As someone playing rush hunter, aggressive removal like forked lightning works really well, and big mobs like earth elemental work really well, as they can be silenced but rush hunter generally doesn't use deadly shot.
The problem with most shaman versus hunter is that it seems like shaman want to fill up their side of the board with tons of minions. The problem is, small shaman minions are no where near as good as the murloc rush minions. A good warlock draw can run over a hunter in 5 turns, maybe 4, to where unleash the hounds would be too late. If it's turn 7-8, and you as a shaman have your 2 totems, 2 feral spirits, an unbound elemental, flametongue totem, and I'm sitting with a buzzard and UTH, you're dead.
Earth elementals have basically made or broken games for me. EE + rockbiter + windfury can finish a hunter (20 damage). You basically need to become like a druid. Feral spirits, while being a good card in almost all cases, is horrible, horrible, horrible versus hunter. Unbound elemental + defender of argus/flametongue totem + blowing forked lightning/lightning bolt/stormforged axe to buff the elemental is your best shot at beating a hunter rush, finishing with EE as noted.
I would say generally speaking that Unleash the Hounds is a hard counter against almost every shaman playstyle I've ever come against. Filling up your board with 5, 6, 7 minions is just the absolute worst thing you can do versus a hunter.
The ideal draw for a shaman versus rush hunter would be turn 2 coin elemental, turn 3 axe and lightning bolt or forked lightning, turn 4 totem (pray for a healing totem) storm/forked/bolt, turn 5 EE or leeroy + windfury if you are in lethal, then turn 6 rockbiter/windfury. You need to use your spells and axe to aggressively remove.
Basically, you want to aggressively mulligan for your unbound elemental and overload cards. If for some reason you are finding yourself against a lot of these guys, Defender of Argus, Chillwind Yeti, Harvest Golem, even something like Mogu'shan warden can help slow down a hunter rush.
I have not run earth ele's for a long time because I was losing to hunter at rank 18 VERY often and they ALL seemed to run deadly shot at that time. I will add one in now and see how it goes\
edit: LOL first game I lose on turn 6 because my earth ele misdirected to my face and killed me, after it was silenced turn 5 and he swung at my face with 6 minions
edit2: next game another hunter, did not draw any of my taunt cards so lost by turn 7 despite having 8 cards in my hand
Argus is really good against hunters for sure. Against traps, always test traps with tiny minions as much as possible. Feral spirit is a decent choice to test a trap or a pair of traps. Best to use the 1/1 fire totem if it's up. The other trap hunters use is freezing trap, you don't want to drop your EE and then have it sitting in your hand for even more mana to cast it.
General rule of thumb against hunters is no more than 3 minions on board at any time. A combo that has gotten me before is unbound elemental then next turn lightning bolt/stormforged axe.
Where shaman start failing is when they put out their unbound + totem, then feral spirits + totem. 5 relatively small minions on a board against a hunter? GG.
Argus is really good against hunters for sure. Against traps, always test traps with tiny minions as much as possible. Feral spirit is a decent choice to test a trap or a pair of traps. Best to use the 1/1 fire totem if it's up. The other trap hunters use is freezing trap, you don't want to drop your EE and then have it sitting in your hand for even more mana to cast it.
General rule of thumb against hunters is no more than 3 minions on board at any time. A combo that has gotten me before is unbound elemental then next turn lightning bolt/stormforged axe.
Where shaman start failing is when they put out their unbound + totem, then feral spirits + totem. 5 relatively small minions on a board against a hunter? GG.
3 is even a bit high in my opinion without one of them being a high health taunt.I wouldn't drop more than 2 minions until the huntard has 3 cards in his hand
1. Lots of 2-drop minions to trade & stabilize the early game. Preferably 4x 2/1, 2/2 or 3/2 minions + 1x Flametongue Totem as the 5th one. 2. 2x Defender of Argus 3. 2x Rockbiter Weapon (hero -> kills early drops) 4. Take out a bunch of Overloads from the deck. They slow the Shaman down too much vs a fast clock.
