I just wanted to point out that I've updated the Crusher Shaman decklist for Globlins Vs. Gnomes. I tried a lot of new cards, but only two made the cut: Vitality Totem and Troggzor the Earthinator. Also, despite the nerf, Gadgetzan Auctioneer makes an appearance.
Vitality Totem: This card is great for the deck. A frequent problem, especially against Hunter and Mage, would be that you would stabilize, take control of the board with taunts, but then die to some direct damage spells. Now you have a way to take advantage of that board control and heal up. Sadly they are a bit too situational to add two I think, though an Antique Healbot is tempting. Earthen Ring Farseer has been replaced.
Troggzor: This will be controversial I think. This card was way overrated before release, but now has become a bit underrated I think. It doesn't belong in very many decks but it lines up very well for this deck, because A) It costs 7 mana, so it can be played after an Earth Elemental turn; B) It has a persisting effect, so it continues to effect your opponent while sitting behind a taunt or if it is resummoned by Ancestral Spirit or Kel'Thuzad; C) It sort of provides protection to your Earth Elementals from very dangerous spells. I definitely recommend trying it, but after that if you'd still rather have Dr. Boom, I would understand. Ragnaros the Firelord is coming out. 8 Mana conflicts with Earth Elementals and he's too good at shooting tokens. I'll still miss him though.
Auctioneer: Also controversial, but he probably should've been in here before the nerf. I'm finding that the control decks are getting even more focused on the late game, and so guaranteeing you have good answers into the last few turns is key. Sometimes you just get stuck with a load of spells in your hand, and Auctioneer can help convert them into other cards. It's another card that can be gamewinning sitting behind a taunt. A Wild Pyromancer comes out. While aggro is still popular, it's moving away from the style that Pyro really shined against, which is the deathrattles with small tokens. Wild Pyros can still single handedly win you games against Hunter, but I'm going to try to get by with just the one.
I also tried Arcane Nullifier X-21, Powermace, Dr. Boom, and a couple other GvG cards that I can't think of at the moment, but none made the cut. Finally I tried the often suggested Sludge Belchers, but the Azure Drakes are so strong in the deck giving you a decent body, a valuable card, and +1 spell power. Running both is just too many 5-drops. It did encourage me to experiment with Auctioneer though, which I've decided to keep.
Enjoy! Let me know how it goes and if you have suggestions. I'm still trying new cards and will update with any changes I decide to keep.
Thanks for posting an updated deck. Crusher shaman is hands down the most fun I've had playing shaman (my favorite redheaded stepchild of a class) in hearthstone. I was trying a midrange recently but it's just not as fun.
Your deck is a lot more balanced that the one I ran with slight tweaks, but for what it's worth I had a lot of fun swapping the ancestral healing and blademasters out to include 2 reincarnates, Rag and Boom. Reincarnate gives you an interesting amount of win conditions but is obviously more geared to trying to land womb combos late game.
Earth Elemental + Ancestral Spirit + Reincarnate = 2 elementals in one turn
Kelthuzad + Reincarnate = 2 Kelthuzad's in one turn (if two Kelthuzad's are active and a minion dies it will summon 2 of that minion)
Ragnaros + Ancestral Spirit = very limited on options to remove him outside of hex or poly
Anyway, just wanted to say I'm a fan of the deck and thanks again for posting an update!
I don't like Auctioneer here, it doesn't seem like he's going to do much (granted, I haven't tested it), but I think there are better options. Especially given that many of the spells in the deck are things that you want to play before turn 6+.
The value of Earth Ele + Ancestral Spirit can be overwhelming, certainly, but so can BGH on an Earth Ele. I feel like something along the lines of Feugen and Stalagg could provide similar value, without the potential for disaster. Are the taunts all that necessary? The deck already has Sen'jins, and Ancestral Healing, plus totems.
I think Mechanical Yeti's could be a good thing to consider. Strong body, fills out the 4-mana slot, decent target for both Ancestrals in a pinch, spare parts work well with Pyro, and Rusty Horn combos with TBK.
I don't like Auctioneer here, it doesn't seem like he's going to do much (granted, I haven't tested it), but I think there are better options. Especially given that many of the spells in the deck are things that you want to play before turn 6+.
