I've been playing hearthstone for a while now, since the Whispers of the old gods release. I haven't been around since the beginning, but I've seen many meta games, and I've seen the results of most rotations. One of my favorite classes in this game, shaman, has changed a lot since I've started playing. Tunnel Trog, tuskarr totemic, and totem golem are behind us.
But I've noticed an issue with the shaman class lately. Besides the time where Shudderwock haunted players at witchwood release and it's following metas (jaws and claws that still haunt my nightmares) and the shakeup that was even shaman, Shaman hasn't been really top tier. However, Shaman has been held back by a few things lately. The RNG nature of the class has always been a factor (random totems from the hero power, dealing 2-3 damage off a spell, Volcano damage being randomly distributed to just barely miss killing the enemy's Lich King, things like that). Desperately needing to do answer a threat and losing because you got unlucky never feels good. While some amount of luck is always there in Hearthstone, Shaman needs more than other classes.
The other things I feel hold shaman back in the year of the raven are the fact that the other classes could fulfill the roles of a shaman deck but better
In aggro territory, Shaman has a great advantage which is Flametongue totem. Landing one drop into Flametongue is a powerful turn two play, and it's ability to allow for value trades can't be understated. But as an aggro class, shaman doesn't have much else going for it. With prince Keleseth being so strong, Flametongue gets hard to justify except as a budget replacement. Zoo has a better long game, with lifetap sustaining a drawn out game, and powerful class cards like Doomguard. Hunter has a more aggressive hero power, and powerful synergies like Crackling Razormaw, houndmaster, and masters call. Not to mention the raw value that is Deathstalker Rexxar. So there are already powerful aggro decks that do the job better than shaman can.
How about midrange then? well, Rogue has valeera, the classic rogue class cards like preparation and SI:7 agent. Spell hunter has Deathstalker Rexxar. Midrange Hunter as well. With no great Midrange strategy to push it, Midrange Shaman isn't looking great. there's evolve shaman, but we come back to the problem of inherent RNG making the deck questionable sometimes
As for Combo, well there's Malygos Shaman. Oh wait, Malygos Druid also exists and is more reliable.
Well, how about control? Healing rain is good late game recovery. Volcano is a good board clear. and of Course, Hagatha. But Frost Lich Jaina is a better control card, so is Rexxar, and Hagatha is RNG based.
So what was the point of my rambling? I believe that with the next set's release, and the rotation of Un'goro, Frozen throne, and Kobolds, the meta will undergo a massive shift as staples of the last 2 years such as fire fly, the death knights, and powerful class cards from those 3 sets go away. Shaman will lose a few things, but will retain Hagatha, which in my opinion is the most powerful Hero post KotFT. Shaman could make a serious comeback.
So this is an opinion piece, please don't take my ramblings as pure fact, I could be seriously wrong. If you do find a top tier shaman deck that totally out values or beats up a 67 health druid or whatever, please send it to me, I'd love to play it.
I forget who I heard say it (Ike? Zalae?), but they agreed with you.
I also agree that Shaman's biggest problem is that it doesn't have good early game minions, and there haven't been any/many good early game neutral minions released.
Shaman actually has a ton of 1 and 2 drops. But they are almost all awful. Air Elemental, Dust Devil, Wartbringer, Witch's Apprentice, Brrloc, Fireplume Harbinger, Ghost Light Angler, Kobold Hermit, Murmuring Elemental, Omega Mind.
As an aggro or token deck, there's very little in the Shaman toolbox to get ahead or go wide with, which is why people play Even. But then you lose Bloodlust, which is like the whole fucking point of being a token deck. That's why Even Shaman has to play a bunch of midrange garbage and hope that Hagatha can pull a win out of her ass.
The fact that Even Shaman is competitively viable says a lot more about Genn than it does about Shaman, IMO.
The problem is that if Shaman does get a good early game, Flametongue Totem becomes a 2-mana 4/3 with charge. Broken. It is part of the reason Midrange Shaman was so good during WOG and ONIK, and why Aggro Shaman was so good during MSG. Not sure what the solution is. But Shaman shouldn't be given a good early game minion while FT is still in the game.