Completely disagree, in fact, I'd say the opposite of most of this. You don't need DoA since you have feral spirit and 25% chance at a taunt. The 'lots of 2 drops' idea will lead to minions that will just buff the hunter for his OTK.
Keep in mind generally he's already done damage with the minion he put in play due to charge, for the same reason, rockbiter on the hero is a bad idea. Lastly, I'd add MORE overload if anything (forked lightning and lightning storm are amazing versus aggro). Lastly, don't be afraid to hex everything.
I run a spellpower shaman and have very little trouble with hunter aggro. The biggest thing you have to remember against a hunter is not use your HP constantly to give him minions for UTH. Don't be afraid to overcharge if it saves you damage and keeps the board clear. Feral a Spirit is your friend even if it gets multi shot because it takes a t least one turn to clear. Your main goal is make it late game to drop your big boys. Not just earth elemental. If you can make it long enough Fire Elemental will allow you to get and keep board control. EE is such a huge target and overloads you so much the next turn that I rarely play it until later. I'd much rather to sunfury minions turn 5/6 and have two taunts up. Even if he plays the flame trap, doesn't mean you have to trigger it next turn. sometimes its better to buy yourself another turn with the taunt up.
think of all the clears you have. Lightning Bolt, forked Lightning, Lightning Storm, Earth Shock, Lava, hex. Combined with good value minions like Feral Spirit, faerie dragon, harvest golem early; You shouldn't have any trouble against aggro unless you get an awful RNG.
I run a spellpower shaman and have very little trouble with hunter aggro. The biggest thing you have to remember against a hunter is not use your HP constantly to give him minions for UTH. Don't be afraid to overcharge if it saves you damage and keeps the board clear. Feral a Spirit is your friend even if it gets multi shot because it takes a t least one turn to clear. Your main goal is make it late game to drop your big boys. Not just earth elemental. If you can make it long enough Fire Elemental will allow you to get and keep board control. EE is such a huge target and overloads you so much the next turn that I rarely play it until later. I'd much rather to sunfury minions turn 5/6 and have two taunts up. Even if he plays the flame trap, doesn't mean you have to trigger it next turn. sometimes its better to buy yourself another turn with the taunt up.
think of all the clears you have. Lightning Bolt, forked Lightning, Lightning Storm, Earth Shock, Lava, hex. Combined with good value minions like Feral Spirit, faerie dragon, harvest golem early; You shouldn't have any trouble against aggro unless you get an awful RNG.
Interesting! I'd like to see your spellpower deck - could you post/link it?
As you see this deck is light on minions except for heavy hitters. It uses a combination of spells and Bloodlust + Totems as a finisher. It was a deck floating around the forums awhile back. Might still be. Either you win mid game by using your spells to keep your minions alive and pop a bloodlust or you can win late by the sheer power of Malygos. I have yet to have someone "waste" a hard removal on it when he hits (or you can usually fish hard removal out before he hits) and then next turn it's usually over. An 8-9dmg lightning storm is the most amazing board clear. 10dmg Lava Burst, 8dmg Lightning Bolts.
This deck works amazingly well against aggro decks because of all the clear and because of bloodlust you can usually do ok against control decks.
As you see this deck is light on minions except for heavy hitters. It uses a combination of spells and Bloodlust + Totems as a finisher. It was a deck floating around the forums awhile back. Might still be. Either you win mid game by using your spells to keep your minions alive and pop a bloodlust or you can win late by the sheer power of Malygos. I have yet to have someone "waste" a hard removal on it when he hits (or you can usually fish hard removal out before he hits) and then next turn it's usually over. An 8-9dmg lightning storm is the most amazing board clear. 10dmg Lava Burst, 8dmg Lightning Bolts.
This deck works amazingly well against aggro decks because of all the clear and because of bloodlust you can usually do ok against control decks.
