I was wondering. Weapons kind of fell out of flavor in shaman decks, yet they are so good and all other classes that can use a weapon play at least 2. I'm not strictly talking about Doomhammer here, but early game weapons that help board control like Stormforged Axe and Powermace rarely see play in the current decks.
It's not like they give immense Harrison Jones value (you usually use 1 charge right away) and the deathrattle on Powermace could still trigger on a minion.
We Mace.... usually at least once to the face. Mech shaman is probably the most popular shaman deck at the moment and it runs 2 power maces.
Mace is just ridiculously better than Axe with how many 3 health early drops see play right now. Doomhammer is the Harrison problem. Giving 6-8 cards to your opponent feels horrible and repeated use of face for control hurts when 4+ drops hit the field.
I agree with Troglodyte's assessment of the situation.
Mech Shaman is pretty popular, and overall Powermace is an excellent card. It's essentially the shaman equivalent of Fiery War Axe for one more mana. As he stated, 3 health early drops were a pain which is why Stormforged Axe fell out of favor. Also the 1 (Overload) on Stormforged Axe makes it an awkward early play since it stalls your next turn. I mean, if you want to stall your opponent for 2 damage, better to just play Feral Spirit.
I disagree slightly on the Harrison Jones meta. Harrison IS popular which is why some classes have stopped using weapons as much; however Harrison on Doomhammeris not as common as you think. Most of the time it's 6 cards (not 8) since your opponent will use 2 charges when he plays it. Secondly, I've come across situations where I don't want to fatigue or mill myself so drawing 6 cards would be bad, many times I've had to LET my opponent use more charges on their Doomhammer before I Jones'd it so I didn't burn my own cards.
And lastly, a lot of our popular overload spells have gone away, favored by more consistent and less unreliable spells to be replaced with minions who have deathrattles. Also, since those overload cards are gone, we are also not running Unbound Elemental anymore as a side effect. All in all, the meta drastically shifted. Hell, I don't even run Fire Elementalsin my deck anymore (though I do miss them sometimes).
The aggro meta doesn't allow overload because if we did overload ourselves, we wound find ourselves on the back foot playing defensively the entire game. Only a few decks even run Spirit Wolves anymore, and that's purely for stalling, not for any synergy.
To Surmise the situation: Powermace is the best weapon now, even if you don't run any mechs. Doomhammeris still a decent card that can be combo'd with Rockbiter Weapon or used alone for some extra face damage. Stormforged Axe was never popular to begin with, but doesn't do enough and we take too much face damage trying to wedge in 6 damage spread over 3 turns.
I still think Stormforged Axe could have a role in board control (just think about the paladin matchup, and how many 1/1 tokens you want to remove). Also useful to bash in divine shields, webspinners, clockwork gnomes, minions you wouldn't really use a 3 attack charge but you kinda have to because they still have to be removed.
That annoying 1/2 slime from belchers, also a clean kill on the 3/5 body with bolt or rockbiter isnt too bad. I agree that the 3 attack on powermace is a first of his kind for shaman, but imo there are still loads of stuff that is enough to poke for 2.
Where to fit an axe i have no idea though. Personally i like double Powermace + Doomhammer, as usually Powermace is enough to bait Harrison, then you pop your Doomhammer and they're super sad.
I've seen several lists that don't run any weapons at all, that's what's really weird. These decks could really use an axe for when you need to poke 1/1s, 2/1s and 3/2s. I mean your class can use a weapon... you don't have to commit to doomhammer or powermace, but an axe to poke here and there would benefit many non-mech lists.
It definitely could, if the meta shifted away from 3 health minions. However, with the plethora of 3 health minions around (Mechwarper, Shredders, Antique Healbot, etc) I just don't find it a good fit for the time being.
Axe has overload and is a bit of a tempo loss. Creatures tend to be a bit tougher in GvG and there are more 3 toughness guys going around. Either way it's 6 damage between those 2 and the mace has a nice deathrattle.
Harrison is a calculated risk on doomhammer. I've ended more games with Doomhammer+Rockbiter than I have lost to a Harrison'd Doomhammer. My deck usually needs to close out mid-game vs control or it loses so I don't mind dropping it early as a risk (depending on how much my opponent has drawn) to clear a few trouble minions.
If we get more overload synergy cards like Unbound Elemental than I think axe can make a comeback, but for now it's inferior.