Let's be honest here. If it weren't for Genn Greymane (and Shudderwock but that deck took a huge hit) Shaman in Standard would remain the dead class it's been during the Frozen Throne and Catacombs days. Why would you play e.g. Token Shaman (regardless of Evolve shenanigans) when Even Shaman is so much more consistent? Nuff said.
The main issues are the RNG nature and mainly the Overload keyword. It's impossible to balance as been shown by the era of Tunnel Trogg. Either utterly broken or useless, there was never a middle ground. Also, the class base cards are mostly bad which is why Shaman, similar to Priest, is very much reliant on getting support from expansions.
Shaman don't have a problem. I mean the only problem is that they only can play Even Shaman and after nerfs no other version i viable. But this is a Genn/Baku-problem. I mean Even Paladin/Odd Paladin, Even Warlock, Odd Rogue, Odd Warrior, Odd Mage and (maybe) now Odd Druid is the best way to build every class. It is because these hero powers are a free "card" (play a 1/1/ play two 1/1's, get a card, gain 4 amor, equip a 2/2 weapon, cast Flame Geyser) you can play turn after turn without using a card.
I think shaman does a little bit of everything (aside from secrets, ramp and armour). It's a versatile class at the moment (obviously volcano is rotating which is a powerful tool for control variants). It does have more potential I think, just nothing seems to have been refined - and it has a better early game than some classes, druid is a nightmare to play right now. Even shaman is a fun deck. I agree though that Hunter, rogue and paladin are just so much more powerful in the mid-range stakes, with huge tempo swings in their midgame from deathrattle, or powerful finishers in the late game via recruit (for hunter at least). I think the rotation can't come soon enough - depending on the next set, I think shaman could be really cool if they finish off some of the stuff they've introduced recently.
Shaman was designed as a Jack of All Trades class, the Red Mage of Hearthstone. The hero power can have many different effects that sort of mimic what other classes can do (namely Paladin, Warrior and Priest), but it is randomized. Shaman has burst spells, board clears, token synergy, healing, taunts, weapons, drawing mechanics... just (mostly) on an inferior level compared to what other classes have.
So, Shaman being in a position where it is adopting a playstyle that other classes can do better is part of its design. The big benefit is, that it usually has some tools available in every direction, meaning that it can be played as almost anything. Of course, like in many RPGs, it's better in Hearthstone to be good at one thing than mediocre at many. But unlike most classes, Shaman is usually not limited to one playstyle only, at least theoretically speaking.
The problems you describe for this year are nothing new, and to some extent even intended.
Looking into next year with the rotation, I'd agree that Shaman looks pretty decent actually. Even Shaman will keep many of its good cards, so it might stick around in a weaker form. Aggro/Midrange Shaman has gotten some reasonable cards this year, and a LOT of board clears, armor and healing effects will leave the format. For any kind of Control or Combo Shaman, the loss of Volcano and Healing Rain is likely too much to compensate.
Certainly doesn't help that they nerfed Unstable Evolution before evolve shaman ever became a good deck. (by slowing down the time it takes to evolve things).
The main issue with the recent nerf to Shudderwock(by nerfing Saronite Chain Gang) is it was at the very least a very unique deck. If the recent nerfs had actually killed odd paladin I might give them some credit, but it didn't, if anything all the nerfs did was reduce the variety in the decks you encountered.
Well, Path of Exile has the Scion class and Hearthstone has Shaman. Shaman can do all but all other classes can do better. It has been true for almost the entire game's lifetime, the first time i really grabbed shaman as quite an OTP was during GvG as Mech Sham but then Mage could achieve the same thing much better but that Power Mace tho.