The only thing that's different in this deck from every other Shaman deck is that you have a Kobold Geomancer & a useless Malygos. Chances are by the time it's turn 9 and you get to drop him you've played all your spells so... he's just getting removed. Furthermore, you only have two Earth Elemental as 'targets' before you get to drop your Malygos, both of whom will quickly be removed leaving your opponent plenty to deal with Malygos. Lastly, you have a Bloodlust in the deck but as you said yourself, it's light on minions less the 3 'heavy hitters' (who WILL be removed) so what are you using it on? I may be missing something amazing but this deck is not viable...
Earth Elemental is just a bad card in the current meta, it's way too slow. Especially in a deck like this, if you play him turn 5 you have no turn 6 play. Even if you play him turn 8, what will you follow up with? Another Earth Elemental? That will make it so you drop your Malygos even later... Honestly, Malygos may as well just be a Druid specific card, maybe Mage - it's not viable in anything else.
I can see maybe a Druid with a bad draw or a Rogue that blew all his eviscerates on your totems losing to this... oh and as you said in your post, it counters the Huntard too.
I am not having any problems versus hunter with my shaman deck, I urge you to try going for reach, agian
I don't own leeroy =/
You can use a replacement for Leeroy Jenkins: Reckless Rocketeer and Argent Commander come to mind. Do you have an Al'Akir the Windlord? You'll be playing the two charge cards a few turns slower but they essentially have the same effect with Rockbiter Weapon + Windfury; one less damage, two with the windfury, isn't that big a difference, especially considering they are common neutral cards.
1. Lots of 2-drop minions to trade & stabilize the early game. Preferably 4x 2/1, 2/2 or 3/2 minions + 1x Flametongue Totem as the 5th one. 2. 2x Defender of Argus 3. 2x Rockbiter Weapon (hero -> kills early drops) 4. Take out a bunch of Overloads from the deck. They slow the Shaman down too much vs a fast clock.
Completely disagree, in fact, I'd say the opposite of most of this. You don't need DoA since you have feral spirit and 25% chance at a taunt. The 'lots of 2 drops' idea will lead to minions that will just buff the hunter for his OTK.
Keep in mind generally he's already done damage with the minion he put in play due to charge, for the same reason, rockbiter on the hero is a bad idea. Lastly, I'd add MORE overload if anything (forked lightning and lightning storm are amazing versus aggro). Lastly, don't be afraid to hex everything.
What I meant is that summoning random totems vs Hunter mostly makes their UtH stronger, and one Explosion Trap wipes out all the totems anyhow. So, if your game plan (without counting in playing first/second or the coin) is something along the lines of t1 skip (or lightning bolt, overload 1) t2 totem (or skip after lightning bolt) t3 feral spirit (or lightning storm), overload 2 t4 totem t5 earth elemental, overload 3 t6 hex
you are giving HUGE tempo advantages to the opponent.
I would personally much rather, for example: t1 skip or Rockbiter Weapon/Earth Shock to kill 1 minion without overload t2 mana cost 2 minion to trade/beat face t3 mana cost 3 minion to trade/beat face t4 defender of argus to buff the 1-2 minions you have so they can kill 1 minion and survive to beat a second minion t5 mana cost 5 minion to trade/beat face t6 2 of 3: Hex / Lightning Storm / Feral Spirit / mana cost 3 minion (or Fire Elemental)
The important thing to notice here is that mana cost 2 minion can be used as "curve fillers" the same way you would normally fill the curve with a totem. But since the totems make UtH better, they are bad curve fillers vs Hunter. Overload, on the other hand, removes mana from the next turn, making playing 2 cards in the same turn substantially more difficult which directly hurts your health total.
The plays above lead to tempo advantage for the opponent either way.. also, you never play overload turn 1, even if it's to remove a Nat Pagle.. you just don't. The argus play will lead to silence + UTH. Small minions will not work versus huntard. The only viable means a Shaman has versus a huntard is to clear the board and keep it clear until he's gained enough advantage to end.
