Control decks usually have more spell than minions, you need a way to get minions over and over if you want to play the control game, no more minions then you have a dead hero power. Shaman barely has minions that can affect board control in a immediate way like flame ele. You need a minion heavy deck or a way to generate some with stuff like Spirit Echo.
If only the hero power was about summon and not play, it would have been a different story because then cards such as Feral spirit would be insane.
But anyway, you need a lot of minions or then you'll run out of steam but you'll meat the issue with her battlecry.
The card is good but the rest of shaman's pool is highly messy so putting up a deck that has everything you need to make this work is very very hard.
I won't disagree, it is a good card. It grants you a board clear without random numbers and overload, and card generation. Both of which are limited in the Shaman class.
The issue is the archetype it's designed for, Control Shaman, is not in a good place. And this card alone won't fix it (nor will any of the other Shaman cards revealed so far).
Control Shaman needs a win condition. Control Warlock has Rin/N'Zoth/Gul'dan, Control Warrior has DMH and the fatigue game. Quest Mage/Malygos Druid stalls until it has the OTK. I could go on.
What does Shaman have? You can generate as much value as you like, but if you have no end game plan you're not going to win the Control game.
Control decks usually have more spell than minions, you need a way to get minions over and over if you want to play the control game, no more minions then you have a dead hero power. Shaman barely has minions that can affect board control in a immediate way like flame ele. You need a minion heavy deck or a way to generate some with stuff like Spirit Echo.
If only the hero power was about summon and not play, it would have been a different story because then cards such as Feral spirit would be insane.
But anyway, you need a lot of minions or then you'll run out of steam but you'll meat the issue with her battlecry.
The card is good but the rest of shaman's pool is highly messy so putting up a deck that has everything you need to make this work is very very hard.
I think there's plenty of room for minions in a control Shaman deck. Cards like Stonehill Defender, and Zola the Gorgon can generate lots of minions in hand while still leaving plenty of room for spells, especially paired with Murmuring Elemental.
I don't know if Grumble will makes its way into this kind of archetype, but that's obviously another way to get extra value out of the hero power.
The deck Hagartha would fit in would work like this: Take damages, hero power, grind when necessary, heal, Hagartha, play minions, grind more, exhaust the opponent. But without Jade to overcome the opponent I don't see it being really good except versus aggro decks.
We still haven't seen the rest of the shaman cards, and if they're making hagatha I'm pretty sure they are pushing some good control toosl for shaman. I can't wait!
The power level of the DKs is dependant on the deck synergy and the matchup.
We can't say yet if she'll get buffed by proxy cos if Shaman got other broken cards then this card could become a staple- and it could also become a counter to certain decks.
Atm it looks way too slow.. I don't know if Shaman will get anything strong enough to allow it to survive until turn 8 to contest refill-Paladin, and I can't see how a hand full of random spells will outvalue late game vs Warlock.
Agreed that it's going to be tough to clear several dude boards unless we get some better AOE, but Shaman can go toe-to-toe with almost anybody in the value game, imo. The slower Warlock decks will be losing a pretty significant part of their decks with N'Zoth rotating out, not to mention Hex counters so much of what the Warlock does to begin with. Even with Shaman in an awful spot right now I have a pretty strong win rate against control locks.
The biggest hurdle will be whether or not value and outlast control makes a comeback. So many of the control decks in recent metas have had other win conditions built in, and with Dirty Rat rotating out we don't have a way to break up combos.
[b]Control decks usually have more spell than minions, you need a way to get minions over and over if you want to play the control game, no more minions then you have a dead hero power. Shaman barely has minions that can affect board control in a immediate way like flame ele. You need a minion heavy deck or a way to generate some with stuff like Spirit Echo.[/b]
If only the hero power was about summon and not play, it would have been a different story because then cards such as Feral spirit would be insane.
But anyway, you need a lot of minions or then you'll run out of steam but you'll meat the issue with her battlecry.
The card is good but the rest of shaman's pool is highly messy so putting up a deck that has everything you need to make this work is very very hard.
That's quite literally the biggest issue I have with Hagatha the Witch. The hero doesn't fit aggressive decks filled with many small minions, since it would eventually nuke your Murlocs or whatsoever. Control Shaman would run lots of removals, healing and so on coupled with only few good minions (=gaining little value from Hagatha). As of now, that archetype has been dead since ages due to the lack of card draw, early game and most importantly, an actual win condition. Okay, there is Crusher Shaman, but it's prone to Silence and is mostly a combo deck (albeit still being one of my favorites even though it could need more Overload synergy).
In my opinion only the minion-heavy Elemental shell could be a place for it. But we'll have to see if it can survive without the Jade package and the tools to contest early aggression. It surely has potential given the various toolbox cards (e.g. Murmuring Elemental/Grumble, Worldshaker/Kalimos, Primal Lord/Servant of Kalimos). However, I'm not sure it's random spells (which could clog your hand) what it needs.
A Hagatha deck will likely be my first play test in the new expansion. Here's my spell & token take on it so far - curving small minions (with the help of Ravencaller) into cauldrons, bogshapers & Hagatha;
Bogshaper really helps with making Hagatha the Witch even more playable! Very excited :) Now we are just waiting on the two or so new playable shaman spells... *crosses fingers they are good*
A Hagatha deck will likely be my first play test in the new expansion. Here's my spell & token take on it so far - curving small minions (with the help of Ravencaller) into cauldrons, bogshapers & Hagatha;
She would go from meh to AMAZING with one change--if her battlecry said "Hex all minions." She would counter warlocks as a class and give priests a great deal of pain.
