I really don't think Storm Chaser is important. Against any deck for which you need to play an early Scheme to survive, drawing it turn 4 is already too late. You'd need to wait until turn 8 to deal 4 damage aoe, but by turn 8 Rogue killed you already, Hunter is mainly doing big threats, you don't need it against Warrior, against Mage if you draw it turn 4, you can deal with a giant wave by turn 12. So sometimes it will happen, they don't always start with giant on 3 or 4, but how often will it be relevent to play Storm Chaser for that scenario ?
I can see it beeing good against Token Druid and Murloc Shaman though, cause you often don't need much more than 2 or 3 damage on the scheme to clear and those decks tend to be able to be still flooding the board by turn 5/6+. But honestly, there are better cards to deal with that than tutoring your scheme.
I really don't think Storm Chaser is important. Against any deck for which you need to play an early Scheme to survive, drawing it turn 4 is already too late. You'd need to wait until turn 8 to deal 4 damage aoe, but by turn 8 Rogue killed you already, Hunter is mainly doing big threats, you don't need it against Warrior, against Mage if you draw it turn 4, you can deal with a giant wave by turn 12. So sometimes it will happen, they don't always start with giant on 3 or 4, but how often will it be relevent to play Storm Chaser for that scenario ?
I can see it beeing good against Token Druid and Murloc Shaman though, cause you often don't need much more than 2 or 3 damage on the scheme to clear and those decks tend to be able to be still flooding the board by turn 5/6+. But honestly, there are better cards to deal with that than tutoring your scheme.
I agree with this. Also, sometimes you will draw your schemes before the Storm Chaser making it an understatted, no impact card.
I can indeed cycle through the deck quite fast. The impact usually is more control due to tokens and spells blowing up things.
The main win con of my version is that a full or nearly full board hits with either bloodlust or gets transformed into legends. The deck can also win a late game value war. I used strom bringer for a few games but think dynamo squeezes more value out. I would even run a second one but it´s a bit expensive. I am torn about Archivist. Quite powerful in control matchups but i like to finish it not stall for another 20 turns ....
I actually just lost against a more Midrange version of Shaman with the Frog Spirits and the whole spell cycling, but it used Nomi as a finisher and also had Shudderwock and Cairne Bloodhoof. This was at rank 5 so it wasn't anything too gimmicky I suppose.
I haven't laddered with it yet so it's not refined, hence the 2 copies of every card. I might add a Giggling Inventor in there somewhere (probably over an Earth Shock and a MCT). Unseen Saboteur is a fun card but maybe two is a bit much as well xd
Going to jump in here to talk about the surge of Nomi Priests I've seen. This was a hard matchup and one that was becoming extremely common so I subbed out my Sabatour and mind control tech for 2x hecklebot. Between that and Hagatha's Scheme I seem to be doing a lot better against them.
Going to jump in here to talk about the surge of Nomi Priests I've seen. This was a hard matchup and one that was becoming extremely common so I subbed out my Sabatour and mind control tech for 2x hecklebot. Between that and Hagatha's Scheme I seem to be doing a lot better against them.
Thalnos and 2x Lightning Storm also kills those. I think the only way you lose that match-up is if you don't get your Schemes in time.
Going to jump in here to talk about the surge of Nomi Priests I've seen. This was a hard matchup and one that was becoming extremely common so I subbed out my Sabatour and mind control tech for 2x hecklebot. Between that and Hagatha's Scheme I seem to be doing a lot better against them.
Thalnos and 2x Lightning Storm also kills those. I think the only way you lose that match-up is if you don't get your Schemes.
That's why I added Bloodmage Thalnos in the first place =)
Just so you fellow control shaman experimentators know, I've been trying the list proposed by vicioussyndicate, and it actually feels great. There is a "Hunterace core" with Twilight Drakes, Omega Defender and Gigglings. Gigglins are really really good, insane against Rogue, great synergy with Shudder. I'm not too sure about the Drakes and the Defender yet, Drakes certainly feel good but maybe there is a better option.
What changes in the list they propose is the inclusion of E.V.I.L. cable rats. Although it seems underwhelming at first sight, it's really good. Minions generating minions give you insane fuel with Hagatha, and Lackeys are overpowered 1-cost minions. Play cable rat, get a spell, play its lackey, get another spell. So they also run Sludge thing, the other lackey generator, and Nimbus, the elemental generator ; 6 minions giving other minions.