The ideal game versus a Huntard with perfect draws in my eyes would go as follows:
Pass
Nat Pagle
Totem + clear (?) or just a naked Unbound Elemental - most huntards will ignore it
I really suggest you actually try and play it before you make blind assumptions about how the deck performs. It's quite good in the current meta. My record at this time is 33-7 with it. I'm not saying it's a perfect deck by any means but it clearly and easily handles rush decks without any trouble which is a large portion of the meta and has ways around most problems.
IF it's really such a bad deck then why are only two cards different from "every other shaman deck"? Also I don't understand your blind hatred of Malygos. As I pointed out combined with so many spells he wrecks face unless he is destroyed. Heck on turn 10 you can drop him and still Lightning Bolt for 8dmg. By no means will you have "spent all your spells" by turn 9/10. That's 10 spells and that's assuming basically that your only draw the entire game is a spell and you only choose to cast spells. Again. TRY IT before you judge it because in play he works out great.
You play Shaman and you don't know what to use bloodlust on? Really? It's a killer combo with your totems and minions. Yes the deck only has *13* minions. But If you count the Feral Spirit that's 17 minions and if you count the totems you can build up that's 21 minions. There's more than enough minions to make it viable.
You play this deck differently depending on who you go against. Hunters you rely on spells and Feral Spirits to protect you until you can drop the big cards. Which I don't know where you're getting 3 heavy hitters. There's 5 PLUS Unbound Elemental. Most decks only run 2/3 hard removals and you can fish out removal using Unbound Elemental because people WILL remove it as soon as it hits if they have the ability to. You don't play Earth Elemental turn 5. You play EE depending on the pace of the game and how many cards the opponent has. I usually will play him turn 10 after dropping Malygos. The WHOLE POINT of this deck is to SLOW DOWN the pace of the game and give you control. Of course he's a great card for this deck because this deck goes late EVERY hand unless you force quits by rushes early.
My last 7 matches since using the tracker I won all of them and they went to turn 9, 5, 22, 17, 23, 19, and 20. 3 Locks, 2 Hunters, 1 Priest, 1 Paladin.
Your last sentence of the first paragraph is right. You are missing something. Try this deck before you judge it then come back.
A hunter's perfect draws consist of guys at turns 1 and 2 which you can't answer until turn 3. Your turn 3 answers either consist of totem + a kill spell on 1 guy / Rockbiter which likely costs you life, then somehow you're still "clearing" while overloaded for the next 3 turns while not really playing any guys? What are these "clears" that you're talking about? Target removal on 1 guy? Lightning Storm? Feral Spirit?
WTF are you on about? Every one of your posts is an ad for your "reach" deck, as if it's some unique archetype you've crafted instead of a word you've co-opted and are using incorrectly. You rag on the guy (mythrol) in here who's making sense by saying his deck isn't viable yet fail to realise what Bloodlust is actually used for and you just act like a condescending jerk without actually offering any information of merit.
Your list plays no cards that give you any more game against Hunter than the standard yet you say that you have no problems. Explain that.
I really suggest you actually try and play it before you make blind assumptions about how the deck performs. It's quite good in the current meta. My record at this time is 33-7 with it. I'm not saying it's a perfect deck by any means but it clearly and easily handles rush decks without any trouble which is a large portion of the meta and has ways around most problems.
IF it's really such a bad deck then why are only two cards different from "every other shaman deck"? Also I don't understand your blind hatred of Malygos. As I pointed out combined with so many spells he wrecks face unless he is destroyed. Heck on turn 10 you can drop him and still Lightning Bolt for 8dmg. By no means will you have "spent all your spells" by turn 9/10. That's 10 spells and that's assuming basically that your only draw the entire game is a spell and you only choose to cast spells. Again. TRY IT before you judge it because in play he works out great.
