So recently I've been seeing topics where people believe shaman is not in a great place right now after BRM. Many people are disappointed that Lava Shock decks were short lived and didn't really influence the meta that much. In that vein of things, Fireguard Destroyer is an excellent card that has seen inclusion in many decks, but is just another 'value' card that doesn't define a deck.
Many people seem to consider Shaman's "unfair" mechanic to be value minions like Fire Elemental. And this may have been true back in vanilla HS. However with Naxx's release I think Shaman's unfair mechanic shifted towards Deathrattle decks. Is there a reason we don't see people abusing this more? In my opinion, deathrattle abuse with Ancestral Spirit and Reincarnate seems to be the best way to move forward with the class.
There's got to be a way to build a stable, consistent deck with deathrattle abuse (that includes some BRM cards) to bring Shaman to the forefront again; without relying on hail mary/gimmick cards like Baron Rivendare, Feugen, or Stalagg.
An interesting idea, I might play around with that later. I would like to see Feral Spirits overload get reduced by 1, or something changed with the hero power. I don't know about others but for me, I feel like in the current meta your asking for punishment if you play shaman. Tooo many hunters. But maybe I just don't know how to deal with em.. I can hear double kill command in the background sigh..
with all this huntard around i find myself needing knife juggler plus ur standard creeper and nerubian egg and all that swarmy wolf and stuff of DR. BOOM and running seagiant and neptulon with drakes and mana tide and only running a single lighnting storm and earthshock with 2 rockbiter for spell and a doomhammer as another alternative finisher.
pretty much a more swarmy deck to outswarm aggro even though unleash the hound is still a B**** its better than standard late shaman getting torn by mech anything and shockadin.
Deathrattle has always felt a little too 'cute' in the class. I run into these decks on occasion and the players always tends to focus on working gimmicks with Reincarnate rather than trying to beat their opponent.
Been tinkering with a dragon deck that has been having some fair success. Using Dragonkin Sorcerer, Rockbiter Weapon, and a 1 of Windfury as well as the above mentioned Fireguard Destroyer, plus a few other dragons, a 1 of Blackwing Corruptor and other Shaman staple spells and minions. Unsure of it's viability, but it hits like a truck.
So recently I've been seeing topics where people believe shaman is not in a great place right now after BRM. Many people are disappointed that Lava Shock decks were short lived and didn't really influence the meta that much. In that vein of things, Fireguard Destroyer is an excellent card that has seen inclusion in many decks, but is just another 'value' card that doesn't define a deck.
Many people seem to consider Shaman's "unfair" mechanic to be value minions like Fire Elemental. And this may have been true back in vanilla HS. However with Naxx's release I think Shaman's unfair mechanic shifted towards Deathrattle decks. Is there a reason we don't see people abusing this more? In my opinion, deathrattle abuse with Ancestral Spirit and Reincarnate seems to be the best way to move forward with the class.
There's got to be a way to build a stable, consistent deck with deathrattle abuse (that includes some BRM cards) to bring Shaman to the forefront again; without relying on hail mary/gimmick cards like Baron Rivendare, Feugen, or Stalagg.
Any thoughts?
To be honest, in my personal experience, Ancestral spirit and reincarnate are already "hail mary/gimmick" cards. Ancestral because it has so many requirements to be truly good:
1. You need to have a minion you really want to use it on
2. This minion needs to survive a turn
3. Your opponent needs to have a minion on board himself that can kill your minion.
In ANY other case, you run the risk of getting silenced/polymorphed/hexed etc., which will always end with a significant tempo loss you often don't recover from.
Reincarnate has mostly three cases were it's really great: Nerubian, Sylvanas, Kel. Otherwise it's quite meh, and two of those three are heavy late game combo that aren't even able to dish out lots of dmg, which is what you generally expect from truly strong late game combos. Sure, reincarnate is "flexible", but in nearly all of the cases were I use reincarnate to pseudo-silence something, I'd much prefered to have something else in hand that deals with the threat better.