The value of Earth Ele + Ancestral Spirit can be overwhelming, certainly, but so can BGH on an Earth Ele. I feel like something along the lines of Feugen and Stalagg could provide similar value, without the potential for disaster. Are the taunts all that necessary? The deck already has Sen'jins, and Ancestral Healing, plus totems.
I think Mechanical Yeti's could be a good thing to consider. Strong body, fills out the 4-mana slot, decent target for both Ancestrals in a pinch, spare parts work well with Pyro, and Rusty Horn combos with TBK.
While I may agree about the Gadgetzan Auctioneer being an odd inclusion, I disagree about including Mechanical Yeti. And I further disagree about using Ancestral Spirit on it, the last thing a shaman wants to do is give his opponent MORE spare parts. Especially if you're running totem cards that play from your hand. Remember that Reversing Switch instantly kills your totems and Emergency Coolant may stall your big guys and delay your win condition. And I believe the reason behind Crusher including so many taunts is for 2 main reasons:
A lot of taunts delays aggro enough for the Earth Elementals to make a difference.
Providing alternate taunt targets allows you to possibly bait out early silences as well as The Black Knight before you play your late game Earth Elementals. The last thing you want to do is play EE, and have it instantly removed by TBK.
I'm running my own version of the deck and there are some considerations and alterations I've made on my own. For starters I don't think the Lightning Bolt cards are all that great. I've replaced both with Crackle and while the RNG can sometimes bite you in the arse, I think it provides more overall utility since you rarely will be using the Bolts on turn 1. I also replaced GA with Harrison Jones, and one Azure Drake with Bloodmage Thalnos. My reasons are simply having early access to extra spellpower for matchups against aggro where I need the reach for whatever reason. Wild Pyro is an interesting consideration though.
I don't like Auctioneer here, it doesn't seem like he's going to do much (granted, I haven't tested it), but I think there are better options. Especially given that many of the spells in the deck are things that you want to play before turn 6+.
The value of Earth Ele + Ancestral Spirit can be overwhelming, certainly, but so can BGH on an Earth Ele. I feel like something along the lines of Feugen and Stalagg could provide similar value, without the potential for disaster. Are the taunts all that necessary? The deck already has Sen'jins, and Ancestral Healing, plus totems.
I think Mechanical Yeti's could be a good thing to consider. Strong body, fills out the 4-mana slot, decent target for both Ancestrals in a pinch, spare parts work well with Pyro, and Rusty Horn combos with TBK.
While I may agree about the Gadgetzan Auctioneer being an odd inclusion, I disagree about including Mechanical Yeti. And I further disagree about using Ancestral Spirit on it, the last thing a shaman wants to do is give his opponent MORE spare parts. Especially if you're running totem cards that play from your hand. Remember that Reversing Switch instantly kills your totems and Emergency Coolant may stall your big guys and delay your win condition. And I believe the reason behind Crusher including so many taunts is for 2 main reasons:
A lot of taunts delays aggro enough for the Earth Elementals to make a difference.
Providing alternate taunt targets allows you to possibly bait out early silences as well as The Black Knight before you play your late game Earth Elementals. The last thing you want to do is play EE, and have it instantly removed by TBK.
I'm running my own version of the deck and there are some considerations and alterations I've made on my own. For starters I don't think the Lightning Bolt cards are all that great. I've replaced both with Crackle and while the RNG can sometimes bite you in the arse, I think it provides more overall utility since you rarely will be using the Bolts on turn 1. I also replaced GA with Harrison Jones, and one Azure Drake with Bloodmage Thalnos. My reasons are simply having early access to extra spellpower for matchups against aggro where I need the reach for whatever reason. Wild Pyro is an interesting consideration though.
I hadn't even thought about giving opponents spare parts, that's a really good point. I hadn't tested those changes, I was simply brainstorming.
To be clear though, I wasn't advocating the removal of alternate Taunts, but suggesting the removal of Earth Elementals all together, which all but eliminated TBK issue, but still just brainstorming.
I still like the idea of Parts Synergy with the rest of the deck though. Perhaps the original list -GA +Toshley would be a welcome change.
I think I may be changing Gadgetzan Auctioneer to Neptulon. The four extra cards from outside your deck are very good in the extreme late game (which happens frequently), even if they are just murlocs.
