I'd like to apologize. Contrary to my previous post, I actually did take out Archivist Elysiana (and got 1600 dust for it). Out of 50 games, she was only played once, and I lost that game anyway. It's not good in most match-ups and just clogs the hand. I tried many alternative cards, like Ysera, Swampqueen Hagatha and even Chef Nomi and Hakkar, the Soulflayer. Eventually I settled on Unseen Saboteur, because it helps a bit against the Holy Wrath Paladins I've seen lately, as well as Mecha'thun Warrior. Shudderwock by itself is arguably enough value in Control Games.
With the recent nerfs, and reduced weapon hate, what is the consensus for Likkim? Additionally more Overload cards can be run which will also benefit Thunderhead. My most recent version was running Feral Spirits with moderate succes.
Not an Overload deck but with 2x Zap, 2x Lighting Bolt, 2x Sludge Slurper, 1x Lightning Storm, 2x Feral Spirit. I dropped a Storm and an Earth Shock for the wolves and Oozes for Likkim since Rogues are gone. It helps protecting Thunderhead better.
On another note, about your previous post. Have you ever considered dropping Shudderwock instead of Elysianna?
Not an Overload deck but with 2x Zap, 2x Lighting Bolt, 2x Sludge Slurper, 1x Lightning Storm, 2x Feral Spirit. I dropped a Storm and an Earth Shock for the wolves and Oozes for Likkim since Rogues are gone. It helps protecting Thunderhead better.
On another note, about your previous post. Have you ever considered dropping Shudderwock instead of Elysianna?
Eyh, i played nearly 50 games with a list of control shaman without shudderwock, I found him a bit overkill since you play him when you have the tempo (a whole turn to play him) or just as a last comeback solution. Swampqueen and DK is enough and Elysiana saved me multiple times versus mirrors, warriors, Thief rogues and also shaman murloc with the DK.
I have put some elementals (very good for early game) and Barrista Lynchen to copy battlecries of elementals, MCtech, oozes, or the horror generated by swampqueen, a lot of value in this card. Being able to use multiple times MCtech with bog slosher and barrista gives you a big edge versus token, zoo and mech pala ^^
I really like Archmage Vargoth in my control shaman. Besides having some great spell targets (Rain of Toads, Far Sight, Haunting Visions in my build), he can also be played turn 4 to draw out premium removal. The omegle defenders honestly seem very weak here. I've been thinking about cutting Elysiana and Shudderwok due to finding I play them very little anymore. I used to run into more control or bomb warriors before but the meta has shook the frequency of those to be much less.
vargoth is actually great if you're playing a lot of AoE as you can do huge lightning storms. I personally run both vargoth and electra when I'm running a lot of spells.
I cut them in a more minion focussed version though in favour of zentimo. (in this kind of deck I use a finisher though over the fatigue game with elysiana)
Thing is about shaman right now is there are barely any auto include cards, which means you can build each archetype in a multitude of ways.
Don't let anyone tell you that your deck is worse because it's different, because the chances are they are wrong. I fell for this trap when I first started playing shaman in this meta. I was told I "needed" the fatigue package to stand a chance VS. warrior. Well guess what, warrior is bad match up for us, so trying to bolster your deck to get a slightly better result vs a bad match up is actually bad deck building.
you will struggle to get above 40% vs warriors no matter what, and in the process you weaken your deck in areas it should have been incredibly strong. So the decks you had 70% winrates with before drop to 50+%, all for a few measly points vs warrior. this is actually counter intuitive deck building in my opinion.
in most cases tech cards are bad. unless it's something like weapon removal or silence in a meta that dictates the use of them.
this is my opinion of course, but the numbers back up what I'm saying (and also these were lessons I learned from much better players on here over the years)
you will struggle to get above 40% vs warriors no matter what, and in the process you weaken your deck in areas it should have been incredibly strong. So the decks you had 70% winrates with before drop to 50+%, all for a few measly points vs warrior. this is actually counter intuitive deck building in my opinion.
I'm not sure about that. Before the patch, Warrior was about 20/25% of my games. 40% was still bad (even though for me it was more 50/50 in the end), but it's better than 0%. Without Elysianna, you probably have 0% winrate against Warrior. It was one card, to have 40-50% winrate instead of 0% in a lot of your games.
Nowdays I don't know, I've kinda given up on Control Shaman for now. It became too hard to try to be decent against everything, when it was a lot easier pre-patch. Now, have a deck that can beat Midrange Hunter ? And Bomb Warrior at the same time ? Not counting the token decks you face here and there and that require cards that are awfully bad against both hunter and war.
