Yeah, evolve effects always have the potential to screw you (although Doomsayer can be a good thing too). I'm not sure I'll likeRevolve due to the sheer RNG quantity, which I'm somewhat averse to. But on average, in a battlecry deck, it's a very good effect.
Doomsayer being in the Revolve pool really isn't as big a deal as you're making it out to be. Let's do some math. For simplicity, I'll skew it pretty significantly in your favor: As of today (without the Darkmoon Faire expansion) there's 68 2-drops in Standard (more after Darkmoon, obviously). This means every 2 drop you Revolve has a 1/68 chance of becoming Doomsayer. Let's assume every single game you play as Shaman you Revolve, say, 2 2-drops (pretty generous estimate, I think, since you're not looking to Revolve enemy or friendly 2 drops as a rule) and every single game you Revolve into Doomsayer you instantly lose - the card now says "at the end of your turn deal 30 damage to every Shaman hero". That's still only a 2/68 drop in your winrate, or about 3%.
Pretty significant, right? Now think about: -The new 2 cost minions added to the pool, diluting the chance of Doomsayer -The times that Doomsayer spawns and you're behind on board, thus winning you the game instead of losing it -The times Revolve results in a roughly equivalent situation for both players, thus Doomsayer being roughly neutral. -The times when Doomsayer spawns but you're able to clear it, thus neutralizing it. -The times when you don't cast Revolve on any 2-drops, thus not running into Doomsayer at all.
Like, Piloted Shredder absolutely dominated the meta in its heyday, and Doomsayer was both more commonly spawned back then (at least during GvG) and a bigger deal to the sort of deck that would run a Shredder (which was typically aggressive and hated having its minions cleared, as opposed to the more control-type deck you'd expect to see Revolve in. I don't see why you're fixated on one very uncommon outcome (that's not even neccesarily bad for you!).
The problem I see with Revolve is that it can backfire as crazy. I am not sure I would include this card in any control deck considering the dangerous RNG factor. I would rather go for hard removals. We have plenty.
25: 2/2 drops, 10 of being optimally useful depending on situation and some being fine on board.
6: 1/3 drops, 2 being ok if you have spells, 1 being draw, and other 2 being situational. Mana addict is just bad or at least, extremely situational drop.
13 cards that are really terrible, that are just do absolutely nothing, have the most useless stats like Whirlkick Master being the maximum of sh*t when it comes bad stats and 1/1 being the minimum, and some of the 13 can effect your game plan allot.
116 2 drops. which 13 are just horrible, 8-10 being mega good. So you are left with 113 2 drops which 8 are good and rest are just cards that dont change anything or have mediocre effect. So each minion, either yours or enemies has 11% chance to get a degraded or unwanted minion.
Revolve : There are many angles you can go around this card, you can use this as worst devolve to screw resurrection priest or buffaladin, you can use it to change your useless 3/2 to maybe something else...ya know that this card this exists Doomsayer , this is why shaman doesnt evolve 1 mana minions. and now you can recycle 2 mana minions into doomsayers. this card is good and bad, literally something that shaman didnt need, just give devolve number 2.
Instead of being a glass half empty kinda dude, you might consider deciding to look at it as though you actually have a difficult puzzle to solve in your deck building. Think of all the DHs and Paladins (and anyone else you reckon) who never get to enjoy the thrill and satisfaction that you do of making something out of nothing.
If you say that this means that you haven't played shaman for last 3 years
Shamans were completely out of control last year and they played lots of overload cards, especially Quest Shaman with their created by bs. Shaman is bad cause they don't have a win condition card like Shudderwock, not because of overload. Most overload cards are anyways undercosted for their effect.