I've played all the deck archetypes that existed for shaman as of today and yeah i always had in mind that another class could likely do better with that same archetype but who cares, they can't summon a 0/2 taunt for 2. I did a post in here more than a year ago about the class most dampening aspect : overload. Statements remain true, the base cards of shaman are essentially overload cards and ever since Shamanstone is over, they only released two cards to make up for the downside of overload which are the 3/2 that had the lava surge effect from Old gods and as of late, Likkim from RR.
Blizzard is so affraid to offer shaman a gameplay that evolve around this mechanic because not only it can proves fun killing and hard to play around but also they cannot "rework" it because it's part of the evergreen which means that either they bring shaman a new identity during each expansion or they don't and we end up waiting another couple of month hoping to get a viable deck archetype. And if you think about it, that explains why Shaman can play so much things another class can run yet better and its most efficient archetype is one that is brought by a neutral mechanic coupled with standalone class cards.
Here are the decks i play :
Note : the last deck named "cacarniflore" is a play word of the french version of shudderwock, basically i renamed it shittierwock. I just precise that so you can aknowledge how genuine my post is.
but standard is what it is anyways, the whole format is weird... even shaman is absolute bullshit in wild, everyone hates it, its almost as bad as wild
As a Mage main, my greetings. I can feel your struggle, but Mage has been in such a underwhelming spot the whole year of raven. Shaman at least got the loved / hated Shuderwock, but Mage didn´t have a successful deck for a very long time. Sure, Big Spell Mage is doing ok, but that´s about it, just ok. Tempo mage was also doing relatively fine during boomsday launch and then got killed by the nerf to Mana Wyrm. Odd Mage is ok, but not good enough. That´d be the definition of Mage this whole year, fine but not good enough. Sorry for trying to snatch your topic and rant about the Mage class, but I just feel like many people are pitying Warrior, Shaman (and now also Druid) classes, while Mage is just a below average class for a very long time. I say below average, because it hasn´t been an absolute trash, maybe that´s why people don´t whine about it, but a below average class just can´t compete.
It's a really strong midrange deck which can also sustain way into lategame. It works pretty well against every non-bullshit deck (looking at you, Horsemen Paladin), even Hunter.
Hi there.
I've been playing hearthstone for a while now, since the Whispers of the old gods release. I haven't been around since the beginning, but I've seen many meta games, and I've seen the results of most rotations. One of my favorite classes in this game, shaman, has changed a lot since I've started playing. Tunnel Trog, tuskarr totemic, and totem golem are behind us.
But I've noticed an issue with the shaman class lately. Besides the time where Shudderwock haunted players at witchwood release and it's following metas (jaws and claws that still haunt my nightmares) and the shakeup that was even shaman, Shaman hasn't been really top tier. However, Shaman has been held back by a few things lately. The RNG nature of the class has always been a factor (random totems from the hero power, dealing 2-3 damage off a spell, Volcano damage being randomly distributed to just barely miss killing the enemy's Lich King, things like that). Desperately needing to do answer a threat and losing because you got unlucky never feels good. While some amount of luck is always there in Hearthstone, Shaman needs more than other classes.
The other things I feel hold shaman back in the year of the raven are the fact that the other classes could fulfill the roles of a shaman deck but better
In aggro territory, Shaman has a great advantage which is Flametongue totem. Landing one drop into Flametongue is a powerful turn two play, and it's ability to allow for value trades can't be understated. But as an aggro class, shaman doesn't have much else going for it. With prince Keleseth being so strong, Flametongue gets hard to justify except as a budget replacement. Zoo has a better long game, with lifetap sustaining a drawn out game, and powerful class cards like Doomguard. Hunter has a more aggressive hero power, and powerful synergies like Crackling Razormaw, houndmaster, and masters call. Not to mention the raw value that is Deathstalker Rexxar. So there are already powerful aggro decks that do the job better than shaman can.
How about midrange then? well, Rogue has valeera, the classic rogue class cards like preparation and SI:7 agent. Spell hunter has Deathstalker Rexxar. Midrange Hunter as well. With no great Midrange strategy to push it, Midrange Shaman isn't looking great. there's evolve shaman, but we come back to the problem of inherent RNG making the deck questionable sometimes
As for Combo, well there's Malygos Shaman. Oh wait, Malygos Druid also exists and is more reliable.
