I prefer cards that synergize with Stealth as it should be + a weapon/spell that replaces your current hero power in control games (e.g. Flying Dagger: Deal 2 damage to a minion and 1 damage to the enemy hero)
The last time I saw a Rogue with windfury, they used Burgle to create a Doomhammer (I was a Shaman at the time), and one Tinker's Sharpsword Oil and Deadly Poison later and the game was pretty much over. No, Rogue does not need windfury, what they need is more consistent and practical cards from the next adventure/expansion. Tempo Rogue is still something people can do, Rogue just needs some pieces to help it come together better in the current meta.
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"Speculation is foolish when the tools of certainty are available." —Cinna, Vedalken Consul
Combo is the problem, i feel. Would it really break the game if SI:7 and Undercity Valiant just did their ping damage when played ? Would it be awful if Sabotage, Tinker's Oil and Shado-Pan Cavalry just straight up worked to their full potential right out of the box ?
And yea. The whole hero power / inspire thing. Its funny how my rogue became MUCH more viable the moment i tossed in 2 Sideshow Spelleaters and Justicar Trueheart, and otherwise just went full Burgle control. Pro-tip, if you dont have summon a weapon as hero power, Poisoned Blade becomes pretty decent.
Its sad panda time when i face up against Rogues though.
Combo is the problem, i feel. Would it really break the game if SI:7 and Undercity Valiant just did their ping damage when played ? Would it be awful if Sabotage, Tinker's Oil and Shado-Pan Cavalry just straight up worked to their full potential right out of the box ?
And yea. The whole hero power / inspire thing. Its funny how my rogue became MUCH more viable the moment i tossed in 2 Sideshow Spelleaters and Justicar Trueheart, and otherwise just went full Burgle control. Pro-tip, if you dont have summon a weapon as hero power, Poisoned Blade becomes pretty decent.
The last time I saw a Rogue with windfury, they used Burgle to create a Doomhammer (I was a Shaman at the time), and one Tinker's Sharpsword Oil and Deadly Poison later and the game was pretty much over. No, Rogue does not need windfury, what they need is more consistent and practical cards from the next adventure/expansion. Tempo Rogue is still something people can do, Rogue just needs some pieces to help it come together better in the current meta.
tempo rogue? You mean not good in early game, not good in late game either? Everybody will just crush you on the ladder.. how many rogues did you meet on ladder? And when you did, did they won? :D
Rogue needs lot of cards, the whole insipire mechanic screw rogue over. Rogue needs new, better hero power. Rogue just cant use hero power every turn, every other class can. You lose a lot of momentum and waste some mana by not playing hero powers. Rogues needs card draw.Sprintwas always terrible card, just because people are playing it now doesn't mean it became good. Its still shit, but we havent got anything else.
I like the mill rogue, blizzard seems to be pushing this idea quite a lot. But than again, release cards like Beneath the Grounds that are uplayable in mill(even though people thinks otherwise). It would be usable, if it worked differently.
Yeah most rogue archetypes are quite off/way worse and inconsistent than other classes. I don't think it needs many cards just a couple of cards that will be powercreeped to fulfill the classes niche and make existing cards playable. I mean Anub'ar Ambuser, Ogre Ninja, Poisoned Blade are all gimmick cards that are a disgrace for them to be class cards (I still don't understand why Shade of Naxx was not the rogue specific from that set). While other classes are getting cards that can synergise among them rogue is only getting wild cards with no combining force. If Blizzard does not intend to make changes (most probable), they need to stop make uninteractive/unfun cards for the class cause I don't think it can take much more...
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'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
The last time I saw a Rogue with windfury, they used Burgle to create a Doomhammer (I was a Shaman at the time), and one Tinker's Sharpsword Oil and Deadly Poison later and the game was pretty much over. No, Rogue does not need windfury, what they need is more consistent and practical cards from the next adventure/expansion. Tempo Rogue is still something people can do, Rogue just needs some pieces to help it come together better in the current meta.
tempo rogue? You mean not good in early game, not good in late game either? Everybody will just crush you on the ladder.. how many rogues did you meet on ladder? And when you did, did they won? :D
Rogue needs lot of cards, the whole insipire mechanic screw rogue over. Rogue needs new, better hero power. Rogue just cant use hero power every turn, every other class can. You lose a lot of momentum and waste some mana by not playing hero powers. Rogues needs card draw.Sprintwas always terrible card, just because people are playing it now doesn't mean it became good. Its still shit, but we havent got anything else.