Shaman feels like....If you were eating the same soup...forth 1000 time. thats how it feels like to make the shaman quest work. Like...im just getting tired of this...im...mind numingly tired of this, other classes get advances while shaman needs to setle with random garbage that blizzard offers.
playing as a shaman sure feels bad... it even got worse than before, before we could play control / heal shaman and stall to win... now we dont even have that and all the new archetypes sucks... shaman have so many archetypes that don't synergies.
fx the new corrupt mechanic has anti synergy with both overload and the cost reduction you get from farsight and lady vashj. also cards like lighting breath which requires a dragon and grounds keeper which require spells that cost 5 or more... these are some of shamans only strong cards but... where are the dragons? where are the 5 cost spells? all the 5+ spells are boardclears, bloodlust and whatever runic carvings and eye of the storm think it is
also Y'shaarj, the defiler combo requires you to play a 5 card or more card in order to activate dunk tank and circus medic, which 5 card cost is that suppose to be? there are literally no good 5 drops for shaman also in order to make that shitty combo work you need to play 6 battlecries to activate a quest, wait a turn and have space in your hand for up to 8 cards, even tho you only need 4 of them to win (4 circus medics) that just tells you how much dunk tank sucks, even the 1 place it is suppose to work it only fucks up your hand. and how are you suppose to find and play all these combo pieces with no draw???
shaman has no aggro strategy, no combo strategy no control strategy... all it has is either some type of midrange shaman based around doomhammer or spell damage and evole shaman
side note... i hate evole shaman... it is way way way too random
I think the problem is not with printing new archetypes for shaman, the problem is that when you make a new archetype for a class, with no more support because is new, you need a good basic and classic set to make it viable or make that cards of the new archetype overpowered (look the LOE midrange shaman or Galakrond shaman when released). That is the difference between shamand and rogue por example. Rogue has a very good basic and classic set, and all centred in what he is good (tempo and agressive style). Meanwhile shaman has very weak cards.
In this new set shaman, we get new archetype, with no suport from the classic and basic, and not really strong cards at all, so it won't work, but shaman is getting a thing he needed in form of neutral cards: A win condition for control style. Shaman has good control tools, but was lacking that, so there is a chance to be viable. I was playing highlander shaman since before it was popular. Was enough good to hit legend, but the problem of the deck was that it only has Alex as a truly wincon, so I am building a new type of HL shaman with a pair of old goods and I am hyped for trying it.
Once again, and for third time in a row, shaman is getting meh cards, happened to pally the last year, and to priest the previous, there always happens, but we have to expect that in the next expansion shaman basic set will be revamped, like priest, so maybe things will be better for us :)
EDIT: BTW, check the difference of powerlevel between DH cards and shaman, and you will understand why the class is in that spot so long.
Usually would agree but with Tikatus control decks are dead. That card single handily ruins a whole archetype.
I think the problem is not with printing new archetypes for shaman, the problem is that when you make a new archetype for a class, with no more support because is new, you need a good basic and classic set to make it viable or make that cards of the new archetype overpowered (look the LOE midrange shaman or Galakrond shaman when released). That is the difference between shamand and rogue por example. Rogue has a very good basic and classic set, and all centred in what he is good (tempo and agressive style). Meanwhile shaman has very weak cards.
In this new set shaman, we get new archetype, with no suport from the classic and basic, and not really strong cards at all, so it won't work, but shaman is getting a thing he needed in form of neutral cards: A win condition for control style. Shaman has good control tools, but was lacking that, so there is a chance to be viable. I was playing highlander shaman since before it was popular. Was enough good to hit legend, but the problem of the deck was that it only has Alex as a truly wincon, so I am building a new type of HL shaman with a pair of old goods and I am hyped for trying it.
Once again, and for third time in a row, shaman is getting meh cards, happened to pally the last year, and to priest the previous, there always happens, but we have to expect that in the next expansion shaman basic set will be revamped, like priest, so maybe things will be better for us :)
EDIT: BTW, check the difference of powerlevel between DH cards and shaman, and you will understand why the class is in that spot so long.
Usually would agree but with Tikatus control decks are dead. That card single handily ruins a whole archetype.
True. Last expansion just broke the hearthstone ladder.
this really feels like a bad execution after bad execution, like i have paid money before to this game, i even bought the battle pass, i paid to have fun, not grind my brain into minsh meat on trying to figure out on, what shaman deck works after 100s and 100s of times.
this really feels like a bad execution after bad execution, like i have paid money before to this game, i even bought the battle pass, i paid to have fun, not grind my brain into minsh meat on trying to figure out on, what shaman deck works after 100s and 100s of times.