You play Shaman and you don't know what to use bloodlust on? Really? It's a killer combo with your totems and minions. Yes the deck only has *13* minions. But If you count the Feral Spirit that's 17 minions and if you count the totems you can build up that's 21 minions. There's more than enough minions to make it viable.
You play this deck differently depending on who you go against. Hunters you rely on spells and Feral Spirits to protect you until you can drop the big cards. Which I don't know where you're getting 3 heavy hitters. There's 5 PLUS Unbound Elemental. Most decks only run 2/3 hard removals and you can fish out removal using Unbound Elemental because people WILL remove it as soon as it hits if they have the ability to. You don't play Earth Elemental turn 5. You play EE depending on the pace of the game and how many cards the opponent has. I usually will play him turn 10 after dropping Malygos. The WHOLE POINT of this deck is to SLOW DOWN the pace of the game and give you control. Of course he's a great card for this deck because this deck goes late EVERY hand unless you force quits by rushes early.
My last 7 matches since using the tracker I won all of them and they went to turn 9, 5, 22, 17, 23, 19, and 20. 3 Locks, 2 Hunters, 1 Priest, 1 Paladin.
Your last sentence of the first paragraph is right. You are missing something. Try this deck before you judge it then come back.
Where to even start... I suppose I'll work my way up:
So you're slowing down the pace of the game.. how? With spells I assume since the deck is 'light on minions'? So what're you comboing with Malygos?
I think you missed the point on Bloodlust - of course I know what to use it on but you're not flooding the board so...
'You play Shaman and you don't know what to use bloodlust on? Really? It's a killer combo with your totems and minions. Yes the deck only has *13* minions. But If you count the Feral Spirit that's 17 minions and if you count the totems you can build up that's 21 minions. There's more than enough minions to make it viable.' So you're assuming everything lives? lol... I'd love to see you get more than 3 minions on board versus a competent opponent.
I never said it was a 'bad deck' just that I don't feel it's viable in the current meta.
I don't have 'blind hatred' for Malygos - I explained myself but will do so again: Malygos is not a viable card because the only spells you have available in the deck will most likely be used to deal with threats prior to turn 10 (or 9 with coin). Furthermore, unless the opponent has a BAD BAD draw it's not surviving the turn.
Everything you've said is based on assumptions, including that I haven't tried playing the deck... but I'm sure I am 'playing it wrong' or am a 'bad player' so I'll let you carry on thinking most people run 2-3 removal cards and that this is a viable deck in the current meta.
If you're counting the Unbound Elementals as 'big cards' .. well.. there's a lot to be said there I suppose. A 6/5 Fire Elemental, I don't think counts either as it's easy to remove with only 5 health. There are definite strengths in the deck but with all the overload you are running and your win conditions depending on really everything working as you planned, I stand by what I said - the deck isn't viable.
Has anyone had any luck combating hunters at a good rate with control shaman?
Do you use Abomination any? I've heard that they stop rush stuff.
1. Lightning Storm
2. Earth Elemental
3. ????
4. Profit.
^ exactly, storm is very rarely good value. I might try running EE's again...took them out a while back because they were removed too easily..
But since removing them I jumped from rank 12 to 5..
As someone playing rush hunter, aggressive removal like forked lightning works really well, and big mobs like earth elemental work really well, as they can be silenced but rush hunter generally doesn't use deadly shot.
The problem with most shaman versus hunter is that it seems like shaman want to fill up their side of the board with tons of minions. The problem is, small shaman minions are no where near as good as the murloc rush minions. A good warlock draw can run over a hunter in 5 turns, maybe 4, to where unleash the hounds would be too late. If it's turn 7-8, and you as a shaman have your 2 totems, 2 feral spirits, an unbound elemental, flametongue totem, and I'm sitting with a buzzard and UTH, you're dead.