I like the mill rogue, blizzard seems to be pushing this idea quite a lot. But than again, release cards like Beneath the Grounds that are uplayable in mill(even though people thinks otherwise). It would be usable, if it worked differently.
Why is Beneath the grounds unplayable in mill? It doesnt give ur opponent more cards in their deck unless they're already in fatigue. The obvious problem of this card is that you pay the cost without getting the benefit right away. I think the problem with mill rogue is that the meta is too aggro centric. Cant give pally or hunter more cards i guess.
Combo is the problem, i feel. Would it really break the game if SI:7 and Undercity Valiant just did their ping damage when played ? Would it be awful if Sabotage, Tinker's Oil and Shado-Pan Cavalry just straight up worked to their full potential right out of the box ?
I mean, yeah kind of. A 3 mana 3/3 with built in Arcane Shot? A 4 mana +6 Attack spread across two sources buff?
Rogue is currently suffering from something that happens in a number of games: over cautiousness for past crimes. Miracle Rogue was super broken and they made strong cards like Loatheb to try and counter it and it still wasn't enough. So they nerfed cards to kill off Miracle Rogue. It seems since then, Blizzard has been reluctant to really push the power of Rogue/Combo cards since Naxx. I mean, really the only card played in competitive rogue that's been released since Naxx is Oil (I Think?) and aside from that nothing has really seen anything beyond fringe gimmick decks like mech rogue and mill rogue.
It happens in other games too. The creator pushes power levels until they are stupid strong, realize "Wow, this isn't good" and they scal;e back power a lot to the point where it's too weak and then incrementally work their way back up. Rogue just feels like it's on a painfully slow path.
Every Rogue spell needs to be 2 mana overcostet because they have Preperation, like every druid minion is overcostet 2 because they have inerv.....WAITAMINUTE!
Rogue doesn't need more card draw, they need more strong healing or better offense currently rogues aren't the sneaky aggressive class I feel it should be.. Idk about wow but an assassin in every RPG is a sneaky character that waits for the right time to strike and kill the valuable target. Something like that should be the theme of the game play.
Combo is the problem, i feel. Would it really break the game if SI:7 and Undercity Valiant just did their ping damage when played ? Would it be awful if Sabotage, Tinker's Oil and Shado-Pan Cavalry just straight up worked to their full potential right out of the box ?
And yea. The whole hero power / inspire thing. Its funny how my rogue became MUCH more viable the moment i tossed in 2 Sideshow Spelleaters and Justicar Trueheart, and otherwise just went full Burgle control. Pro-tip, if you dont have summon a weapon as hero power, Poisoned Blade becomes pretty decent.
There also needs to be a WoW lore connection in Hearthstone. Windfury is pretty much only a Shaman thing, as such you don't see other class cards having it.
Combo is the problem, i feel. Would it really break the game if SI:7 and Undercity Valiant just did their ping damage when played ? Would it be awful if Sabotage, Tinker's Oil and Shado-Pan Cavalry just straight up worked to their full potential right out of the box ?
I mean, yeah kind of. A 3 mana 3/3 with built in Arcane Shot? A 4 mana +6 Attack spread across two sources buff?
Rogue is currently suffering from something that happens in a number of games: over cautiousness for past crimes. Miracle Rogue was super broken and they made strong cards like Loatheb to try and counter it and it still wasn't enough. So they nerfed cards to kill off Miracle Rogue. It seems since then, Blizzard has been reluctant to really push the power of Rogue/Combo cards since Naxx. I mean, really the only card played in competitive rogue that's been released since Naxx is Oil (I Think?) and aside from that nothing has really seen anything beyond fringe gimmick decks like mech rogue and mill rogue.
It happens in other games too. The creator pushes power levels until they are stupid strong, realize "Wow, this isn't good" and they scal;e back power a lot to the point where it's too weak and then incrementally work their way back up. Rogue just feels like it's on a painfully slow path.
No disrespect but your comment is kinda off here. SI:7 *IS* already a 3 mana 3/3 with built in Arcane Shot. Removing Combo just makes it more usable. Tinker's IS already a 4 mana 6 attack spread over 2 buff sources. And again, removing combo makes it more usable.
Edit: to be fair, some cards are strong enough to warrant the combo limitation, i feel Tinker's is probably one of those. I dont think Undercity Valiant, SI:7 Agent and Shado-Pan Cavalry is though.