Currently, using heavy taunt works quite good for me since it allows you to actually beat face hunter quite consistently. Also, Powermace is so stupidly strong & reliable that you almost have to use it. Otherwise, I'm torn between burst (rockbiter+doomhammer+al'akir) and value (Boom+Neptulon+Rag). The main problem with shaman, at least to me, seems to be that all spells and battlecries deal 3 dmg. Dealing with a token board is a huge pain in the ass, just as dealing with a simple spider tank is, if you have nothing on board.
Deathrattle has always felt a little too 'cute' in the class. I run into these decks on occasion and the players always tends to focus on working gimmicks with Reincarnate rather than trying to beat their opponent.
Been tinkering with a dragon deck that has been having some fair success. Using Dragonkin Sorcerer, Rockbiter Weapon, and a 1 of Windfury as well as the above mentioned Fireguard Destroyer, plus a few other dragons, a 1 of Blackwing Corruptor and other Shaman staple spells and minions. Unsure of it's viability, but it hits like a truck.
I understand your position, but I also think it's a hypocritical viewpoint that people unfairly take on shaman. How is Reincarnate/Ancestral Spirit any more gimmicky than any other deck out there? Grim Patron is equally as gimmicky. Flamewalker Mage is also very gimmicky, if it doesn't draw either Flamewalker or either Sorc's Apprentice then it doesn't generate enough tempo to keep up and the deck utterly fails. Mech Mage, if it doesn't curve well or get Goblin Blastmage on curve, it usually fails. All of the so called "Meta" decks are very gimmicky in their own nature, but you don't see people saying their cute either...(well maybe you do but...)
The point is, every class has "unfair" mechanics, HS is no longer about building decks to counter your opponent, it's about building decks that are "unfair" in some way and building your deck around that mechanic. Value shaman did well because everyone was trying to build counter decks for the longest time. That's no longer the case. This is readily apparent with decks like Grim Patron. If you try to build a value deck against a Patron Warrior, you'll lose. Forcing someone to react to your own unfair mechanic is the only way to progress at this stage in Hearthstone's development. Just my own .02 added to the thoughts here.
I have been enjoying a heavy Deathrattle themed deck for my shaman since Naxxramas: Rivendare, Feugen, Stalagg, Cairne, Nerubian Eggs and Kel'Thuzad have given me hours of fun. Not anything remotely competitive, but, at least to me, this game is about collecting and fun.
Ditto! it is great fun when things go your way. The hard part is the early game (pretty typical for Shaman in general) but it is a lot of fun when it clicks. You don't even have to hit with everything to make it work. Sometimes just Reinc'ing a Piloted Shredder or Egg is enough to turn the game. I've won plenty of games without Rivendare or KT hitting the board. These type of decks have plenty of late-game threats that can dish out plenty of damage.
Heck, I've even used Reinc defensively to "reset" minions that have grown big: Scavenging Hyena, Frothing Berserker, Shade, etc. Not as good as killing them outright obviously, but better than taking double-digit damage from them too.
So recently I've been seeing topics where people believe shaman is not in a great place right now after BRM. Many people are disappointed that Lava Shock decks were short lived and didn't really influence the meta that much. In that vein of things, Fireguard Destroyer is an excellent card that has seen inclusion in many decks, but is just another 'value' card that doesn't define a deck.
Many people seem to consider Shaman's "unfair" mechanic to be value minions like Fire Elemental. And this may have been true back in vanilla HS. However with Naxx's release I think Shaman's unfair mechanic shifted towards Deathrattle decks. Is there a reason we don't see people abusing this more? In my opinion, deathrattle abuse with Ancestral Spirit and Reincarnate seems to be the best way to move forward with the class.
There's got to be a way to build a stable, consistent deck with deathrattle abuse (that includes some BRM cards) to bring Shaman to the forefront again; without relying on hail mary/gimmick cards like Baron Rivendare, Feugen, or Stalagg.
Any thoughts?
My thoughts are...
Nerf overload, buff hero power...