Earth elementals have basically made or broken games for me. EE + rockbiter + windfury can finish a hunter (20 damage). You basically need to become like a druid. Feral spirits, while being a good card in almost all cases, is horrible, horrible, horrible versus hunter. Unbound elemental + defender of argus/flametongue totem + blowing forked lightning/lightning bolt/stormforged axe to buff the elemental is your best shot at beating a hunter rush, finishing with EE as noted.
I would say generally speaking that Unleash the Hounds is a hard counter against almost every shaman playstyle I've ever come against. Filling up your board with 5, 6, 7 minions is just the absolute worst thing you can do versus a hunter.
The ideal draw for a shaman versus rush hunter would be turn 2 coin elemental, turn 3 axe and lightning bolt or forked lightning, turn 4 totem (pray for a healing totem) storm/forked/bolt, turn 5 EE or leeroy + windfury if you are in lethal, then turn 6 rockbiter/windfury. You need to use your spells and axe to aggressively remove.
Basically, you want to aggressively mulligan for your unbound elemental and overload cards. If for some reason you are finding yourself against a lot of these guys, Defender of Argus, Chillwind Yeti, Harvest Golem, even something like Mogu'shan warden can help slow down a hunter rush.
I have not run earth ele's for a long time because I was losing to hunter at rank 18 VERY often and they ALL seemed to run deadly shot at that time. I will add one in now and see how it goes\
edit: LOL first game I lose on turn 6 because my earth ele misdirected to my face and killed me, after it was silenced turn 5 and he swung at my face with 6 minions
edit2: next game another hunter, did not draw any of my taunt cards so lost by turn 7 despite having 8 cards in my hand
should I add a second argus? It is great help but with only 1 it often doesn't come into play
Argus is really good against hunters for sure. Against traps, always test traps with tiny minions as much as possible. Feral spirit is a decent choice to test a trap or a pair of traps. Best to use the 1/1 fire totem if it's up. The other trap hunters use is freezing trap, you don't want to drop your EE and then have it sitting in your hand for even more mana to cast it.
General rule of thumb against hunters is no more than 3 minions on board at any time. A combo that has gotten me before is unbound elemental then next turn lightning bolt/stormforged axe.
Where shaman start failing is when they put out their unbound + totem, then feral spirits + totem. 5 relatively small minions on a board against a hunter? GG.
Silence stops Abomination stuff
I am not having any problems versus hunter with my shaman deck, I urge you to try going for reach, agian
'Go home and be a family man!'
Decks (Current as of 12/28):
Sonic boom! | Iron Juggernaut | Rogue
3 is even a bit high in my opinion without one of them being a high health taunt.I wouldn't drop more than 2 minions until the huntard has 3 cards in his hand
'Go home and be a family man!'
Decks (Current as of 12/28):
Sonic boom! | Iron Juggernaut | Rogue
Completely disagree, in fact, I'd say the opposite of most of this. You don't need DoA since you have feral spirit and 25% chance at a taunt. The 'lots of 2 drops' idea will lead to minions that will just buff the hunter for his OTK.
Keep in mind generally he's already done damage with the minion he put in play due to charge, for the same reason, rockbiter on the hero is a bad idea. Lastly, I'd add MORE overload if anything (forked lightning and lightning storm are amazing versus aggro). Lastly, don't be afraid to hex everything.
'Go home and be a family man!'
Decks (Current as of 12/28):
Sonic boom! | Iron Juggernaut | Rogue
I don't own leeroy =/
I run a spellpower shaman and have very little trouble with hunter aggro. The biggest thing you have to remember against a hunter is not use your HP constantly to give him minions for UTH. Don't be afraid to overcharge if it saves you damage and keeps the board clear. Feral a Spirit is your friend even if it gets multi shot because it takes a t least one turn to clear. Your main goal is make it late game to drop your big boys. Not just earth elemental. If you can make it long enough Fire Elemental will allow you to get and keep board control. EE is such a huge target and overloads you so much the next turn that I rarely play it until later. I'd much rather to sunfury minions turn 5/6 and have two taunts up. Even if he plays the flame trap, doesn't mean you have to trigger it next turn. sometimes its better to buy yourself another turn with the taunt up.
think of all the clears you have. Lightning Bolt, forked Lightning, Lightning Storm, Earth Shock, Lava, hex. Combined with good value minions like Feral Spirit, faerie dragon, harvest golem early; You shouldn't have any trouble against aggro unless you get an awful RNG.