The role of Crusher's deck is not to rely on reincarnate shenanigans, as fun as they are, and is less RNG dependant. Also, this is the deck that defined a whole new archetype of play for Shaman back when all we had was Bloodlust and Fire Elementals.
Also, and this is inconsequential at best, but I'm willing to trust his advice on deckbuilding (considering he's a multi legend player) over your advice...
I think I may be changing Gadgetzan Auctioneer to Neptulon. The four extra cards from outside your deck are very good in the extreme late game (which happens frequently), even if they are just murlocs.
I tend to agree. I didn't play your list, but I did play a list that is midrange and does not use Al'akir as a finisher. Everytime I fling Neptulon onto the board my opponent simply give up knowing that even if they are able to answer the Neptulon, they will still need more answers for the Murlocs. It's like Dr. Boom gone crazy.
*I really regret creating Al'akir. Somehow he never seems to work. Maybe I am using it wrong.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Are you not entertained?! ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!"
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity." - Maximus Decimus Meridius
I really like Antique Healbot in this style of Shaman. Having only one heal card in the deck means there are a substantial number of games where I lose just because I didn't draw it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Retired streamer and Hearthstone journalist @Shevvek
Dr. Boom instead of Troggzor is arguably better anyway, but I really like how Troggzor has functioned. Sylvanas works well with the deck but there are already a lot of 6s.
I would like to ask... if I really don't have Troggzor and The Black Knight, is there any substitute that will still work? Or are they simply irreplaceable?
I do have something like Dr. Boom, Sylvannas, Cairne, and Ragnaros, Alex', and Deathwing.
Also, if I were to craft Troggzor and The Black Knight, how useful are they in other decks?
Edit: Hm.... my apologies, this reply was created before I can read the latest replies...
I will add the following: Dr. Boom is a perfectly good replacement for Troggzor, who is pretty mediocre in most other decks. The Black Knight on the other hand can be quite useful in other decks and is harder to replace in this one (though Sylvanas is probably the best choice).
I went into GVG with pre-GVG Crusher Shaman and am playing now with some creation I made up by myself but seeing this post really reminded me of the fun I had playing Crusher Shaman. Definately gonna get back to playing it.
BGH is definitely bad for the deck, but the goal of the deck has always been to make it as resistant to hard removal as possible, BGH included. For example, if they use BGH on a Earth Elemental with Ancestral Spirit they effectively kill the 2 mana Ancestral Spirit rather than the 8 mana Earth Elemental. Still bad, but definitely not devastating. Now if they have a silence and BGH, then you're in bad shape, but the other cards in the deck are there to try to force out removal and silence earlier.
Greeting everyone,
I just wanted to point out that I've updated the Crusher Shaman decklist for Globlins Vs. Gnomes. I tried a lot of new cards, but only two made the cut: Vitality Totem and Troggzor the Earthinator. Also, despite the nerf, Gadgetzan Auctioneer makes an appearance.
Vitality Totem: This card is great for the deck. A frequent problem, especially against Hunter and Mage, would be that you would stabilize, take control of the board with taunts, but then die to some direct damage spells. Now you have a way to take advantage of that board control and heal up. Sadly they are a bit too situational to add two I think, though an Antique Healbot is tempting. Earthen Ring Farseer has been replaced.
Troggzor: This will be controversial I think. This card was way overrated before release, but now has become a bit underrated I think. It doesn't belong in very many decks but it lines up very well for this deck, because A) It costs 7 mana, so it can be played after an Earth Elemental turn; B) It has a persisting effect, so it continues to effect your opponent while sitting behind a taunt or if it is resummoned by Ancestral Spirit or Kel'Thuzad; C) It sort of provides protection to your Earth Elementals from very dangerous spells. I definitely recommend trying it, but after that if you'd still rather have Dr. Boom, I would understand. Ragnaros the Firelord is coming out. 8 Mana conflicts with Earth Elementals and he's too good at shooting tokens. I'll still miss him though.
Auctioneer: Also controversial, but he probably should've been in here before the nerf. I'm finding that the control decks are getting even more focused on the late game, and so guaranteeing you have good answers into the last few turns is key. Sometimes you just get stuck with a load of spells in your hand, and Auctioneer can help convert them into other cards. It's another card that can be gamewinning sitting behind a taunt. A Wild Pyromancer comes out. While aggro is still popular, it's moving away from the style that Pyro really shined against, which is the deathrattles with small tokens. Wild Pyros can still single handedly win you games against Hunter, but I'm going to try to get by with just the one.