Combo is the problem, i feel. Would it really break the game if SI:7 and Undercity Valiant just did their ping damage when played ? Would it be awful if Sabotage, Tinker's Oil and Shado-Pan Cavalry just straight up worked to their full potential right out of the box ?
I mean, yeah kind of. A 3 mana 3/3 with built in Arcane Shot? A 4 mana +6 Attack spread across two sources buff?
Rogue is currently suffering from something that happens in a number of games: over cautiousness for past crimes. Miracle Rogue was super broken and they made strong cards like Loatheb to try and counter it and it still wasn't enough. So they nerfed cards to kill off Miracle Rogue. It seems since then, Blizzard has been reluctant to really push the power of Rogue/Combo cards since Naxx. I mean, really the only card played in competitive rogue that's been released since Naxx is Oil (I Think?) and aside from that nothing has really seen anything beyond fringe gimmick decks like mech rogue and mill rogue.
It happens in other games too. The creator pushes power levels until they are stupid strong, realize "Wow, this isn't good" and they scal;e back power a lot to the point where it's too weak and then incrementally work their way back up. Rogue just feels like it's on a painfully slow path.
No disrespect but your comment is kinda off here. SI:7 *IS* already a 3 mana 3/3 with built in Arcane Shot. Removing Combo just makes it more usable. Tinker's IS already a 4 mana 6 attack spread over 2 buff sources. And again, removing combo makes it more usable.
Edit: to be fair, some cards are strong enough to warrant the combo limitation, i feel Tinker's is probably one of those. I dont think Undercity Valiant, SI:7 Agent and Shado-Pan Cavalry is though.
If you're telling me SI:7 is 3/3 for 3 with build in Arcane Shot in the same sentence that you're suggesting removing the word "Combo" will meaningfully make Rogue more viable I'd suggest you're kind of off. SI:7 requires another card to be played prior to him before he's a 3/3 for 3 +2 damage battlecry - which means more often than not for that effect he is not a 3 drop. That's kind of your point, isn't it? You want to buff him by removing "Combo"? If you think that's a substantial buff (which I am also arguing it is, I just think it's too much buff), how can you say that's what he already is?
SI:7 Agent is already one of the strongest Combo cards available to Rogue. I think it's a little disingenuous to say otherwise. The reason that many of the combo cards are balanced is because without Combo they'd just be better versions of other cards in the game. I do think Shado-pan Cavalry is a little bit silly as it's supposed to be a discounted Boulderfist Ogre but because Combo is likely requiring at least 1+ mana being expended before you cast him that's kind of dumb. While that card could definitely be re-worked I don't think a 3/3 for 3 that also Arcane Shots with no other requirement is fair comparatively.
Earthen Ring Farseer. 3-3 heal 3 for 3 mana, any time. Im well aware the ability to affect the enemy board is more valuable, but SI:7 is a class card and apart from WSC most class cards are stronger than their neutral equivalents. I think buffing SI:7 by removing combo would be very reasonable, and not game breaking. It would give rogue more consistent early game. I dont disagree its one of the strongest combo cards, it clearly is. But Rogue is not in a good spot even with SI:7 as it is now and if you dont have coin or backstab wit it, youre hosed.
Blizzard do not care about their game balance, anybody who plays for more than 2 months has realized that.
On next expansion, Blizzard will try to give Rogue new tools to be a good class. And I insist on the try part.
Maybe Rogue will get an OP card and will rule the meta for 4 months, or maybe they will get nothing interesting and will still suck for 4 more months. That's all.
Shaman was garbage for more than a year and Blizzard didn't even care for the 3 first expansions. Then they gave them OP stuff in TGT, but Shaman still sucks. In 4 expansions, Rogue got 1 viable card : Tinker's Sharpsword Oil. And let's be honest, this card is pretty awful by itself.
And you all know Blizzard don't want to take community ideas so just ... stop hoping.
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GIVE HER WINDFURY AS A PASSIVE ABILITY IT'S SO EASY CMON BLIZZARD THINK HARDER.
Mod Note: Thread title has been edited to reflect the discussion within.
YES COLDARRA DRAKE IS USEFUL FOR EVERY CLASS BUT ROGUE JUST GIVE HER WINFDURY THERE ARE MORE OVERPOWERED THINGS OUT THERE
I prefer cards that synergize with Stealth as it should be + a weapon/spell that replaces your current hero power in control games (e.g. Flying Dagger: Deal 2 damage to a minion and 1 damage to the enemy hero)
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
The last time I saw a Rogue with windfury, they used Burgle to create a Doomhammer (I was a Shaman at the time), and one Tinker's Sharpsword Oil and Deadly Poison later and the game was pretty much over. No, Rogue does not need windfury, what they need is more consistent and practical cards from the next adventure/expansion. Tempo Rogue is still something people can do, Rogue just needs some pieces to help it come together better in the current meta.
