Um... I mean, you guys realize that this combo has been around for quite a while right? Heistbaron came out in SoU... Were already 10 months away from they rotating naturally, and SoU came out 10 months ago... The free cards are what makes it a viable tempo deck in this insane value meta. Hunter and DH are still overall performing better. People constantly cry about Res Priest and Big Druid with 30 minute games, and Tempo Rogues are the only thing keeping them in check
Yes, Rogue can pull 6 x 0 cost cards, but.have you considered how much of Rogue's deck are cheap combo triggers? Yeah, that's right usually that 0 cost card you pull originally costed 0-2...
I don't play Rogue, and it's fine... You're going to get high rolled by Tempo and Combo decks from time to time... It's part of the game.
Not sure if you’ve noticed but by now it’s likely Blizzard creates the sort of cards intentionally.
It’s clearly mana cheating which is too easy to pull off and can reach extremes like making a few 5+ cost cards cost 0. Pair it with galakrond and you can get a fifth of your deck costing 0, which will usually hit atleast 1-2 solid drops creating near unstoppable turns in the standard format.
Honestly j think they do this on purpose because players love it, and other players hate it. They get super tilted and rant about the game but end up spending more money and continuing to play.
Although u get 4 cards for zero cost mana with fully upgraded gala. Remember it requires some setup and further investment of 3 mana to use the treasure.
The reward far outweighs the setup and it's not like you are playing Silverback Patriarch level of cards. Most of the invoke cards are decent and they generate lackeys, which can generate spells or other broken cards like Alex, DQ Alex.
There is no limit to the highroll possible from Rogue, which makes them so much frustrating to play. Demon Hunter is a blessing compared to that shit.
Too much randomness always suck. Why do you even give weakness to a class, if randomness can fix it? For example Rogue is pretty good at removing single targets, but he can't deal with wide boards, so it's not bad idea to go wide, instead of playing single threat each turn, right? Well, not anymore, since he can answer with randomly generated Twisting Nether, Plague of Death or Brawl...
It's especially annoying and frustrating, when your class can't do the same thing and is rather predictable, so your enemy can play around anything you have (if he only knows the matchup), while you have to rely on luck and can't really think ahead.
Except you just made this scenario up because ethereal lackey can only discover class cards. Brawl and Twisting Nether can be offered by Zephrys if Highlander but Plague of Death is not a thing for rogue. If there’s some way for rogue to actually access it, it involves ridiculous sequencing like cobalt spellkin from draconic lackey into pilfer into plague of death. it just doesn’t happen.
Also every salty soul in here seems to remember only the times where wand/galakrond draws were the absolute nuts and they got steamrolled and not a single game were the draws from a fully invoked Galakrond were Pharaoh Cat, Praise Galakrond, Backstab and Shadowstep and they got the win. It happens far more often than you’d think.
If your class feels boring and predictable, switch decks. There are plenty of decks out there that can do some really nutty sequencing.
Questlock can have a 0 mana draw every turn and blow you out of the game cheating out far bigger threats than rogue (malygos, dqa) whilst zoo can just kill you by turn 5 if they hit imp and your hand is slow.
Druid can kill you by turn 4.
Priest does stuff that is far more ******** than what rogue will ever be able to do.
Too much randomness doesn’t suck, people that can’t deal with it do. If your opponent hasn’t used his Zephrys yes you should play around it and each of its possible outcomes. The same goes with Dragonqueen.
If Galakrond is about to come down you have to accept the fact you may have your board completely flipped by them drawing into faceless/flik/kronx or all three of them because it happens far less than you think. Just look at rogue decklist and work out if there’s more chance of them drawing and discounting their 6+ cards or the other way around.
You totally forgot about Hench-Clan Burglar. That's probably what he's talking about. It doesn't see play in any common decks atm but it does allow Rogue to discover literally ANY spell in the game. I have been screwed by that card quite a few times because it's simply impossible to play around any of its outcomes.
9 mana draw 3 on a 5/5 is busted enough. Maybe not broken, but a very good effect. Sprint draws 4, is a spell, doesn't vie a body and doesn't reduce anything and costs 7.
So if you add discount to the equation, the card simply becomes broken - no matter if it draws low mana cards or high mana cards.
The deck plays +/- 10 4+ mana cards (or even 5+, because the only 4 mana one is Devoted Maniac, which tends to be cut to 1). On average you can expect at least one of it discounted to 0, possibly more, because you mulligan so that the cheapest cards should start in your hand. On top of that hitting even 3 cards worth 2 mana is already an effect worth 6 mana on its own - disregarding the draw itself, which for 3 cards is worth around 4 mana.
So in the very low end scenario - 4 mana for the draw 3 + 6 mana for the discount + 5 mana for the 5/5 body = 15 mana. You get it for 9.
In the very worst scenario (which I don't think happens more often than once in 500 games), when you don get a reduction at all - 3 0 mana cards drawn - you are still breaking even - you get an effect, which would be more or less expected for its mana cost. So basically what all balanced cards should be.
So no, you can't go wrong with Togwaggle, and yes, it is busted, if everything above the very worst scenario, which happens almost never, is a mana cheat.
Those are numbers, which we used to see on Secret Paladin back in the days, when Challenger used to give similarly broken mana result compared to the cost.
Big plays are more attractive to the mass population of occasional playing, average spending players. Guess who makes up the vast majority of Hearthstones income? They're not going to "outdo" themselves and attract more attention by putting out an expansion of boring cards.
I suggest Gwent for people who don't like Hearthstones direction... You can play all of the 5 cost 5/5 vanilla cards your heart desires
Yes, drawing up to 7 cards discounted to 0-mana is broken. So is drawing 3, getting a mana discount of 3x3=9 and setting up a huge Altuis play. So is having 4 spells that cost 0 mana as long as you have 7+ mana crystals and running a fairly costed 7-mana card that cheats out 3-mana beasts when you cast these 0 mana spells. It's also broken to discover and cast a 10-mana spell for free just because you are holding a dragon. Same with playing an 8-cost Libram card that costs only 4 and this list can go on forever. That's the state of the game: OP cards in OP decks everywhere and in the end it there is some sort of balance that includes big swing plays and lots of RNG.
Complaining about a single class/card doesn't make any sense though
It's ridiculously stupid when that scenario goes by and unfair, I don't think it deserves a nerf Galakrond or Heistbaron Togwaggle because the real problem is when Galakrond draw from you without getting the best out of it and you can improve it and still cost zero. The solution would be to change this interaction because all Galakrond cards and upgrades are different cards. Galakrond, the Nightmare, Galakrond, the Apocalypse and Galakrond, Azeroth's End, for example when Galakrond is upgraded and has a zero cost when upgrading it, it returns to the original cost 7 because they are different cards. I don't understand why Team 5 didn't code it that way.
It's not 'mana cheating' only that is the problem its the high-roll potential...hitting the right card and reducing mana to zero can be totally insane...we all know that...and zero skill required, you either hit the value cards, or you don't. That isn't fun for the rogue and it certainly isn't fun for opponent.
Honestly, being miracaled down by shadowstepping leeroy combos was more fun. The devs have got to do somethnig to reduce the high-roll potnetial in new cards going forwards...powerful is fine, but lucking like a lucky fucking lucker into something completely game breaking is not.
Yet rogue is not even the best deck in the game. Or the second best. Or third best. Or fourth best. Hell it's not even the fifth best!
How is it balanced that aggro DH's cards are better than every other card that does something similar? People who have pro hsreplay can look it up and see the win rates since the patch and realize DH nerfs did absolutely nothing and it's still just as disgusting. The only reason HL hunter has been doing so well is because people don't realize DH is still as strong as before. Rogue has nothing on these decks. Rogue does some unfair things at times and can high roll but when you're in a meta with enrage warrior, aggro DH and HL hunter, wand is slow. Very slow. It's useless when you're dead on turn 5.
If you think wand is strong seriously go play aggro DH and enjoy cards that are cheaper mana cost and better than every other card. Even starting at battlefiend which costs 1 mana. When mage had something similar they made it 2 mana. Rogue has many counters that are easy to play. DH has just one very hard to play counter otherwise it beats everything.