Interesting! I'd like to see your spellpower deck - could you post/link it?
As you see this deck is light on minions except for heavy hitters. It uses a combination of spells and Bloodlust + Totems as a finisher. It was a deck floating around the forums awhile back. Might still be. Either you win mid game by using your spells to keep your minions alive and pop a bloodlust or you can win late by the sheer power of Malygos. I have yet to have someone "waste" a hard removal on it when he hits (or you can usually fish hard removal out before he hits) and then next turn it's usually over. An 8-9dmg lightning storm is the most amazing board clear. 10dmg Lava Burst, 8dmg Lightning Bolts.
This deck works amazingly well against aggro decks because of all the clear and because of bloodlust you can usually do ok against control decks.
The only thing that's different in this deck from every other Shaman deck is that you have a Kobold Geomancer & a useless Malygos. Chances are by the time it's turn 9 and you get to drop him you've played all your spells so... he's just getting removed. Furthermore, you only have two Earth Elemental as 'targets' before you get to drop your Malygos, both of whom will quickly be removed leaving your opponent plenty to deal with Malygos. Lastly, you have a Bloodlust in the deck but as you said yourself, it's light on minions less the 3 'heavy hitters' (who WILL be removed) so what are you using it on? I may be missing something amazing but this deck is not viable...
Earth Elemental is just a bad card in the current meta, it's way too slow. Especially in a deck like this, if you play him turn 5 you have no turn 6 play. Even if you play him turn 8, what will you follow up with? Another Earth Elemental? That will make it so you drop your Malygos even later... Honestly, Malygos may as well just be a Druid specific card, maybe Mage - it's not viable in anything else.
I can see maybe a Druid with a bad draw or a Rogue that blew all his eviscerates on your totems losing to this... oh and as you said in your post, it counters the Huntard too.
You can use a replacement for Leeroy Jenkins: Reckless Rocketeer and Argent Commander come to mind. Do you have an Al'Akir the Windlord? You'll be playing the two charge cards a few turns slower but they essentially have the same effect with Rockbiter Weapon + Windfury; one less damage, two with the windfury, isn't that big a difference, especially considering they are common neutral cards.
The plays above lead to tempo advantage for the opponent either way.. also, you never play overload turn 1, even if it's to remove a Nat Pagle.. you just don't. The argus play will lead to silence + UTH. Small minions will not work versus huntard. The only viable means a Shaman has versus a huntard is to clear the board and keep it clear until he's gained enough advantage to end.
The ideal game versus a Huntard with perfect draws in my eyes would go as follows:
'Go home and be a family man!'
Decks (Current as of 12/28):
Sonic boom! | Iron Juggernaut | Rogue
I really suggest you actually try and play it before you make blind assumptions about how the deck performs. It's quite good in the current meta. My record at this time is 33-7 with it. I'm not saying it's a perfect deck by any means but it clearly and easily handles rush decks without any trouble which is a large portion of the meta and has ways around most problems.
IF it's really such a bad deck then why are only two cards different from "every other shaman deck"? Also I don't understand your blind hatred of Malygos. As I pointed out combined with so many spells he wrecks face unless he is destroyed. Heck on turn 10 you can drop him and still Lightning Bolt for 8dmg. By no means will you have "spent all your spells" by turn 9/10. That's 10 spells and that's assuming basically that your only draw the entire game is a spell and you only choose to cast spells. Again. TRY IT before you judge it because in play he works out great.