"Speculation is foolish when the tools of certainty are available." —Cinna, Vedalken Consul
Troll thread is trolly...
Writing your posts/thread title in capital letters doesn't make them more important and/or smarter man...
Combo is the problem, i feel. Would it really break the game if SI:7 and Undercity Valiant just did their ping damage when played ? Would it be awful if Sabotage, Tinker's Oil and Shado-Pan Cavalry just straight up worked to their full potential right out of the box ?
And yea. The whole hero power / inspire thing. Its funny how my rogue became MUCH more viable the moment i tossed in 2 Sideshow Spelleaters and Justicar Trueheart, and otherwise just went full Burgle control. Pro-tip, if you dont have summon a weapon as hero power, Poisoned Blade becomes pretty decent.
Its sad panda time when i face up against Rogues though.
RIP yogg-saron good things don't last forever :(
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
Rogue is currently suffering from something that happens in a number of games: over cautiousness for past crimes. Miracle Rogue was super broken and they made strong cards like Loatheb to try and counter it and it still wasn't enough. So they nerfed cards to kill off Miracle Rogue. It seems since then, Blizzard has been reluctant to really push the power of Rogue/Combo cards since Naxx. I mean, really the only card played in competitive rogue that's been released since Naxx is Oil (I Think?) and aside from that nothing has really seen anything beyond fringe gimmick decks like mech rogue and mill rogue.
It happens in other games too. The creator pushes power levels until they are stupid strong, realize "Wow, this isn't good" and they scal;e back power a lot to the point where it's too weak and then incrementally work their way back up. Rogue just feels like it's on a painfully slow path.
Balancing busted cards version 1.0.
i dont think so... they will probably just give paladins more op cards AGAIN. And gimmick shit to rogues, ofc.
Every Rogue spell needs to be 2 mana overcostet because they have Preperation, like every druid minion is overcostet 2 because they have inerv.....WAITAMINUTE!
Rogue doesn't need more card draw, they need more strong healing or better offense currently rogues aren't the sneaky aggressive class I feel it should be.. Idk about wow but an assassin in every RPG is a sneaky character that waits for the right time to strike and kill the valuable target. Something like that should be the theme of the game play.
Maybe rogues need another hero power..
There also needs to be a WoW lore connection in Hearthstone. Windfury is pretty much only a Shaman thing, as such you don't see other class cards having it.
SI:7 Agent is already one of the strongest Combo cards available to Rogue. I think it's a little disingenuous to say otherwise. The reason that many of the combo cards are balanced is because without Combo they'd just be better versions of other cards in the game. I do think Shado-pan Cavalry is a little bit silly as it's supposed to be a discounted Boulderfist Ogre but because Combo is likely requiring at least 1+ mana being expended before you cast him that's kind of dumb. While that card could definitely be re-worked I don't think a 3/3 for 3 that also Arcane Shots with no other requirement is fair comparatively.
Balancing busted cards version 1.0.
Earthen Ring Farseer. 3-3 heal 3 for 3 mana, any time. Im well aware the ability to affect the enemy board is more valuable, but SI:7 is a class card and apart from WSC most class cards are stronger than their neutral equivalents. I think buffing SI:7 by removing combo would be very reasonable, and not game breaking. It would give rogue more consistent early game. I dont disagree its one of the strongest combo cards, it clearly is. But Rogue is not in a good spot even with SI:7 as it is now and if you dont have coin or backstab wit it, youre hosed.
Blizzard do not buff cards, period.
Blizzard do not care about their game balance, anybody who plays for more than 2 months has realized that.
On next expansion, Blizzard will try to give Rogue new tools to be a good class. And I insist on the try part.
Maybe Rogue will get an OP card and will rule the meta for 4 months, or maybe they will get nothing interesting and will still suck for 4 more months. That's all.
Shaman was garbage for more than a year and Blizzard didn't even care for the 3 first expansions. Then they gave them OP stuff in TGT, but Shaman still sucks. In 4 expansions, Rogue got 1 viable card : Tinker's Sharpsword Oil. And let's be honest, this card is pretty awful by itself.
And you all know Blizzard don't want to take community ideas so just ... stop hoping.