I crafted new c'tun and after 10 games vs demonlocks i understood that it was dumb craft. Don't think they will nerf Tickatus so now control shaman is completely and absolutely dead. The only counter before was bomb war but it was 50-50 matchup. New lock is unbeatable like gala priest.
The only way now is evolve and totem shaman, sadly. Control Shaman is fully DEAD
I crafted new c'tun and after 10 games vs demonlocks i understood that it was dumb craft. Don't think they will nerf Tickatus so now control shaman is completely and absolutely dead.
Tikatus control lock is just the new hotness. Shaman can just build much more aggressively (like a midrange build) rather than playing a really slow control deck that relies completely on drawing C'thun.
Shaman has a lot of pretty good aggro tools now for aggro/midrange decks. You don't need token or bloodlust synergies to make use of spell damage and the weapons that shaman has access to.
Yeah, evolve effects always have the potential to screw you (although Doomsayer can be a good thing too). I'm not sure I'll like Revolve due to the sheer RNG quantity, which I'm somewhat averse to. But on average, in a battlecry deck, it's a very good effect.
Doomsayer being in the Revolve pool really isn't as big a deal as you're making it out to be. Let's do some math. For simplicity, I'll skew it pretty significantly in your favor: As of today (without the Darkmoon Faire expansion) there's 68 2-drops in Standard (more after Darkmoon, obviously). This means every 2 drop you Revolve has a 1/68 chance of becoming Doomsayer. Let's assume every single game you play as Shaman you Revolve, say, 2 2-drops (pretty generous estimate, I think, since you're not looking to Revolve enemy or friendly 2 drops as a rule) and every single game you Revolve into Doomsayer you instantly lose - the card now says "at the end of your turn deal 30 damage to every Shaman hero". That's still only a 2/68 drop in your winrate, or about 3%.
Pretty significant, right? Now think about:
-The new 2 cost minions added to the pool, diluting the chance of Doomsayer
-The times that Doomsayer spawns and you're behind on board, thus winning you the game instead of losing it
-The times Revolve results in a roughly equivalent situation for both players, thus Doomsayer being roughly neutral.
-The times when Doomsayer spawns but you're able to clear it, thus neutralizing it.
-The times when you don't cast Revolve on any 2-drops, thus not running into Doomsayer at all.
Like, Piloted Shredder absolutely dominated the meta in its heyday, and Doomsayer was both more commonly spawned back then (at least during GvG) and a bigger deal to the sort of deck that would run a Shredder (which was typically aggressive and hated having its minions cleared, as opposed to the more control-type deck you'd expect to see Revolve in. I don't see why you're fixated on one very uncommon outcome (that's not even neccesarily bad for you!).
The problem I see with Revolve is that it can backfire as crazy. I am not sure I would include this card in any control deck considering the dangerous RNG factor. I would rather go for hard removals. We have plenty.
imma just count the stats.
We have 20: 3/2 drops with only 2 having positive effect for the shaman class: Astromancer Solarian and Sorcerer's Apprentice
While Wild Pyromancer debends on the situation and Kanrethad Ebonlocke being the worse because it shuffles a useless prime into your deck.
Next is 5: 1/1 drops, while Bloodmage Thalnos and Patient Assassinare the only good ocnces.
25: 2/2 drops, 10 of being optimally useful depending on situation and some being fine on board.
6: 1/3 drops, 2 being ok if you have spells, 1 being draw, and other 2 being situational. Mana addict is just bad or at least, extremely situational drop.
24: 2/3 drops, 4 being effectively useful.
4: 1/4, 2 being useful.
1: 4/5 Ancient Watcher that is really bad
1: 3/5 Imprisoned Vilefiend
1: 2/6 Injured Tol'vir
2: 0/4 Lorewalker Cho and Nat Pagle
7: 2/1 drops, 5 being useful.
1: 5/4 Imprisoned Felmaw
3: 3/1, 2 being useful.
4: 1/2's, 3 being useful.