I also tried Arcane Nullifier X-21, Powermace, Dr. Boom, and a couple other GvG cards that I can't think of at the moment, but none made the cut. Finally I tried the often suggested Sludge Belchers, but the Azure Drakes are so strong in the deck giving you a decent body, a valuable card, and +1 spell power. Running both is just too many 5-drops. It did encourage me to experiment with Auctioneer though, which I've decided to keep.
Enjoy! Let me know how it goes and if you have suggestions. I'm still trying new cards and will update with any changes I decide to keep.
Twitch: CrusherHS, Youtube Channel: Hearthstone Crusher
Season 2, 12: Divine Tempo Paladin (Peak NA Legend Rank: 48, 80)
Season 3: Ancestral Control Shaman (Peak NA Legend Rank: 777)
Season 6: Handmage (Peak NA Legend Rank: 301)
Season 7: Deathrattle Aggro Paladin (Peak NA Legend Rank: 135)
Season 10: Deathrattle Tempo Druid (Peak NA Legend Rank: 335)
Season 15: Inner Fire Combo Priest (Peak NA Legend Rank: 1315)
Season 22: Silent Hybrid Druid (Peak NA Legend Rank: 138)
and more...
Oh also I've been putting off testing Neputlon, because I'd need to craft him, but I finally caved and made him. Should be fun if nothing else.
Twitch: CrusherHS, Youtube Channel: Hearthstone Crusher
Season 2, 12: Divine Tempo Paladin (Peak NA Legend Rank: 48, 80)
Season 3: Ancestral Control Shaman (Peak NA Legend Rank: 777)
Season 6: Handmage (Peak NA Legend Rank: 301)
Season 7: Deathrattle Aggro Paladin (Peak NA Legend Rank: 135)
Season 10: Deathrattle Tempo Druid (Peak NA Legend Rank: 335)
Season 15: Inner Fire Combo Priest (Peak NA Legend Rank: 1315)
Season 22: Silent Hybrid Druid (Peak NA Legend Rank: 138)
and more...
Thanks for posting an updated deck. Crusher shaman is hands down the most fun I've had playing shaman (my favorite redheaded stepchild of a class) in hearthstone. I was trying a midrange recently but it's just not as fun.
Your deck is a lot more balanced that the one I ran with slight tweaks, but for what it's worth I had a lot of fun swapping the ancestral healing and blademasters out to include 2 reincarnates, Rag and Boom. Reincarnate gives you an interesting amount of win conditions but is obviously more geared to trying to land womb combos late game.
Earth Elemental + Ancestral Spirit + Reincarnate = 2 elementals in one turn
Kelthuzad + Reincarnate = 2 Kelthuzad's in one turn (if two Kelthuzad's are active and a minion dies it will summon 2 of that minion)
Ragnaros + Ancestral Spirit = very limited on options to remove him outside of hex or poly
Anyway, just wanted to say I'm a fan of the deck and thanks again for posting an update!
I don't like Auctioneer here, it doesn't seem like he's going to do much (granted, I haven't tested it), but I think there are better options. Especially given that many of the spells in the deck are things that you want to play before turn 6+.
The value of Earth Ele + Ancestral Spirit can be overwhelming, certainly, but so can BGH on an Earth Ele. I feel like something along the lines of Feugen and Stalagg could provide similar value, without the potential for disaster. Are the taunts all that necessary? The deck already has Sen'jins, and Ancestral Healing, plus totems.
I think Mechanical Yeti's could be a good thing to consider. Strong body, fills out the 4-mana slot, decent target for both Ancestrals in a pinch, spare parts work well with Pyro, and Rusty Horn combos with TBK.
Something like this maybe?