She would go from meh to AMAZING with one change--if her battlecry said "Hex all minions." She would counter warlocks as a class and give priests a great deal of pain.
I truly wish THIS was the battlecry.
If that was the battlecry then they would have to make a totally weak heropower. I'm actually fine with the heropower because it combos so nicely with having small minions on your side with a Witch's Cauldron up. IF the cauldron is still up and at full health on your turn you cast Hagatha then you'll fill your hand with some random spells.
Now with Bogshaper there's finally some sort of card draw, although only in the late game but you could bridge that time with Mana Tide Totem. The former would ask for a lot of (cheap) spells to be played but not in the deck itself, as otherwise we'd have little minions left (to gain value from Hagatha the Witch). Let's say you play Hagatha as a follow-up... since there are no viable Deathrattle minions (White Eyes will move to Wild) that leaves only the late game Elementals (Grumble, Worldshaker, Stone Sentinel, Blazecaller, Al'Akir the Windlord, Kalimos, Primal Lord, Ozruk) as a sort of win condition.
As someone mentioned in the revelation thread, you'd first need to survive until turn 7/8 against aggressive decks which is probably going to be difficult with the loss of Jade Claws, Devolve, Maelstrom Portal or Jade Lightning. Yeah, I know that Elemental Shaman is a viable counter to Aggro decks with e.g. Tar Creeper, Hot Spring Guardian or Tol'vir Stoneshaper but does that hold true after the rotation? Also, is this deck supposed to beat Control archetypes such as Cubelock, Big Priest or the like? I'm not so sure but we'll see.
I think for many Archtypes of WW it comes down to one Question:
Can they beat Control/ Cubelock?
At least shaman has a verry good card in Hex in its arsenal but thats not enough, plenty of cards to see thought.
I would abolutely like more control deck diversity and i realy hope itll be enough for a control shaman deck.
Ok, give shaman "Call For Elements" broken like Call To Arms and the class will be fine.
Control decks usually have more spell than minions, you need a way to get minions over and over if you want to play the control game, no more minions then you have a dead hero power. Shaman barely has minions that can affect board control in a immediate way like flame ele. You need a minion heavy deck or a way to generate some with stuff like Spirit Echo.
If only the hero power was about summon and not play, it would have been a different story because then cards such as Feral spirit would be insane.
But anyway, you need a lot of minions or then you'll run out of steam but you'll meat the issue with her battlecry.
The card is good but the rest of shaman's pool is highly messy so putting up a deck that has everything you need to make this work is very very hard.
I won't disagree, it is a good card. It grants you a board clear without random numbers and overload, and card generation. Both of which are limited in the Shaman class.
The issue is the archetype it's designed for, Control Shaman, is not in a good place. And this card alone won't fix it (nor will any of the other Shaman cards revealed so far).
Control Shaman needs a win condition. Control Warlock has Rin/N'Zoth/Gul'dan, Control Warrior has DMH and the fatigue game. Quest Mage/Malygos Druid stalls until it has the OTK. I could go on.
What does Shaman have? You can generate as much value as you like, but if you have no end game plan you're not going to win the Control game.
Awful card. Deathseer is unequivocally better.
Have fun getting totemic might and ice fishing.
The deck Hagartha would fit in would work like this:
Take damages, hero power, grind when necessary, heal, Hagartha, play minions, grind more, exhaust the opponent. But without Jade to overcome the opponent I don't see it being really good except versus aggro decks.
We still haven't seen the rest of the shaman cards, and if they're making hagatha I'm pretty sure they are pushing some good control toosl for shaman. I can't wait!
Why u hav to be mad? is only card gaem.
I just can't wait to see my Morgl turn into Thrall and then into Hagatha in one game. topkek memes!
A Hagatha deck will likely be my first play test in the new expansion. Here's my spell & token take on it so far - curving small minions (with the help of Ravencaller) into cauldrons, bogshapers & Hagatha;
Scholomance Academy Theorycrafts
Bogshaper really helps with making Hagatha the Witch even more playable! Very excited :) Now we are just waiting on the two or so new playable shaman spells... *crosses fingers they are good*
I also agree that elemental spell shaman is gonna explode all over the place.
Here's one take
Please don't tell my girlfriend about my card collection...
Now with Bogshaper there's finally some sort of card draw, although only in the late game but you could bridge that time with Mana Tide Totem. The former would ask for a lot of (cheap) spells to be played but not in the deck itself, as otherwise we'd have little minions left (to gain value from Hagatha the Witch). Let's say you play Hagatha as a follow-up... since there are no viable Deathrattle minions (White Eyes will move to Wild) that leaves only the late game Elementals (Grumble, Worldshaker, Stone Sentinel, Blazecaller, Al'Akir the Windlord, Kalimos, Primal Lord, Ozruk) as a sort of win condition.
As someone mentioned in the revelation thread, you'd first need to survive until turn 7/8 against aggressive decks which is probably going to be difficult with the loss of Jade Claws, Devolve, Maelstrom Portal or Jade Lightning. Yeah, I know that Elemental Shaman is a viable counter to Aggro decks with e.g. Tar Creeper, Hot Spring Guardian or Tol'vir Stoneshaper but does that hold true after the rotation? Also, is this deck supposed to beat Control archetypes such as Cubelock, Big Priest or the like? I'm not so sure but we'll see.
Well spotted Fabjx. For some reason I keep forgetting about Karazhan rotating.
Please don't tell my girlfriend about my card collection...
I thought Hagatha is free card :o d'oh