I've been able to win two games strike against Elysianna Warrior, wining by turn 42 so close to the limit ! But you can spam sooo many spells that a matchup I felt was terrible not long ago, is probably closer to 50/50 now. I didn't really see it this way, but you can actually outvalue Warriors if you spam a LOT of random spells. Also, the list is running double Ooze so I feel slitghly favored against Rogue aswell. The VS list propose 2x ancestral healing which I think is too low impact, being exactly good on only Fountains, so I've cut them to get a 2nd Earth Shock and a 2nd Witch's Brew (just to get a better Bomb Hunter matchup, I hate this deck with my guts and if I can grab a few % against them I'll take it).
Really guys, give a try to the "tons of minions for tons of spells" way.
Really ? I feel like Storm is such a bad card, always has been. Paying 3 for 2 damage aoe is good, but the 2 mana overload is way too punishing imo. It's only good against Token decks which barely represent 10% of my matches.
edit : I mean, the deck has a lot of very good high-cost plays (gigglings, hagatha, fountains). When you Storm, you basically pass your next turn, and you can't really use the "tempo" you get of paying 2 mana from the spell's cost the next turn. Everytime I have to use storm, I know it delays all my curve by one turn. And when you face a board of 3 health minions... it's just random hope for the best.
While lightning storm feels like one of the weaker card in control shaman (especialy when you run into warriors the whole day), it's still hard to justify not running it. even against bomb warrior or tempo rogue, you end up finding a good use for it pretty quicly into the game)
On a side note, got legend twice in a row with control shaman
I decided to mix things up adding the anti-fun team (hecklebot/ saboteur).
I haven't seen many people talk about sludge slurper: the more I play control shaman, the more I think Sludge Slurper is actualy not good at all in it. I see many list adding it (including on this post), and i did play it during the first 2 weeks of the new expansion, but it's not worth a card slot imo. I think it's a trap, it looks good, but then you start to keep more cards in your opening hand instead of searching for the scheme against aggro, and as value generator earthen might is better. early game it doesn't do enough, late game it's worse than a lot of other alternatives. And if the idea is to get two spells from agatha in my experience unless you get lucky they end up clogging your hand with too much spells you can't use because it's not the right board state (aoes, storm bringer, bloodlust, ....), and you waste even more time just trying to avoid burning cards.
That decks seems to be really tech'ed towards Mecha'thun, why double Omega Mind Though (instead of double Witch's Brew)? And finally someone else is running double Earth Shock xd
I really don't think Storm Chaser is important. Against any deck for which you need to play an early Scheme to survive, drawing it turn 4 is already too late. You'd need to wait until turn 8 to deal 4 damage aoe, but by turn 8 Rogue killed you already, Hunter is mainly doing big threats, you don't need it against Warrior, against Mage if you draw it turn 4, you can deal with a giant wave by turn 12. So sometimes it will happen, they don't always start with giant on 3 or 4, but how often will it be relevent to play Storm Chaser for that scenario ?
I can see it beeing good against Token Druid and Murloc Shaman though, cause you often don't need much more than 2 or 3 damage on the scheme to clear and those decks tend to be able to be still flooding the board by turn 5/6+. But honestly, there are better cards to deal with that than tutoring your scheme.
I agree with this. Also, sometimes you will draw your schemes before the Storm Chaser making it an understatted, no impact card.
That´s why i did put it out and it´s also tutored by spirits in my deck.
Yeah frogs are a way better way to cycle through your deck than Storm Chaser imo
Idk about the Frog cycling with all the cheap spells, seems like you're through your deck before you know it without having a lot of impact :/
https://outof.cards
The list seems good to me, but I'd personally add at least 1 Witch's Brew and Earth Shock.
Thalnos is not needed imo, you can also cut the stormchasers
I can indeed cycle through the deck quite fast. The impact usually is more control due to tokens and spells blowing up things.
The main win con of my version is that a full or nearly full board hits with either bloodlust or gets transformed into legends. The deck can also win a late game value war. I used strom bringer for a few games but think dynamo squeezes more value out. I would even run a second one but it´s a bit expensive. I am torn about Archivist. Quite powerful in control matchups but i like to finish it not stall for another 20 turns ....
I actually just lost against a more Midrange version of Shaman with the Frog Spirits and the whole spell cycling, but it used Nomi as a finisher and also had Shudderwock and Cairne Bloodhoof. This was at rank 5 so it wasn't anything too gimmicky I suppose.
Aha yeah I think Gaara used a version like that xd
https://outof.cards
Hmm I see. I can't find any data of it online, is it any good?
