Shaman has absolutely no comeback when it loses the board. It has no card that can turn the tables as other classes do.
uhh excuse me but Tidal Wave? Carnival Clown into Revolve?? hello? granted i haven't played with the new cards yet but even before the mini set i was having a positive winrate with a clown control shaman list at diamond rank so i would assume it had only gotten better with the dungeoneer and other cards, shaman is in a perfect spot right now in my honest opinion.
also no one is running ooze bro, and no one ever will. they weren't running it for poison rogue they wont with doomhammer
I guess it's still awful because shaman has 2 direct draw for doomhammer, but you can't directly draw 2 oozes in a row, or one at least. And indeed you will suck with this ooze to everyone else, beginning from rattle dh, ending casual rush/big warrior, druid and hunter.
Shaman has absolutely no comeback when it loses the board. It has no card that can turn the tables as other classes do.
uhh excuse me but Tidal Wave? Carnival Clown into Revolve?? hello? granted i haven't played with the new cards yet but even before the mini set i was having a positive winrate with a clown control shaman list at diamond rank so i would assume it had only gotten better with the dungeoneer and other cards, shaman is in a perfect spot right now in my honest opinion.
Oh please show me a control deck that does not get wrecked on turn 6
also no one is running ooze bro, and no one ever will. they weren't running it for poison rogue they wont with doomhammer
I guess it's still awful because shaman has 2 direct draw for doomhammer, but you can't directly draw 2 oozes in a row, or one at least. And indeed you will suck with this ooze to everyone else, beginning from rattle dh, ending casual rush/big warrior, druid and hunter.
Yes but playing doomhammer is a lot of investement in mana: 5+2. Destroying even one weapon is already a big deal. It's basically half of the deck gameplay
also no one is running ooze bro, and no one ever will. they weren't running it for poison rogue they wont with doomhammer
I guess it's still awful because shaman has 2 direct draw for doomhammer, but you can't directly draw 2 oozes in a row, or one at least. And indeed you will suck with this ooze to everyone else, beginning from rattle dh, ending casual rush/big warrior, druid and hunter.
True but Doomhammer can be played on 5th turn onwards and that gives you some time to find it. Even one ooze makes a difference, Shaman is overloaded after playing Doomhammer and that buys you more time, all for 2 mana. Other, strongest decks are also running some weapons, Warrior, DH, occasional Rogue and Paladin. Ooze has won me more games in my climb over the past few days than I can count. It's a mandatory addition IMHO.
I don't want to be THAT guy, but Shaman has 2nd highest winrate out of all classes in Standard with a 0.4% difference from the 1st place. I myself have had around 80% winrate with Elemental Shaman since the release of the mini set. I usually understand rant posts, but this one isn't even true lol.
Shaman is good and Doom Shaman is probably better than Elemental Shaman, however I cannot imagine a deck, other than OTK Demon Hunter perhaps, that wants to waste a deck slot to run Ooze in the current meta
Shaman is good and Doom Shaman is probably better than Elemental Shaman, however I cannot imagine a deck, other than OTK Demon Hunter perhaps, that wants to waste a deck slot to run Ooze in the current meta
There's def a few other decks. Priest could squeeze one or two in if they find themselves not stabilizing in the MU fast enough. Miracle Rogue could drop Cult Neophyte if it wants to tech for Shaman over Paladin/Druid/Mage. But yeah, most decks cant afford a card that's dead weight in a bunch of matchups and doesn't directly synergize with their gameplan.
Shaman is good and Doom Shaman is probably better than Elemental Shaman, however I cannot imagine a deck, other than OTK Demon Hunter perhaps, that wants to waste a deck slot to run Ooze in the current meta
There's def a few other decks. Priest could squeeze one or two in if they find themselves not stabilizing in the MU fast enough. Miracle Rogue could drop Cult Neophyte if it wants to tech for Shaman over Paladin/Druid/Mage. But yeah, most decks cant afford a card that's dead weight in a bunch of matchups and doesn't directly synergize with their gameplan.
>dead weight in a bunch of matchups
Let's look at the decks with over 10k plays right now.