Yea I tried the axe for a while, it just isn't good. The difference between 2 and 3 health is huge, especially when you consider that not only does this card effectively cost 3 mana, but it can't kill a mechwarper, an undertaker coin deathrattle, or a even a voidwalker. So like, why play it? Especially with the addition of powermace. Powermace on the other hand is pretty popular right now unless I'm mistaken. Since most shamans already played harvest golem, it wasn't difficult to build decks that took advantage of the mace.
Finally doomhammer will come back, ever since naxx harrison became a big part of the meta, but that didn't stop shamans from playing doomhammer so I don't see any reason why they'd stop now. Like Trollbert above me put it, I've won more games with doomhammer than I've lost to Harrison so I'm certain when the initial fear has cleared shamans will go back to the hammer.
Powermace is amazing enough to run 2 in a mech shaman. A turn 3 powermace, hit, into a turn 4 arcane nullifier, hit, is the dream and has completely wrecked enough face hunters and zoo players that I can't see myself playing without it now.
Look at it like this, Powermace is 6 dmg for 3 mana plus a 2/2 buff on a mech. That is absurd value. Heck, it even turns a turn 5 antique healbot into a great play because you heal for 8, dealt 6 dmg AND have a 5/5 body on the board.
I tried the nullifiers for a while, truth is they're kinda too buff reliant. You either have to place a totem next to them, or give them a powermace deathrattle, otherwise they just don't trade with anything.
They're clearly good against spells but against board flood aggro they do pretty much nothing. I wish there were more 2 mana mechs that are decent, as the 3 mana slot is so damn busy, and that's a very big problem. Also the 5 mana slot kind of sucks for mechs.
The only option is to play a bunch of 1 costs (spells and minions) so you don't waste 1 mana on turn 2, or on turn 4 if you can't get a 4 drop mech.
That is why you only run one Nullifier. You have plenty of other mechs to buff with your powermace. I try to mulligan hard for this weapon in almost all matchups now.
Edit: Also, "wasting mana" is not really a horrible thing in hearthstone. If you have a better play, you play it, regardless of the mana cost you are left with at the end. There is absolutley nothing wrong with dropping a spider tank on turn 4 and buffing it up to 5/6 OR playing a totem and a annoy-o-tron and buffing that. Nullifier is the dream, but you don't build decks around "the dream." But it's a strong enough dream turn that it can win games, which is what dream turns should be.
Wow, reading those last sentences makes me sound like a lunatic.
I was wondering. Weapons kind of fell out of flavor in shaman decks, yet they are so good and all other classes that can use a weapon play at least 2. I'm not strictly talking about Doomhammer here, but early game weapons that help board control like Stormforged Axe and Powermace rarely see play in the current decks.
It's not like they give immense Harrison Jones value (you usually use 1 charge right away) and the deathrattle on Powermace could still trigger on a minion.
So why we no axe?
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
We Mace.... usually at least once to the face. Mech shaman is probably the most popular shaman deck at the moment and it runs 2 power maces.
Mace is just ridiculously better than Axe with how many 3 health early drops see play right now. Doomhammer is the Harrison problem. Giving 6-8 cards to your opponent feels horrible and repeated use of face for control hurts when 4+ drops hit the field.
I agree with Troglodyte's assessment of the situation.
Mech Shaman is pretty popular, and overall Powermace is an excellent card. It's essentially the shaman equivalent of Fiery War Axe for one more mana. As he stated, 3 health early drops were a pain which is why Stormforged Axe fell out of favor. Also the 1 (Overload) on Stormforged Axe makes it an awkward early play since it stalls your next turn. I mean, if you want to stall your opponent for 2 damage, better to just play Feral Spirit.
I disagree slightly on the Harrison Jones meta. Harrison IS popular which is why some classes have stopped using weapons as much; however Harrison on Doomhammeris not as common as you think. Most of the time it's 6 cards (not 8) since your opponent will use 2 charges when he plays it. Secondly, I've come across situations where I don't want to fatigue or mill myself so drawing 6 cards would be bad, many times I've had to LET my opponent use more charges on their Doomhammer before I Jones'd it so I didn't burn my own cards.
And lastly, a lot of our popular overload spells have gone away, favored by more consistent and less unreliable spells to be replaced with minions who have deathrattles. Also, since those overload cards are gone, we are also not running Unbound Elemental anymore as a side effect. All in all, the meta drastically shifted. Hell, I don't even run Fire Elementalsin my deck anymore (though I do miss them sometimes).
The aggro meta doesn't allow overload because if we did overload ourselves, we wound find ourselves on the back foot playing defensively the entire game. Only a few decks even run Spirit Wolves anymore, and that's purely for stalling, not for any synergy.
To Surmise the situation: Powermace is the best weapon now, even if you don't run any mechs. Doomhammeris still a decent card that can be combo'd with Rockbiter Weapon or used alone for some extra face damage. Stormforged Axe was never popular to begin with, but doesn't do enough and we take too much face damage trying to wedge in 6 damage spread over 3 turns.
I still think Stormforged Axe could have a role in board control (just think about the paladin matchup, and how many 1/1 tokens you want to remove). Also useful to bash in divine shields, webspinners, clockwork gnomes, minions you wouldn't really use a 3 attack charge but you kinda have to because they still have to be removed.
That annoying 1/2 slime from belchers, also a clean kill on the 3/5 body with bolt or rockbiter isnt too bad. I agree that the 3 attack on powermace is a first of his kind for shaman, but imo there are still loads of stuff that is enough to poke for 2.
Where to fit an axe i have no idea though. Personally i like double Powermace + Doomhammer, as usually Powermace is enough to bait Harrison, then you pop your Doomhammer and they're super sad.
I've seen several lists that don't run any weapons at all, that's what's really weird. These decks could really use an axe for when you need to poke 1/1s, 2/1s and 3/2s. I mean your class can use a weapon... you don't have to commit to doomhammer or powermace, but an axe to poke here and there would benefit many non-mech lists.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
It definitely could, if the meta shifted away from 3 health minions. However, with the plethora of 3 health minions around (Mechwarper, Shredders, Antique Healbot, etc) I just don't find it a good fit for the time being.
Axe has overload and is a bit of a tempo loss. Creatures tend to be a bit tougher in GvG and there are more 3 toughness guys going around. Either way it's 6 damage between those 2 and the mace has a nice deathrattle.
Harrison is a calculated risk on doomhammer. I've ended more games with Doomhammer+Rockbiter than I have lost to a Harrison'd Doomhammer. My deck usually needs to close out mid-game vs control or it loses so I don't mind dropping it early as a risk (depending on how much my opponent has drawn) to clear a few trouble minions.
If we get more overload synergy cards like Unbound Elemental than I think axe can make a comeback, but for now it's inferior.
Yea I tried the axe for a while, it just isn't good. The difference between 2 and 3 health is huge, especially when you consider that not only does this card effectively cost 3 mana, but it can't kill a mechwarper, an undertaker coin deathrattle, or a even a voidwalker. So like, why play it? Especially with the addition of powermace. Powermace on the other hand is pretty popular right now unless I'm mistaken. Since most shamans already played harvest golem, it wasn't difficult to build decks that took advantage of the mace.
Finally doomhammer will come back, ever since naxx harrison became a big part of the meta, but that didn't stop shamans from playing doomhammer so I don't see any reason why they'd stop now. Like Trollbert above me put it, I've won more games with doomhammer than I've lost to Harrison so I'm certain when the initial fear has cleared shamans will go back to the hammer.
Powermace is amazing enough to run 2 in a mech shaman. A turn 3 powermace, hit, into a turn 4 arcane nullifier, hit, is the dream and has completely wrecked enough face hunters and zoo players that I can't see myself playing without it now.
Look at it like this, Powermace is 6 dmg for 3 mana plus a 2/2 buff on a mech. That is absurd value. Heck, it even turns a turn 5 antique healbot into a great play because you heal for 8, dealt 6 dmg AND have a 5/5 body on the board.
I tried the nullifiers for a while, truth is they're kinda too buff reliant. You either have to place a totem next to them, or give them a powermace deathrattle, otherwise they just don't trade with anything.
They're clearly good against spells but against board flood aggro they do pretty much nothing. I wish there were more 2 mana mechs that are decent, as the 3 mana slot is so damn busy, and that's a very big problem. Also the 5 mana slot kind of sucks for mechs.
The only option is to play a bunch of 1 costs (spells and minions) so you don't waste 1 mana on turn 2, or on turn 4 if you can't get a 4 drop mech.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
That is why you only run one Nullifier. You have plenty of other mechs to buff with your powermace. I try to mulligan hard for this weapon in almost all matchups now.
Edit: Also, "wasting mana" is not really a horrible thing in hearthstone. If you have a better play, you play it, regardless of the mana cost you are left with at the end. There is absolutley nothing wrong with dropping a spider tank on turn 4 and buffing it up to 5/6 OR playing a totem and a annoy-o-tron and buffing that. Nullifier is the dream, but you don't build decks around "the dream." But it's a strong enough dream turn that it can win games, which is what dream turns should be.
Wow, reading those last sentences makes me sound like a lunatic.