Looks solid, not sure what changes can be made but usually I only play with 1 copy of Storm Chaser because often times I draw all the spells before the second copy does anything and ideally you want to get the scheme in your mulligan for alot of matchups.
I did use a single copy of both Storm Chaser and Rain of Toads, but I really like the Tempo Sunreaver Warmage provides. The only downside it has is that Shudderwock targets randomly. I could drop that core but I would at least run a single copy of Storm Chaser as finding Scheme as soon as possible is a must.
Many people suggested Witch's Brew, but I found this card to be one of the weakest in the deck. Are you sure it's a staple?
you will struggle to get above 40% vs warriors no matter what, and in the process you weaken your deck in areas it should have been incredibly strong. So the decks you had 70% winrates with before drop to 50+%, all for a few measly points vs warrior. this is actually counter intuitive deck building in my opinion.
I'm not sure about that. Before the patch, Warrior was about 20/25% of my games. 40% was still bad (even though for me it was more 50/50 in the end), but it's better than 0%. Without Elysianna, you probably have 0% winrate against Warrior. It was one card, to have 40-50% winrate instead of 0% in a lot of your games.
Nowdays I don't know, I've kinda given up on Control Shaman for now. It became too hard to try to be decent against everything, when it was a lot easier pre-patch. Now, have a deck that can beat Midrange Hunter ? And Bomb Warrior at the same time ? Not counting the token decks you face here and there and that require cards that are awfully bad against both hunter and war.
I just started building the deck differently. warriors will still give you a hard time, but I win the majority of other match up's.
I'm actually thinking about dusting my Elysiana for the full value as I don't use her. she really shines in control warrior, and you only ever need it in control mirrors for shaman. I much prefer playing with a combo finisher.
Bomb Warrior shouldn't be that hard to be honest; Oozes, Elysianna, Fountains and Kragwa + Witches Brew seems enough to me or have I just been lucky? With Hagatha up you can keep your hand full and overdraw them.
you will struggle to get above 40% vs warriors no matter what, and in the process you weaken your deck in areas it should have been incredibly strong. So the decks you had 70% winrates with before drop to 50+%, all for a few measly points vs warrior. this is actually counter intuitive deck building in my opinion.
I'm not sure about that. Before the patch, Warrior was about 20/25% of my games. 40% was still bad (even though for me it was more 50/50 in the end), but it's better than 0%. Without Elysianna, you probably have 0% winrate against Warrior. It was one card, to have 40-50% winrate instead of 0% in a lot of your games.
Nowdays I don't know, I've kinda given up on Control Shaman for now. It became too hard to try to be decent against everything, when it was a lot easier pre-patch. Now, have a deck that can beat Midrange Hunter ? And Bomb Warrior at the same time ? Not counting the token decks you face here and there and that require cards that are awfully bad against both hunter and war.
I just started building the deck differently. warriors will still give you a hard time, but I win the majority of other match up's.
I'm actually thinking about dusting my Elysiana for the full value as I don't use her. she really shines in control warrior, and you only ever need it in control mirrors for shaman. I much prefer playing with a combo finisher.
Mecha'Thun is not good in shaman compared to Elysiana (in the purpose to win the long-game) especially if you equip Hagatha the hero and the card generated empeach you to do Mecha'Thun. I found warriors to be very very easy to beat and outvalue in the late-game. Even with a greedy list, excepting the aggro Bomb warrior, you will have a very good time.
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If you're running Thunderhead and all those cheap Overload Spell, I think Archivist Elysiana is obligatory to have a chance vs slower decks.
https://outof.cards
That makes sense I guess.
I'd like to apologize. Contrary to my previous post, I actually did take out Archivist Elysiana (and got 1600 dust for it). Out of 50 games, she was only played once, and I lost that game anyway. It's not good in most match-ups and just clogs the hand. I tried many alternative cards, like Ysera, Swampqueen Hagatha and even Chef Nomi and Hakkar, the Soulflayer. Eventually I settled on Unseen Saboteur, because it helps a bit against the Holy Wrath Paladins I've seen lately, as well as Mecha'thun Warrior. Shudderwock by itself is arguably enough value in Control Games.
https://outof.cards
With the recent nerfs, and reduced weapon hate, what is the consensus for Likkim? Additionally more Overload cards can be run which will also benefit Thunderhead. My most recent version was running Feral Spirits with moderate succes.