An interesting idea, I might play around with that later. I would like to see Feral Spirits overload get reduced by 1, or something changed with the hero power. I don't know about others but for me, I feel like in the current meta your asking for punishment if you play shaman. Tooo many hunters. But maybe I just don't know how to deal with em.. I can hear double kill command in the background sigh..
with all this huntard around i find myself needing knife juggler plus ur standard creeper and nerubian egg and all that swarmy wolf and stuff of DR. BOOM and running seagiant and neptulon with drakes and mana tide and only running a single lighnting storm and earthshock with 2 rockbiter for spell and a doomhammer as another alternative finisher.
pretty much a more swarmy deck to outswarm aggro even though unleash the hound is still a B**** its better than standard late shaman getting torn by mech anything and shockadin.
YES?
Deathrattle has always felt a little too 'cute' in the class. I run into these decks on occasion and the players always tends to focus on working gimmicks with Reincarnate rather than trying to beat their opponent.
Been tinkering with a dragon deck that has been having some fair success. Using Dragonkin Sorcerer, Rockbiter Weapon, and a 1 of Windfury as well as the above mentioned Fireguard Destroyer, plus a few other dragons, a 1 of Blackwing Corruptor and other Shaman staple spells and minions. Unsure of it's viability, but it hits like a truck.
I'm the best worst player.
To be honest, in my personal experience, Ancestral spirit and reincarnate are already "hail mary/gimmick" cards. Ancestral because it has so many requirements to be truly good:
1. You need to have a minion you really want to use it on
2. This minion needs to survive a turn
3. Your opponent needs to have a minion on board himself that can kill your minion.
In ANY other case, you run the risk of getting silenced/polymorphed/hexed etc., which will always end with a significant tempo loss you often don't recover from.
Reincarnate has mostly three cases were it's really great: Nerubian, Sylvanas, Kel. Otherwise it's quite meh, and two of those three are heavy late game combo that aren't even able to dish out lots of dmg, which is what you generally expect from truly strong late game combos. Sure, reincarnate is "flexible", but in nearly all of the cases were I use reincarnate to pseudo-silence something, I'd much prefered to have something else in hand that deals with the threat better.
Currently, using heavy taunt works quite good for me since it allows you to actually beat face hunter quite consistently. Also, Powermace is so stupidly strong & reliable that you almost have to use it. Otherwise, I'm torn between burst (rockbiter+doomhammer+al'akir) and value (Boom+Neptulon+Rag). The main problem with shaman, at least to me, seems to be that all spells and battlecries deal 3 dmg. Dealing with a token board is a huge pain in the ass, just as dealing with a simple spider tank is, if you have nothing on board.
I understand your position, but I also think it's a hypocritical viewpoint that people unfairly take on shaman. How is Reincarnate/Ancestral Spirit any more gimmicky than any other deck out there? Grim Patron is equally as gimmicky. Flamewalker Mage is also very gimmicky, if it doesn't draw either Flamewalker or either Sorc's Apprentice then it doesn't generate enough tempo to keep up and the deck utterly fails. Mech Mage, if it doesn't curve well or get Goblin Blastmage on curve, it usually fails. All of the so called "Meta" decks are very gimmicky in their own nature, but you don't see people saying their cute either...(well maybe you do but...)
The point is, every class has "unfair" mechanics, HS is no longer about building decks to counter your opponent, it's about building decks that are "unfair" in some way and building your deck around that mechanic. Value shaman did well because everyone was trying to build counter decks for the longest time. That's no longer the case. This is readily apparent with decks like Grim Patron. If you try to build a value deck against a Patron Warrior, you'll lose. Forcing someone to react to your own unfair mechanic is the only way to progress at this stage in Hearthstone's development.
Just my own .02 added to the thoughts here.
Ditto! it is great fun when things go your way. The hard part is the early game (pretty typical for Shaman in general) but it is a lot of fun when it clicks. You don't even have to hit with everything to make it work. Sometimes just Reinc'ing a Piloted Shredder or Egg is enough to turn the game. I've won plenty of games without Rivendare or KT hitting the board. These type of decks have plenty of late-game threats that can dish out plenty of damage.
Heck, I've even used Reinc defensively to "reset" minions that have grown big: Scavenging Hyena, Frothing Berserker, Shade, etc. Not as good as killing them outright obviously, but better than taking double-digit damage from them too.
This is the deck I've been using: