I am trying to imagine a rogue exploiting the new Inspire mechanic, as far as building a deck around it, as I am positive some people will do for certain classes. However, to me it feels that this mechanic won't work AS well for rogues as it will for other classes because it takes 2 turns to fully use a rogues hero power. So compared to other classes it feels like it won't be nearly as optimal of a mechanic to use. Maybe I am not looking at it the right way.
if the rest of the support cards are like poisoned blade, then rogues are screwed.
Yeah, I am looking at some of the mage cards, and they are sitting far more pretty than rogues currently. But then again, only 1 rogue card has been revealed. Give it time mate.
It seems to me a double edged sword. If they add the cards to make the Rogue hero power better with inspire, (like Poisoned Blade) or additional yet to be released mechanics, the meta will just shift to more Harrison and Ooze.
If the devs throw in new cards that makes Inspire good for rogues, you will just see more hard counter by weapon removal, because of the increased value of killing the weapon that the rogue has invested truck-loads of mana into.
Its not so much inspire that I worry about....its ALL the other cards that interact in some way with the hero power.
Garrison commander
War Kodo
Silver Hand Regent
etc.
I mean sure....if it was just inspire that limited us then I would be sad but could live with it. However if this xpac is going to be based around utalizing your Hero Power it runs counter to the rogues Hero Power strength...which is storing it.
From what we've seen so far, it looks like rogues won't have much fun in the inspire party. But that's ok... only 2 classes really got to take advantage of mechs (mage, shaman).
From what we've seen so far, it looks like rogues won't have much fun in the inspire party. But that's ok... only 2 classes really got to take advantage of mechs (mage, shaman).
But all could use them....
Shredder is good no matter the class.
Minibot is a great minion even if you arent running mech pally
There are lots of mechs that classes can use even without making a deck that focuses on mechs.
The them of GvG was mechs and spare parts....and all classes can get use out of them in some way shape or form.
If GT is mainly focused on cards that react to (inspire) or affect/deal with hero powers (like maiden of the lake or garrison commander) then I dont see rogue being able to make use of them for the most part.
Rogue need new great cards for sure, play other really really good deck besides oil will be great, like a new tempo rogue.
And rogue is a great tempo class, all people know that, if the new cards make rogue more tempo oriented, they dont need too many goog inspire cards (maybe cards that synergize with the weapon, in a way that harrison and ooze dont punish too much)
I would be happy to be wrong but I really only see this going 2 ways for rogue:
1. There are more cards like poisoned Blade to try encourage spamming Hero power. If they are as poorly costed as PB then it will be a pretty weak expansion for rogues as a whole.
2. Blizzard acknowledges that inspire won't really work well for rogues and offers off-themed class cards to offset this. I would almost assume that there are next to no cards that utilize inspire and instead they make solid and original cards for rogue.
I think the second would have to be the route they would have to go. HP'ing as a rogue clears any weapon buff you have on (except for poison blades). I might be wrong but my first impression was that rogues will have a very limited selection of helpful neutrals in this expansion.
I'm fully expecting a card that either lets Rogues attack twice in a turn, or a card that specifically changes their hero power similar to Shadowform. Otherwise Rogue just won't be able to utilize Inspire at all.
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Its no different for rouges then it is for any other class. Most turns where you use your hero power its to replace a 1/1 dagger with a 1/2 one. And it is only maybe once a game where you sit with a deadly poison for more then a turn. I dont get why all the rouge players are complaining, you probably hero power more then any other class in the game. Sure a mage can hero power on turn 1, 2 and 3 but if they do so they are so far behind that there is no chance they can win. Rouges however normally hero power 2-3 times in the first 4 turns of the game. So stop complaining... rouges are fine.
Poisoned Blade is the only way Inspire Rogue will work and if there is inspire stuff out there, it will have to be a control deck given how slow Rogue will have to be to use Poisoned Blade. Blizzard Please give Rogue some good epics.
I'm still imagining what Blizz is thinking about...Poisoned blade is a horribly budgeted card. Unless there are some other cards that work with it, it is going to be a completely garbage card and will be contested to be the worst epic class card of all time...Rogue already needs a lot of help and this is what they got?....on the other hand...mage is already very viable with a handful of deck types already is getting some very nice cards already in this expansion.
The inspire mechanic more or less needs the minion to survive to be viable. Most of these cards that we have seen so far is more or less "fair" when you use it once. But if you want to use it against already excisting decks you will need to use the inspire twice! And rouge is the only class that have a mechanic that can insure that, because of stealth. All other classes need to hope for some miracle that will let their inspire minion survive.
So rouge seems to get the shitty end of the stick, but they are the only class that (right now) can insure the value.
I think Rogues will just get good pirates this expasion over the inspire mechanic, I expect there to be useful pirates with maybe some stickiness or maybe even board swarming.
Dude, that's the whole problem with Rogues, they're not 'fine' :D
Playing as a Rogue without the Coin, you're doing literally nothing on turn 1. Literally. You know why? Cause Rogue as the only class cannot do shit (with class cards) on turn 1 (not a single class minion that costs 1 - Paladin can use a secret and I'm not counting Druid cause of his Innervates and Wild Growths). And on turn 2, you can do exactly this - equip a weapon. That's all. Why? Cause 2 mana your class cards require for you to combo (Defias) or to have a weapon (Barber). Still, we managed to survive (as a class) even without good class minions somehow, spells and all our trickery. The main problem is: In the expansion at least "a bit" focused on using and utilising hero power, when re-using it RUINS buffs you played for your weapon (cause you know, you sometimes don't use weapon for few turns, imagine that!) - it leaves Rogues behind. So yes, it IS different for Rogues, no matter what you write.
@Livesage:
You're wrong. They rely on weapons, not solely on Hero Power. That's why they have buffs like Deadly Poison, Barber or Oil. And when buff is used and active, using Hero Power will just destroy it. So you'll have to decide: Buff my weapon, do what I do best OR benefit from Inspire. Other class won't have that problem.
To counter your argument- Not a single rouge deck at the moment runs weapons, so rarely will using your hero power be a disadvantage. The Tinkers Oil is either used as a finisher or in combo with blade flurry so that doesnt affect your hero power either. The only time you would have a bufffed dagger is a 3/1 deadly posioned dagger. In which case you can still hero power after you use your weapon next turn. With rouge being a tempo oriented class if you sit with a buffed dagger for a few turns you have probably lost tempo to the point where you are going to lose the game because of it.
I am trying to imagine a rogue exploiting the new Inspire mechanic, as far as building a deck around it, as I am positive some people will do for certain classes. However, to me it feels that this mechanic won't work AS well for rogues as it will for other classes because it takes 2 turns to fully use a rogues hero power. So compared to other classes it feels like it won't be nearly as optimal of a mechanic to use. Maybe I am not looking at it the right way.
Any thoughts, or differing opinions?
Yeah, I am looking at some of the mage cards, and they are sitting far more pretty than rogues currently. But then again, only 1 rogue card has been revealed. Give it time mate.
It seems to me a double edged sword. If they add the cards to make the Rogue hero power better with inspire, (like Poisoned Blade) or additional yet to be released mechanics, the meta will just shift to more Harrison and Ooze.
If the devs throw in new cards that makes Inspire good for rogues, you will just see more hard counter by weapon removal, because of the increased value of killing the weapon that the rogue has invested truck-loads of mana into.
Its not so much inspire that I worry about....its ALL the other cards that interact in some way with the hero power.
Garrison commander
War Kodo
Silver Hand Regent
etc.
I mean sure....if it was just inspire that limited us then I would be sad but could live with it. However if this xpac is going to be based around utalizing your Hero Power it runs counter to the rogues Hero Power strength...which is storing it.
I'm wondering if their Inspire cards will be more powerful to make up for the inefficiency. One would hope.
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From what we've seen so far, it looks like rogues won't have much fun in the inspire party. But that's ok... only 2 classes really got to take advantage of mechs (mage, shaman).
But all could use them....
Shredder is good no matter the class.
Minibot is a great minion even if you arent running mech pally
There are lots of mechs that classes can use even without making a deck that focuses on mechs.
The them of GvG was mechs and spare parts....and all classes can get use out of them in some way shape or form.
If GT is mainly focused on cards that react to (inspire) or affect/deal with hero powers (like maiden of the lake or garrison commander) then I dont see rogue being able to make use of them for the most part.
Unless something drastic comes out soon Rogue is a goner. Prepare to stick with oil rogue for another year because it's the only viable archetype.
Legend Rogue, druid when lazy
Am I missing something? Haven't they only released one rogue card? Surely you can't judge the entire expansion based on that card alone.
Rogue need new great cards for sure, play other really really good deck besides oil will be great, like a new tempo rogue.
And rogue is a great tempo class, all people know that, if the new cards make rogue more tempo oriented, they dont need too many goog inspire cards (maybe cards that synergize with the weapon, in a way that harrison and ooze dont punish too much)
I would be happy to be wrong but I really only see this going 2 ways for rogue:
1. There are more cards like poisoned Blade to try encourage spamming Hero power. If they are as poorly costed as PB then it will be a pretty weak expansion for rogues as a whole.
2. Blizzard acknowledges that inspire won't really work well for rogues and offers off-themed class cards to offset this. I would almost assume that there are next to no cards that utilize inspire and instead they make solid and original cards for rogue.
I think the second would have to be the route they would have to go. HP'ing as a rogue clears any weapon buff you have on (except for poison blades). I might be wrong but my first impression was that rogues will have a very limited selection of helpful neutrals in this expansion.
I'm fully expecting a card that either lets Rogues attack twice in a turn, or a card that specifically changes their hero power similar to Shadowform. Otherwise Rogue just won't be able to utilize Inspire at all.
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Its no different for rouges then it is for any other class. Most turns where you use your hero power its to replace a 1/1 dagger with a 1/2 one. And it is only maybe once a game where you sit with a deadly poison for more then a turn. I dont get why all the rouge players are complaining, you probably hero power more then any other class in the game. Sure a mage can hero power on turn 1, 2 and 3 but if they do so they are so far behind that there is no chance they can win. Rouges however normally hero power 2-3 times in the first 4 turns of the game. So stop complaining... rouges are fine.
Rogues rely more on their hero power than any other class, so the Inspire mechanic will in fact benefit Rogues more.
Poisoned Blade is the only way Inspire Rogue will work and if there is inspire stuff out there, it will have to be a control deck given how slow Rogue will have to be to use Poisoned Blade. Blizzard Please give Rogue some good epics.
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I'm still imagining what Blizz is thinking about...Poisoned blade is a horribly budgeted card. Unless there are some other cards that work with it, it is going to be a completely garbage card and will be contested to be the worst epic class card of all time...Rogue already needs a lot of help and this is what they got?....on the other hand...mage is already very viable with a handful of deck types already is getting some very nice cards already in this expansion.
C'mon blizz....
The inspire mechanic more or less needs the minion to survive to be viable. Most of these cards that we have seen so far is more or less "fair" when you use it once. But if you want to use it against already excisting decks you will need to use the inspire twice! And rouge is the only class that have a mechanic that can insure that, because of stealth. All other classes need to hope for some miracle that will let their inspire minion survive.
So rouge seems to get the shitty end of the stick, but they are the only class that (right now) can insure the value.
I think Rogues will just get good pirates this expasion over the inspire mechanic, I expect there to be useful pirates with maybe some stickiness or maybe even board swarming.
To counter your argument- Not a single rouge deck at the moment runs weapons, so rarely will using your hero power be a disadvantage. The Tinkers Oil is either used as a finisher or in combo with blade flurry so that doesnt affect your hero power either. The only time you would have a bufffed dagger is a 3/1 deadly posioned dagger. In which case you can still hero power after you use your weapon next turn. With rouge being a tempo oriented class if you sit with a buffed dagger for a few turns you have probably lost tempo to the point where you are going to lose the game because of it.