What do you even drop for Likkim and Feral Spirit? Overload Shaman sounds like an Aggro or Midrange deck xd
https://outof.cards
Not an Overload deck but with 2x Zap, 2x Lighting Bolt, 2x Sludge Slurper, 1x Lightning Storm, 2x Feral Spirit. I dropped a Storm and an Earth Shock for the wolves and Oozes for Likkim since Rogues are gone. It helps protecting Thunderhead better.
On another note, about your previous post. Have you ever considered dropping Shudderwock instead of Elysianna?
Archivist Elysiana is only useful against Warrior or other "fatigue" decks. Shudderwock is much more useful in more match-ups.
https://outof.cards
If you're looking for a different kind of Control deck, try out Big Shaman ;)
https://outof.cards
Eyh, i played nearly 50 games with a list of control shaman without shudderwock, I found him a bit overkill since you play him when you have the tempo (a whole turn to play him) or just as a last comeback solution. Swampqueen and DK is enough and Elysiana saved me multiple times versus mirrors, warriors, Thief rogues and also shaman murloc with the DK.
I have put some elementals (very good for early game) and Barrista Lynchen to copy battlecries of elementals, MCtech, oozes, or the horror generated by swampqueen, a lot of value in this card. Being able to use multiple times MCtech with bog slosher and barrista gives you a big edge versus token, zoo and mech pala ^^
Can i see your decklist with Barrista?
Hi!
this is it!
JAAECAaoIFO4B9QTeBe0F/wWKB/sMp+4Cs/cCm/8CioUDi4UD24kDlZQD0pgDuZkDvZkDxpkD1pkDhp0DBf4F6voCioADrZEDipQDAA==
vargoth is actually great if you're playing a lot of AoE as you can do huge lightning storms. I personally run both vargoth and electra when I'm running a lot of spells.
I cut them in a more minion focussed version though in favour of zentimo. (in this kind of deck I use a finisher though over the fatigue game with elysiana)
Thing is about shaman right now is there are barely any auto include cards, which means you can build each archetype in a multitude of ways.
Don't let anyone tell you that your deck is worse because it's different, because the chances are they are wrong. I fell for this trap when I first started playing shaman in this meta. I was told I "needed" the fatigue package to stand a chance VS. warrior. Well guess what, warrior is bad match up for us, so trying to bolster your deck to get a slightly better result vs a bad match up is actually bad deck building.
you will struggle to get above 40% vs warriors no matter what, and in the process you weaken your deck in areas it should have been incredibly strong. So the decks you had 70% winrates with before drop to 50+%, all for a few measly points vs warrior. this is actually counter intuitive deck building in my opinion.
in most cases tech cards are bad. unless it's something like weapon removal or silence in a meta that dictates the use of them.
this is my opinion of course, but the numbers back up what I'm saying (and also these were lessons I learned from much better players on here over the years)
play to your strengths, always.
I'm not sure about that. Before the patch, Warrior was about 20/25% of my games. 40% was still bad (even though for me it was more 50/50 in the end), but it's better than 0%. Without Elysianna, you probably have 0% winrate against Warrior. It was one card, to have 40-50% winrate instead of 0% in a lot of your games.
Nowdays I don't know, I've kinda given up on Control Shaman for now. It became too hard to try to be decent against everything, when it was a lot easier pre-patch. Now, have a deck that can beat Midrange Hunter ? And Bomb Warrior at the same time ? Not counting the token decks you face here and there and that require cards that are awfully bad against both hunter and war.
.
Hi, thank you, but code is not working, can you try again? :)
Sorry here it is, I hope it works now ^^
I just started building the deck differently. warriors will still give you a hard time, but I win the majority of other match up's.
I'm actually thinking about dusting my Elysiana for the full value as I don't use her. she really shines in control warrior, and you only ever need it in control mirrors for shaman. I much prefer playing with a combo finisher.
I have some ideas I can share if you want.
Bomb Warrior shouldn't be that hard to be honest; Oozes, Elysianna, Fountains and Kragwa + Witches Brew seems enough to me or have I just been lucky? With Hagatha up you can keep your hand full and overdraw them.
What combo finisher do you mean? Mecha'Thun?
Mecha'Thun is not good in shaman compared to Elysiana (in the purpose to win the long-game) especially if you equip Hagatha the hero and the card generated empeach you to do Mecha'Thun. I found warriors to be very very easy to beat and outvalue in the late-game. Even with a greedy list, excepting the aggro Bomb warrior, you will have a very good time.