You play Shaman and you don't know what to use bloodlust on? Really? It's a killer combo with your totems and minions. Yes the deck only has *13* minions. But If you count the Feral Spirit that's 17 minions and if you count the totems you can build up that's 21 minions. There's more than enough minions to make it viable.
You play this deck differently depending on who you go against. Hunters you rely on spells and Feral Spirits to protect you until you can drop the big cards. Which I don't know where you're getting 3 heavy hitters. There's 5 PLUS Unbound Elemental. Most decks only run 2/3 hard removals and you can fish out removal using Unbound Elemental because people WILL remove it as soon as it hits if they have the ability to. You don't play Earth Elemental turn 5. You play EE depending on the pace of the game and how many cards the opponent has. I usually will play him turn 10 after dropping Malygos. The WHOLE POINT of this deck is to SLOW DOWN the pace of the game and give you control. Of course he's a great card for this deck because this deck goes late EVERY hand unless you force quits by rushes early.
My last 7 matches since using the tracker I won all of them and they went to turn 9, 5, 22, 17, 23, 19, and 20. 3 Locks, 2 Hunters, 1 Priest, 1 Paladin.
Your last sentence of the first paragraph is right. You are missing something. Try this deck before you judge it then come back.
I don't really understand how you can state that you have no issues with Hunters then claim that an ideal draw consists of...
A hunter's perfect draws consist of guys at turns 1 and 2 which you can't answer until turn 3. Your turn 3 answers either consist of totem + a kill spell on 1 guy / Rockbiter which likely costs you life, then somehow you're still "clearing" while overloaded for the next 3 turns while not really playing any guys? What are these "clears" that you're talking about? Target removal on 1 guy? Lightning Storm? Feral Spirit?
WTF are you on about? Every one of your posts is an ad for your "reach" deck, as if it's some unique archetype you've crafted instead of a word you've co-opted and are using incorrectly. You rag on the guy (mythrol) in here who's making sense by saying his deck isn't viable yet fail to realise what Bloodlust is actually used for and you just act like a condescending jerk without actually offering any information of merit.
Your list plays no cards that give you any more game against Hunter than the standard yet you say that you have no problems. Explain that.
D.S
I seem to only win when I have a perfect hand. Too often if I don't have a turn 2 play its over before it began
My hunter win rate compared to other classes;
Where to even start... I suppose I'll work my way up:
So you're slowing down the pace of the game.. how? With spells I assume since the deck is 'light on minions'? So what're you comboing with Malygos?
I think you missed the point on Bloodlust - of course I know what to use it on but you're not flooding the board so...
'You play Shaman and you don't know what to use bloodlust on? Really? It's a killer combo with your totems and minions. Yes the deck only has *13* minions. But If you count the Feral Spirit that's 17 minions and if you count the totems you can build up that's 21 minions. There's more than enough minions to make it viable.' So you're assuming everything lives? lol... I'd love to see you get more than 3 minions on board versus a competent opponent.
I never said it was a 'bad deck' just that I don't feel it's viable in the current meta.
I don't have 'blind hatred' for Malygos - I explained myself but will do so again: Malygos is not a viable card because the only spells you have available in the deck will most likely be used to deal with threats prior to turn 10 (or 9 with coin). Furthermore, unless the opponent has a BAD BAD draw it's not surviving the turn.
Everything you've said is based on assumptions, including that I haven't tried playing the deck... but I'm sure I am 'playing it wrong' or am a 'bad player' so I'll let you carry on thinking most people run 2-3 removal cards and that this is a viable deck in the current meta.
If you're counting the Unbound Elementals as 'big cards' .. well.. there's a lot to be said there I suppose. A 6/5 Fire Elemental, I don't think counts either as it's easy to remove with only 5 health. There are definite strengths in the deck but with all the overload you are running and your win conditions depending on really everything working as you planned, I stand by what I said - the deck isn't viable.
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Decks (Current as of 12/28):
Sonic boom! | Iron Juggernaut | Rogue