go home and be a family man!'
Decks (Current as of 12/28):
Sonic boom! | Iron Juggernaut | Rogue
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Deck ArchitectHunters are the only reason why druids do better than shamans, shaman can not win a game vs hunters, I had to quit shaman because of that, and I hate hunters in every single possible way because of how broken they are. Only druids are capable of beating that OP shit and because of taunt spam and life gain.
I dont want to play druid, but I am forced to by Blizzard (altho I have a full shaman deck stored in my wallet), good game devs.
@OP: You need to see this paradox at large scale, and you are being part of it:
If you are rank 5 or higher, chance that you will meet legendary ranked players. At legend, they play pretty much control decks, and Kolento rogue.
So it boils down to:
- You meet legends who play control
or - You meet rank 1-2-3-4-... who play aggro faceroll mostly.
It comes down to 50% 50% chance to rank up? No not really. Warrior control is the hot choice to climb up the ladder at the moment. They have armor to slow roll vs aggro decks, and quality minions+removals to fight vs control/late game decks. Pretty much why it's all about vs Warrior control or vs faceroll Paladin/Hunter at high rank.
Druid and Priest (the one with Cabals) aren't bad choice too.
If you're winning >50% of games against hunters as a shaman, your sample size is too small.
Wow... just wow. I figured you didn't know what you were talking about, but I didn't dream you'd have this little of an idea. Where should I start?
Firstly, clips from Hearthstone Stats mean nothing without context. What rank are these games taking place at?
Secondly, you said you had no troubles then gave props to somebody for having a win rate of 33%. It's called making an inference.
Thirdly, apparently what I lack in comprehension I make up in mathematical ability and using it to call bullshit on your ridiculous hypothetical. Your opponent plays a guy turn 1, you play nothing. Your opponent plays at least 1 guy turn 2, you play Nat Pagle, a guy with 0 ability to affect the board without help. On turn 3, your BEST case scenario is your opponent plays 1 guy. Your answer is... "Totem + clear (?) or just a naked Unbound Elemental - most huntards will ignore it"
When asked what that means, your answer is "A turn 3 board clear is not clearing one minion... you can drop Lightning Storm, Hex (which clears one), Earth Shock (also clears one, but no overload). I am not referring to Feral Spirit as a board clear though it is a great turn 3 play versus hunters."
Let's start with the obvious. You're the guy who said clear turn 3, yet you also say that clear is not killing 1 minion. So either you're playing a comically hacked version of Hearthstone that allows you 5 mana on turn 3 (since the only relevant Shaman sweeper costs 3), you can't count or you're just talking out of your ass. Which is it? I can't keep up with the infinite scenarios that you're making up here.
In your perfect scenario, you're playing a totem + a one cost spell, none of which do anything but kill 1 guy (with the exception of Forked Lightning which you're not actually playing) thereby not clearing the board or you're playing an Unbound Elemental by itself, which either gets ignored (apparently) or just dies to what they have on the table. From that point, you're forever behind because they have charge dudes that do damage immediately and a hero power that is a 16 turn clock by itself. If they went first, you're probably playing a sweeper on turn 4 which leaves you overloaded for turns 5 and 6 and completely under pressure, not to mention that if you try to mount an offense it dies to bow + explosive trap. Once again, nothing you've said counters this. Everyone in the thread knows the matchup is horrid through experience, The tournament winner who you ripped off said that Hunter was a bad matchup, yet again through playing almost zero different cards (can't check now because your deck has mysteriously disappeared) magically conjures up 70%. If you had said anything throughout this entire thread or forum at large that made any sense, I'd believe that you had an answer. Clearly, that ain't true.
Your assessment of Bloodlust is laughable, you don't need "minions to flood the board". In mid range Shaman, Bloodlust is a card that rewards incremental board advantage, generally gained through combining totems, burn and mid range sized dudes. If you knew what you were talking about as you seem to claim, you would know that. As for "defending my buddy", I don't know the guy from a bar of soap, nor think Malygos is a great card personally, that being said, what he's saying makes far more sense than any of the stuff you're saying.