Well, how about control? Healing rain is good late game recovery. Volcano is a good board clear. and of Course, Hagatha. But Frost Lich Jaina is a better control card, so is Rexxar, and Hagatha is RNG based.
So what was the point of my rambling? I believe that with the next set's release, and the rotation of Un'goro, Frozen throne, and Kobolds, the meta will undergo a massive shift as staples of the last 2 years such as fire fly, the death knights, and powerful class cards from those 3 sets go away. Shaman will lose a few things, but will retain Hagatha, which in my opinion is the most powerful Hero post KotFT. Shaman could make a serious comeback.
So this is an opinion piece, please don't take my ramblings as pure fact, I could be seriously wrong. If you do find a top tier shaman deck that totally out values or beats up a 67 health druid or whatever, please send it to me, I'd love to play it.
I forget who I heard say it (Ike? Zalae?), but they agreed with you.
I also agree that Shaman's biggest problem is that it doesn't have good early game minions, and there haven't been any/many good early game neutral minions released.
Shaman actually has a ton of 1 and 2 drops. But they are almost all awful. Air Elemental, Dust Devil, Wartbringer, Witch's Apprentice, Brrloc, Fireplume Harbinger, Ghost Light Angler, Kobold Hermit, Murmuring Elemental, Omega Mind.
As an aggro or token deck, there's very little in the Shaman toolbox to get ahead or go wide with, which is why people play Even. But then you lose Bloodlust, which is like the whole fucking point of being a token deck. That's why Even Shaman has to play a bunch of midrange garbage and hope that Hagatha can pull a win out of her ass.
The fact that Even Shaman is competitively viable says a lot more about Genn than it does about Shaman, IMO.
The problem is that if Shaman does get a good early game, Flametongue Totem becomes a 2-mana 4/3 with charge. Broken. It is part of the reason Midrange Shaman was so good during WOG and ONIK, and why Aggro Shaman was so good during MSG. Not sure what the solution is. But Shaman shouldn't be given a good early game minion while FT is still in the game.
Let's be honest here. If it weren't for Genn Greymane (and Shudderwock but that deck took a huge hit) Shaman in Standard would remain the dead class it's been during the Frozen Throne and Catacombs days. Why would you play e.g. Token Shaman (regardless of Evolve shenanigans) when Even Shaman is so much more consistent? Nuff said.
The main issues are the RNG nature and mainly the Overload keyword. It's impossible to balance as been shown by the era of Tunnel Trogg. Either utterly broken or useless, there was never a middle ground. Also, the class base cards are mostly bad which is why Shaman, similar to Priest, is very much reliant on getting support from expansions.
Shaman don't have a problem. I mean the only problem is that they only can play Even Shaman and after nerfs no other version i viable. But this is a Genn/Baku-problem. I mean Even Paladin/Odd Paladin, Even Warlock, Odd Rogue, Odd Warrior, Odd Mage and (maybe) now Odd Druid is the best way to build every class. It is because these hero powers are a free "card" (play a 1/1/ play two 1/1's, get a card, gain 4 amor, equip a 2/2 weapon, cast Flame Geyser) you can play turn after turn without using a card.
I think shaman does a little bit of everything (aside from secrets, ramp and armour). It's a versatile class at the moment (obviously volcano is rotating which is a powerful tool for control variants). It does have more potential I think, just nothing seems to have been refined - and it has a better early game than some classes, druid is a nightmare to play right now. Even shaman is a fun deck. I agree though that Hunter, rogue and paladin are just so much more powerful in the mid-range stakes, with huge tempo swings in their midgame from deathrattle, or powerful finishers in the late game via recruit (for hunter at least). I think the rotation can't come soon enough - depending on the next set, I think shaman could be really cool if they finish off some of the stuff they've introduced recently.