While I may agree about the Gadgetzan Auctioneer being an odd inclusion, I disagree about including Mechanical Yeti. And I further disagree about using Ancestral Spirit on it, the last thing a shaman wants to do is give his opponent MORE spare parts. Especially if you're running totem cards that play from your hand. Remember that Reversing Switch instantly kills your totems and Emergency Coolant may stall your big guys and delay your win condition. And I believe the reason behind Crusher including so many taunts is for 2 main reasons:
I'm running my own version of the deck and there are some considerations and alterations I've made on my own. For starters I don't think the Lightning Bolt cards are all that great. I've replaced both with Crackle and while the RNG can sometimes bite you in the arse, I think it provides more overall utility since you rarely will be using the Bolts on turn 1. I also replaced GA with Harrison Jones, and one Azure Drake with Bloodmage Thalnos. My reasons are simply having early access to extra spellpower for matchups against aggro where I need the reach for whatever reason. Wild Pyro is an interesting consideration though.
Interesting, never thought about the GA. I can see it working late game. It would suck to pull it early, though. I will give this new version a try.
I hadn't even thought about giving opponents spare parts, that's a really good point. I hadn't tested those changes, I was simply brainstorming.
To be clear though, I wasn't advocating the removal of alternate Taunts, but suggesting the removal of Earth Elementals all together, which all but eliminated TBK issue, but still just brainstorming.
I still like the idea of Parts Synergy with the rest of the deck though. Perhaps the original list -GA +Toshley would be a welcome change.
I think I may be changing Gadgetzan Auctioneer to Neptulon. The four extra cards from outside your deck are very good in the extreme late game (which happens frequently), even if they are just murlocs.
Twitch: CrusherHS, Youtube Channel: Hearthstone Crusher
Season 2, 12: Divine Tempo Paladin (Peak NA Legend Rank: 48, 80)
Season 3: Ancestral Control Shaman (Peak NA Legend Rank: 777)
Season 6: Handmage (Peak NA Legend Rank: 301)
Season 7: Deathrattle Aggro Paladin (Peak NA Legend Rank: 135)
Season 10: Deathrattle Tempo Druid (Peak NA Legend Rank: 335)
Season 15: Inner Fire Combo Priest (Peak NA Legend Rank: 1315)
Season 22: Silent Hybrid Druid (Peak NA Legend Rank: 138)
and more...
That deck needs to remove some crap and insert Sylvanas Windrunner and Reincarnate to enjoy more and work better.
The role of Crusher's deck is not to rely on reincarnate shenanigans, as fun as they are, and is less RNG dependant. Also, this is the deck that defined a whole new archetype of play for Shaman back when all we had was Bloodlust and Fire Elementals.
Also, and this is inconsequential at best, but I'm willing to trust his advice on deckbuilding (considering he's a multi legend player) over your advice...
I tend to agree. I didn't play your list, but I did play a list that is midrange and does not use Al'akir as a finisher. Everytime I fling Neptulon onto the board my opponent simply give up knowing that even if they are able to answer the Neptulon, they will still need more answers for the Murlocs. It's like Dr. Boom gone crazy.
*I really regret creating Al'akir. Somehow he never seems to work. Maybe I am using it wrong.
"Are you not entertained?! ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!"
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity." - Maximus Decimus Meridius
I am also experimenting with an Antique Healbot in place of an Azure Drake, since Neptulon kind of makes up for the loss in card draw.
Twitch: CrusherHS, Youtube Channel: Hearthstone Crusher
Season 2, 12: Divine Tempo Paladin (Peak NA Legend Rank: 48, 80)
Season 3: Ancestral Control Shaman (Peak NA Legend Rank: 777)
Season 6: Handmage (Peak NA Legend Rank: 301)
Season 7: Deathrattle Aggro Paladin (Peak NA Legend Rank: 135)
Season 10: Deathrattle Tempo Druid (Peak NA Legend Rank: 335)
Season 15: Inner Fire Combo Priest (Peak NA Legend Rank: 1315)
Season 22: Silent Hybrid Druid (Peak NA Legend Rank: 138)
and more...
I really like Antique Healbot in this style of Shaman. Having only one heal card in the deck means there are a substantial number of games where I lose just because I didn't draw it.
Retired streamer and Hearthstone journalist @Shevvek
Dr. Boom instead of Troggzor is arguably better anyway, but I really like how Troggzor has functioned. Sylvanas works well with the deck but there are already a lot of 6s.