Face Hunter: runs Rinling
Ele sham: runs double Whack a Gnoll
Spellmage: No weap
Spell Druid: No weap
Deathrattle DH: killing Tuskpiercer isnt really useful but they run Felsteel too
Ele sham V2: see above
Miracle Rogue: Mediocre since they dont run weap buffs, but still usable
Secret Pally: Secret sword and Hammer of the Naaru
Aggro Sham: Doomhammer
Spellmage v2: no weap
Ele sham v3: Gnoll Hammer again
So by adding the total number of games, and subtracting the ones where it's useless, we get 72% of matchups where it has some use, and adjusting for the fact that it's only partly useful against Hunter or Miracle Rogue, that makes it useful about 60% of the time. That's about the same as Cult Neophyte since Deathrattle DH, Ele Sham, and Secret Pally arent very bothered by 1 extra spell mana
We must be playing a completely different meta because I haven't seen any Spell Mages or any Paladins in days. Deathrattle DH, Face Hunter, Doom and Elemental Shaman, Control Priests, Rush Warriors, Token Druids and some Miracle Rogues, these are the main decks I see.
Ooze can only really shine vs Doomhammer. The problem with Ooze is that it is a 2-drop that you can't really play on turn 2. Instead, if you draw it early (or keep it in mulligan) it is a dead card in your hand until your opponent equips a weapon. For example let's say you play vs Face Hunter. Do you keep it in your mulligan and hold it hoping they play the Rifle on t4 and you can drop Ooze on t5 to deny them a 2nd secret? Or do you mulligan it away and hope to draw it when/if you need it? If you topdeck it on t2 do you play it on curve or keep it? Surviving vs Face Hunter is all about denying them an overwhelming early tempo and Ooze on t2 is simply not good enough tempo, while Ooze as a keep in your hand early is even worse tempo. Same principle applies for a matchup against Rush Warrior.
So you say Ooze is useful 60% of the time, I say it is an awkward card to have in your deck that leads to bad tempo plays 50-55% of the time and only really useful vs Doomhammer
Shaman is good and Doom Shaman is probably better than Elemental Shaman, however I cannot imagine a deck, other than OTK Demon Hunter perhaps, that wants to waste a deck slot to run Ooze in the current meta
There's def a few other decks. Priest could squeeze one or two in if they find themselves not stabilizing in the MU fast enough. Miracle Rogue could drop Cult Neophyte if it wants to tech for Shaman over Paladin/Druid/Mage. But yeah, most decks cant afford a card that's dead weight in a bunch of matchups and doesn't directly synergize with their gameplan.
>dead weight in a bunch of matchups
Let's look at the decks with over 10k plays right now.
Face Hunter: runs Rinling
Ele sham: runs double Whack a Gnoll
Spellmage: No weap
Spell Druid: No weap
Deathrattle DH: killing Tuskpiercer isnt really useful but they run Felsteel too
Ele sham V2: see above
Miracle Rogue: Mediocre since they dont run weap buffs, but still usable
Secret Pally: Secret sword and Hammer of the Naaru
Aggro Sham: Doomhammer
Spellmage v2: no weap
Ele sham v3: Gnoll Hammer again
So by adding the total number of games, and subtracting the ones where it's useless, we get 72% of matchups where it has some use, and adjusting for the fact that it's only partly useful against Hunter or Miracle Rogue, that makes it useful about 60% of the time. That's about the same as Cult Neophyte since Deathrattle DH, Ele Sham, and Secret Pally arent very bothered by 1 extra spell mana
Just because its usable in a matchup doesn't mean its useful in a matchup.
Ie: Against a face hunter you Ooze their Rinling's and then they kill you with a Rhino or Piercing Shot because you just put a 3/2 body on board. Oozing a Gnoll Hammer doesn't stop their now buffed minion from dominating the board leading to them winning the game. Oozing a Hammer of the Naaru and leaving up a 6/6 Elemental isn't gonna help much.
Please note that I said "dead weight", not "dead". Whether or not it can hit a weapon is unimportant. The important part is if hitting that weapon helps put you in a position to win the game. Also, keep in mind that to put an Ooze in you have to take something out. Don't just look at what Ooze adds when it hits. Look at what Ooze costs. A lot of decks (Rush Warrior, DR DH being prime examples) are so dense with synergies that they can't afford something that doesn't further their gameplan.
It is.
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Its not. In a few days, people will catch on and tech in ooze and completely wreck your win condition with a 2 drop.
uhh excuse me but Tidal Wave? Carnival Clown into Revolve?? hello? granted i haven't played with the new cards yet but even before the mini set i was having a positive winrate with a clown control shaman list at diamond rank so i would assume it had only gotten better with the dungeoneer and other cards, shaman is in a perfect spot right now in my honest opinion.
also no one is running ooze bro, and no one ever will. they weren't running it for poison rogue they wont with doomhammer
I guess it's still awful because shaman has 2 direct draw for doomhammer, but you can't directly draw 2 oozes in a row, or one at least. And indeed you will suck with this ooze to everyone else, beginning from rattle dh, ending casual rush/big warrior, druid and hunter.