Shaman was designed as a Jack of All Trades class, the Red Mage of Hearthstone. The hero power can have many different effects that sort of mimic what other classes can do (namely Paladin, Warrior and Priest), but it is randomized. Shaman has burst spells, board clears, token synergy, healing, taunts, weapons, drawing mechanics... just (mostly) on an inferior level compared to what other classes have.
So, Shaman being in a position where it is adopting a playstyle that other classes can do better is part of its design. The big benefit is, that it usually has some tools available in every direction, meaning that it can be played as almost anything. Of course, like in many RPGs, it's better in Hearthstone to be good at one thing than mediocre at many. But unlike most classes, Shaman is usually not limited to one playstyle only, at least theoretically speaking.
The problems you describe for this year are nothing new, and to some extent even intended.
Looking into next year with the rotation, I'd agree that Shaman looks pretty decent actually. Even Shaman will keep many of its good cards, so it might stick around in a weaker form. Aggro/Midrange Shaman has gotten some reasonable cards this year, and a LOT of board clears, armor and healing effects will leave the format. For any kind of Control or Combo Shaman, the loss of Volcano and Healing Rain is likely too much to compensate.
Certainly doesn't help that they nerfed Unstable Evolution before evolve shaman ever became a good deck. (by slowing down the time it takes to evolve things).
The main issue with the recent nerf to Shudderwock(by nerfing Saronite Chain Gang) is it was at the very least a very unique deck. If the recent nerfs had actually killed odd paladin I might give them some credit, but it didn't, if anything all the nerfs did was reduce the variety in the decks you encountered.
Well, Path of Exile has the Scion class and Hearthstone has Shaman. Shaman can do all but all other classes can do better. It has been true for almost the entire game's lifetime, the first time i really grabbed shaman as quite an OTP was during GvG as Mech Sham but then Mage could achieve the same thing much better but that Power Mace tho.
I've played all the deck archetypes that existed for shaman as of today and yeah i always had in mind that another class could likely do better with that same archetype but who cares, they can't summon a 0/2 taunt for 2. I did a post in here more than a year ago about the class most dampening aspect : overload. Statements remain true, the base cards of shaman are essentially overload cards and ever since Shamanstone is over, they only released two cards to make up for the downside of overload which are the 3/2 that had the lava surge effect from Old gods and as of late, Likkim from RR.
Blizzard is so affraid to offer shaman a gameplay that evolve around this mechanic because not only it can proves fun killing and hard to play around but also they cannot "rework" it because it's part of the evergreen which means that either they bring shaman a new identity during each expansion or they don't and we end up waiting another couple of month hoping to get a viable deck archetype. And if you think about it, that explains why Shaman can play so much things another class can run yet better and its most efficient archetype is one that is brought by a neutral mechanic coupled with standalone class cards.
Here are the decks i play :
Note : the last deck named "cacarniflore" is a play word of the french version of shudderwock, basically i renamed it shittierwock. I just precise that so you can aknowledge how genuine my post is.
but standard is what it is anyways, the whole format is weird... even shaman is absolute bullshit in wild, everyone hates it, its almost as bad as wild
As a Mage main, my greetings. I can feel your struggle, but Mage has been in such a underwhelming spot the whole year of raven. Shaman at least got the loved / hated Shuderwock, but Mage didn´t have a successful deck for a very long time. Sure, Big Spell Mage is doing ok, but that´s about it, just ok. Tempo mage was also doing relatively fine during boomsday launch and then got killed by the nerf to Mana Wyrm. Odd Mage is ok, but not good enough. That´d be the definition of Mage this whole year, fine but not good enough. Sorry for trying to snatch your topic and rant about the Mage class, but I just feel like many people are pitying Warrior, Shaman (and now also Druid) classes, while Mage is just a below average class for a very long time. I say below average, because it hasn´t been an absolute trash, maybe that´s why people don´t whine about it, but a below average class just can´t compete.
I've been working on this for about 150 games now:
It's a really strong midrange deck which can also sustain way into lategame. It works pretty well against every non-bullshit deck (looking at you, Horsemen Paladin), even Hunter.