Twitch: CrusherHS, Youtube Channel: Hearthstone Crusher
Season 2, 12: Divine Tempo Paladin (Peak NA Legend Rank: 48, 80)
Season 3: Ancestral Control Shaman (Peak NA Legend Rank: 777)
Season 6: Handmage (Peak NA Legend Rank: 301)
Season 7: Deathrattle Aggro Paladin (Peak NA Legend Rank: 135)
Season 10: Deathrattle Tempo Druid (Peak NA Legend Rank: 335)
Season 15: Inner Fire Combo Priest (Peak NA Legend Rank: 1315)
Season 22: Silent Hybrid Druid (Peak NA Legend Rank: 138)
and more...
I would like to ask... if I really don't have Troggzor and The Black Knight, is there any substitute that will still work? Or are they simply irreplaceable?
I do have something like Dr. Boom, Sylvannas, Cairne, and Ragnaros, Alex', and Deathwing.
Also, if I were to craft Troggzor and The Black Knight, how useful are they in other decks?
Edit: Hm.... my apologies, this reply was created before I can read the latest replies...
"Are you not entertained?! ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!"
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity." - Maximus Decimus Meridius
I will add the following: Dr. Boom is a perfectly good replacement for Troggzor, who is pretty mediocre in most other decks. The Black Knight on the other hand can be quite useful in other decks and is harder to replace in this one (though Sylvanas is probably the best choice).
Twitch: CrusherHS, Youtube Channel: Hearthstone Crusher
Season 2, 12: Divine Tempo Paladin (Peak NA Legend Rank: 48, 80)
Season 3: Ancestral Control Shaman (Peak NA Legend Rank: 777)
Season 6: Handmage (Peak NA Legend Rank: 301)
Season 7: Deathrattle Aggro Paladin (Peak NA Legend Rank: 135)
Season 10: Deathrattle Tempo Druid (Peak NA Legend Rank: 335)
Season 15: Inner Fire Combo Priest (Peak NA Legend Rank: 1315)
Season 22: Silent Hybrid Druid (Peak NA Legend Rank: 138)
and more...
I went into GVG with pre-GVG Crusher Shaman and am playing now with some creation I made up by myself but seeing this post really reminded me of the fun I had playing Crusher Shaman. Definately gonna get back to playing it.
Ancestral Healing is a good proc for Wild Pyromancer. If things get too aggressive, a second wild pyro can be good.
Twitch: CrusherHS, Youtube Channel: Hearthstone Crusher
Season 2, 12: Divine Tempo Paladin (Peak NA Legend Rank: 48, 80)
Season 3: Ancestral Control Shaman (Peak NA Legend Rank: 777)
Season 6: Handmage (Peak NA Legend Rank: 301)
Season 7: Deathrattle Aggro Paladin (Peak NA Legend Rank: 135)
Season 10: Deathrattle Tempo Druid (Peak NA Legend Rank: 335)
Season 15: Inner Fire Combo Priest (Peak NA Legend Rank: 1315)
Season 22: Silent Hybrid Druid (Peak NA Legend Rank: 138)
and more...
BGH is definitely bad for the deck, but the goal of the deck has always been to make it as resistant to hard removal as possible, BGH included. For example, if they use BGH on a Earth Elemental with Ancestral Spirit they effectively kill the 2 mana Ancestral Spirit rather than the 8 mana Earth Elemental. Still bad, but definitely not devastating. Now if they have a silence and BGH, then you're in bad shape, but the other cards in the deck are there to try to force out removal and silence earlier.
Twitch: CrusherHS, Youtube Channel: Hearthstone Crusher
Season 2, 12: Divine Tempo Paladin (Peak NA Legend Rank: 48, 80)
Season 3: Ancestral Control Shaman (Peak NA Legend Rank: 777)
Season 6: Handmage (Peak NA Legend Rank: 301)
Season 7: Deathrattle Aggro Paladin (Peak NA Legend Rank: 135)
Season 10: Deathrattle Tempo Druid (Peak NA Legend Rank: 335)
Season 15: Inner Fire Combo Priest (Peak NA Legend Rank: 1315)
Season 22: Silent Hybrid Druid (Peak NA Legend Rank: 138)
and more...
how does this deck fare agains the popular decks of this season meta - Mech Mage, huntard (mostly face), and oil rogue ?
(sorry for any missssssspels - not a native english speaker + fat fingers)