Oh please show me a control deck that does not get wrecked on turn 6
Yes but playing doomhammer is a lot of investement in mana: 5+2. Destroying even one weapon is already a big deal. It's basically half of the deck gameplay
True but Doomhammer can be played on 5th turn onwards and that gives you some time to find it. Even one ooze makes a difference, Shaman is overloaded after playing Doomhammer and that buys you more time, all for 2 mana. Other, strongest decks are also running some weapons, Warrior, DH, occasional Rogue and Paladin. Ooze has won me more games in my climb over the past few days than I can count. It's a mandatory addition IMHO.
I don't want to be THAT guy, but Shaman has 2nd highest winrate out of all classes in Standard with a 0.4% difference from the 1st place. I myself have had around 80% winrate with Elemental Shaman since the release of the mini set. I usually understand rant posts, but this one isn't even true lol.
yeah shaman is good now guys....
Excuse me, but it's currently the 2nd highest winrate class on HSReplay.net
Shaman is good and Doom Shaman is probably better than Elemental Shaman, however I cannot imagine a deck, other than OTK Demon Hunter perhaps, that wants to waste a deck slot to run Ooze in the current meta
There's def a few other decks. Priest could squeeze one or two in if they find themselves not stabilizing in the MU fast enough. Miracle Rogue could drop Cult Neophyte if it wants to tech for Shaman over Paladin/Druid/Mage. But yeah, most decks cant afford a card that's dead weight in a bunch of matchups and doesn't directly synergize with their gameplan.
>dead weight in a bunch of matchups
Let's look at the decks with over 10k plays right now.
Face Hunter: runs Rinling
Ele sham: runs double Whack a Gnoll
Spellmage: No weap
Spell Druid: No weap
Deathrattle DH: killing Tuskpiercer isnt really useful but they run Felsteel too
Ele sham V2: see above
Miracle Rogue: Mediocre since they dont run weap buffs, but still usable
Secret Pally: Secret sword and Hammer of the Naaru
Aggro Sham: Doomhammer
Spellmage v2: no weap
Ele sham v3: Gnoll Hammer again
So by adding the total number of games, and subtracting the ones where it's useless, we get 72% of matchups where it has some use, and adjusting for the fact that it's only partly useful against Hunter or Miracle Rogue, that makes it useful about 60% of the time. That's about the same as Cult Neophyte since Deathrattle DH, Ele Sham, and Secret Pally arent very bothered by 1 extra spell mana
We must be playing a completely different meta because I haven't seen any Spell Mages or any Paladins in days. Deathrattle DH, Face Hunter, Doom and Elemental Shaman, Control Priests, Rush Warriors, Token Druids and some Miracle Rogues, these are the main decks I see.
Ooze can only really shine vs Doomhammer. The problem with Ooze is that it is a 2-drop that you can't really play on turn 2. Instead, if you draw it early (or keep it in mulligan) it is a dead card in your hand until your opponent equips a weapon. For example let's say you play vs Face Hunter. Do you keep it in your mulligan and hold it hoping they play the Rifle on t4 and you can drop Ooze on t5 to deny them a 2nd secret? Or do you mulligan it away and hope to draw it when/if you need it? If you topdeck it on t2 do you play it on curve or keep it? Surviving vs Face Hunter is all about denying them an overwhelming early tempo and Ooze on t2 is simply not good enough tempo, while Ooze as a keep in your hand early is even worse tempo. Same principle applies for a matchup against Rush Warrior.
So you say Ooze is useful 60% of the time, I say it is an awkward card to have in your deck that leads to bad tempo plays 50-55% of the time and only really useful vs Doomhammer
Just because its usable in a matchup doesn't mean its useful in a matchup.
Ie: Against a face hunter you Ooze their Rinling's and then they kill you with a Rhino or Piercing Shot because you just put a 3/2 body on board. Oozing a Gnoll Hammer doesn't stop their now buffed minion from dominating the board leading to them winning the game. Oozing a Hammer of the Naaru and leaving up a 6/6 Elemental isn't gonna help much.
Please note that I said "dead weight", not "dead". Whether or not it can hit a weapon is unimportant. The important part is if hitting that weapon helps put you in a position to win the game. Also, keep in mind that to put an Ooze in you have to take something out. Don't just look at what Ooze adds when it hits. Look at what Ooze costs. A lot of decks (Rush Warrior, DR DH being prime examples) are so dense with synergies that they can't afford something that doesn't further their gameplan.