Lastly, reach is not an archetype and never will be, no matter how much you try to say it is. Reach is a term generally given to cards in aggro decks that allow you to win when you're running out of cards (as aggro decks tend to do). An example in an aggro Shaman (which your deck wasn't) would be Lava Spike (a card you weren't playing), because it can deal the last 5 damage irrespective of the board state and get you over the line. Nothing more than that, and certainly not a term to describe your archetype (which coincidentally was pretty much the same as everyone elses).
Stop acting like a YGO player and trying to be different for the sake of it, TCG players already have a language for all this stuff.
D.S
Perhaps. The shaman deck I was running, below, was played through rank 15 to 2. I am currently rank 9, dropped trying to make a viable Rogue mill deck.
I disagree, a Mana Tide Totem or Nat Pagle (ideally on turn 1 w/ coin) are great plays due to forcing the hunter to either deal with it or giving you incremental card advantage, thus giving you that much bigger an arsenal to deal with their threats.
shaboogen - you seem stuck on my first post and continue ignoring what I've said... you also didn't answer many of my questions. So .. you win, ignored.
'Go home and be a family man!'
Decks (Current as of 12/28):
Sonic boom! | Iron Juggernaut | Rogue
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Deck ArchitectSo I posted this on a thread but nobody cared to answer, so I decided to post here that people are actually talking about
I was running strifecros shaman list, but ran into some problems vs hunter decks (insta lose just by facing the class itself), so I developed a "anti aggro" list, well my question is: is it worth throwing 800 dust on 2 Earth Elementals?
I Intend to run this list in case it is worth it:
My take on Earth Elemental is that it's too slow, specially versus hunter aggro. I would not run it. I have found some good results by adding 1 Wild Pyromancer and 1 Forked Lightning as aggro hunters tend to run a lot of 1/2 hp minions. I am also iffy on throwing in 1 or 2 Earthen Ring Farseers
'Go home and be a family man!'
Decks (Current as of 12/28):
Sonic boom! | Iron Juggernaut | Rogue
I don't think it's worth the dust. Hunter has really nice carddraw in form of UTH and Buzz, so it's really common that they have silence when they need it. Yeah, you got a 7/8 on the board, but with overload 3 and no taunt because of the silence you are still really screwed. Up to that point of the game you shouldn't have been able to put a lot of damage on the hunter, so he can take a hit or 2 from the elemental if he needs to, while he kicks your ass with charge minions.
btw your mana curve is quite high, so it's no wonder you get hit hart by hunter. i haven't played shaman on ranked yet, but did you consider Sunfury Protector and maybe Chillwind Yeti? That way you lower your curve and have more options for taunts, which should helpt against aggro.
Sunwalker is nice and all, but it's slow as fuck and as i said, elementals in an aggro meta with quite a lot of silence isn't really that great.
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StaffOkay, the personal remarks and attacks stop here. There is no need whatsoever to make any argument you are making personal. If you feel the need to participate in this discussion then do it by using examples, and proof, not by covertly or outright attacking other posters on their opinion. Prove them wrong, don't insult them!
If you see a post that is bad use the report function under it and the moderation staff will have a look at it and take action when needed. Now, continue the discussion civilly, please.
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But guys, mage is the faceroll class. 10 mana pyroblast is OP. Make it 12 mana so mages have to play it with innervate.
My thought process when I vs decks with burst spells: usually calculate the potential damage they could do via their spell, by tracking the number of key spell they have spent. Generally for me this game was like "I bait you to use your burst spell as removal", not 100% work but it makes my game easier to control :)
For example, if I manage to bait out an Execute/Shield Slam/Fireball/"Beast card that deals 5dmg" on my Yeti/Azure/Unbound/flame/mana tide then I guess my late game cards are crying in joy lol