If you can't find data online I doubt it's great ;)
Also since you asked for an Elysiana version, here's a basic list I've been using:
I haven't laddered with it yet so it's not refined, hence the 2 copies of every card. I might add a Giggling Inventor in there somewhere (probably over an Earth Shock and a MCT). Unseen Saboteur is a fun card but maybe two is a bit much as well xd
https://outof.cards
Going to jump in here to talk about the surge of Nomi Priests I've seen. This was a hard matchup and one that was becoming extremely common so I subbed out my Sabatour and mind control tech for 2x hecklebot. Between that and Hagatha's Scheme I seem to be doing a lot better against them.
Thalnos and 2x Lightning Storm also kills those. I think the only way you lose that match-up is if you don't get your Schemes in time.
https://outof.cards
That's why I added Bloodmage Thalnos in the first place =)
Just so you fellow control shaman experimentators know, I've been trying the list proposed by vicioussyndicate, and it actually feels great. There is a "Hunterace core" with Twilight Drakes, Omega Defender and Gigglings. Gigglins are really really good, insane against Rogue, great synergy with Shudder. I'm not too sure about the Drakes and the Defender yet, Drakes certainly feel good but maybe there is a better option.
What changes in the list they propose is the inclusion of E.V.I.L. cable rats. Although it seems underwhelming at first sight, it's really good. Minions generating minions give you insane fuel with Hagatha, and Lackeys are overpowered 1-cost minions. Play cable rat, get a spell, play its lackey, get another spell. So they also run Sludge thing, the other lackey generator, and Nimbus, the elemental generator ; 6 minions giving other minions.
I've been able to win two games strike against Elysianna Warrior, wining by turn 42 so close to the limit ! But you can spam sooo many spells that a matchup I felt was terrible not long ago, is probably closer to 50/50 now. I didn't really see it this way, but you can actually outvalue Warriors if you spam a LOT of random spells. Also, the list is running double Ooze so I feel slitghly favored against Rogue aswell. The VS list propose 2x ancestral healing which I think is too low impact, being exactly good on only Fountains, so I've cut them to get a 2nd Earth Shock and a 2nd Witch's Brew (just to get a better Bomb Hunter matchup, I hate this deck with my guts and if I can grab a few % against them I'll take it).
Really guys, give a try to the "tons of minions for tons of spells" way.
Original list : https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/deck-library/shaman-decks/control-shaman/lackey-control-shaman/
I like that list, but I would never cut Lightning Storm from Control Shaman personally.
https://outof.cards
Really ? I feel like Storm is such a bad card, always has been. Paying 3 for 2 damage aoe is good, but the 2 mana overload is way too punishing imo. It's only good against Token decks which barely represent 10% of my matches.
edit : I mean, the deck has a lot of very good high-cost plays (gigglings, hagatha, fountains). When you Storm, you basically pass your next turn, and you can't really use the "tempo" you get of paying 2 mana from the spell's cost the next turn. Everytime I have to use storm, I know it delays all my curve by one turn. And when you face a board of 3 health minions... it's just random hope for the best.
I like running 1 Lightning Storm as it has some use. Currently running double Mana Tide Totems so you draw it plenty enough.
While lightning storm feels like one of the weaker card in control shaman (especialy when you run into warriors the whole day), it's still hard to justify not running it. even against bomb warrior or tempo rogue, you end up finding a good use for it pretty quicly into the game)
On a side note, got legend twice in a row with control shaman
I decided to mix things up adding the anti-fun team (hecklebot/ saboteur).
I haven't seen many people talk about sludge slurper: the more I play control shaman, the more I think Sludge Slurper is actualy not good at all in it. I see many list adding it (including on this post), and i did play it during the first 2 weeks of the new expansion, but it's not worth a card slot imo. I think it's a trap, it looks good, but then you start to keep more cards in your opening hand instead of searching for the scheme against aggro, and as value generator earthen might is better. early game it doesn't do enough, late game it's worse than a lot of other alternatives. And if the idea is to get two spells from agatha in my experience unless you get lucky they end up clogging your hand with too much spells you can't use because it's not the right board state (aoes, storm bringer, bloodlust, ....), and you waste even more time just trying to avoid burning cards.
That decks seems to be really tech'ed towards Mecha'thun, why double Omega Mind Though (instead of double Witch's Brew)? And finally someone else is running double Earth Shock xd
On a side not Bloodmage Thalnos + 2x Lightning Storm means you can only lose to Chef Nomi Priest if you don't draw your Schemes but it's a free win otherwise.
https://outof.cards