9: minions with 0 attack. 3 being useful. 1 is destroys the board. rest are pretty useless. so 5
1: 2/4 that could destroy your own minions Spitting Camel
1: 2/4 that could ruin your board or help your board state Mo'arg Artificer
1: 3/3 Imprisoned Scarp Imp
aaaaaaaaand 1: 4/4 Millhouse Manastorm
13 cards that are really terrible, that are just do absolutely nothing, have the most useless stats like Whirlkick Master being the maximum of sh*t when it comes bad stats and 1/1 being the minimum, and some of the 13 can effect your game plan allot.
116 2 drops. which 13 are just horrible, 8-10 being mega good. So you are left with 113 2 drops which 8 are good and rest are just cards that dont change anything or have mediocre effect.
So each minion, either yours or enemies has 11% chance to get a degraded or unwanted minion.
Pepega Shaman with Doomhammer, burst and totems will be good, don't worry.
maybe, if overload wasnt a problem.
Overload is never a problem for Shaman.
Done some theorycrafting.
Some use for Revolve: https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1369113-revolve-shaman
and this deck is based on this i play now https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1369091-based-phaoris-shaman
If you say that this means that you haven't played shaman for last 3 years
Instead of being a glass half empty kinda dude, you might consider deciding to look at it as though you actually have a difficult puzzle to solve in your deck building. Think of all the DHs and Paladins (and anyone else you reckon) who never get to enjoy the thrill and satisfaction that you do of making something out of nothing.
Shamans were completely out of control last year and they played lots of overload cards, especially Quest Shaman with their created by bs. Shaman is bad cause they don't have a win condition card like Shudderwock, not because of overload. Most overload cards are anyways undercosted for their effect.
Shaman feels like....If you were eating the same soup...forth 1000 time.
thats how it feels like to make the shaman quest work.
Like...im just getting tired of this...im...mind numingly tired of this, other classes get advances while shaman needs to setle with random garbage that blizzard offers.
playing as a shaman sure feels bad... it even got worse than before, before we could play control / heal shaman and stall to win... now we dont even have that and all the new archetypes sucks... shaman have so many archetypes that don't synergies.
fx the new corrupt mechanic has anti synergy with both overload and the cost reduction you get from farsight and lady vashj.
also cards like lighting breath which requires a dragon and grounds keeper which require spells that cost 5 or more... these are some of shamans only strong cards but... where are the dragons? where are the 5 cost spells?
all the 5+ spells are boardclears, bloodlust and whatever runic carvings and eye of the storm think it is
also Y'shaarj, the defiler combo requires you to play a 5 card or more card in order to activate dunk tank and circus medic, which 5 card cost is that suppose to be? there are literally no good 5 drops for shaman
also in order to make that shitty combo work you need to play 6 battlecries to activate a quest, wait a turn and have space in your hand for up to 8 cards, even tho you only need 4 of them to win (4 circus medics) that just tells you how much dunk tank sucks, even the 1 place it is suppose to work it only fucks up your hand. and how are you suppose to find and play all these combo pieces with no draw???
shaman has no aggro strategy, no combo strategy no control strategy... all it has is either some type of midrange shaman based around doomhammer or spell damage and evole shaman
side note... i hate evole shaman... it is way way way too random
Usually would agree but with Tikatus control decks are dead. That card single handily ruins a whole archetype.
Is that a murloc? Yawn....conceede!
True. Last expansion just broke the hearthstone ladder.
this really feels like a bad execution after bad execution, like i have paid money before to this game, i even bought the battle pass, i paid to have fun, not grind my brain into minsh meat on trying to figure out on, what shaman deck works after 100s and 100s of times.
I crafted new c'tun and after 10 games vs demonlocks i understood that it was dumb craft. Don't think they will nerf Tickatus so now control shaman is completely and absolutely dead. The only counter before was bomb war but it was 50-50 matchup. New lock is unbeatable like gala priest.
The only way now is evolve and totem shaman, sadly. Control Shaman is fully DEAD
kinda knew it.
Tikatus control lock is just the new hotness. Shaman can just build much more aggressively (like a midrange build) rather than playing a really slow control deck that relies completely on drawing C'thun.
Shaman has a lot of pretty good aggro tools now for aggro/midrange decks. You don't need token or bloodlust synergies to make use of spell damage and the weapons that shaman has access to.