This one is rather simple, I don't play much rogue so this isn't obvious to me...
But why is it that Betrayal is almost never used. It seems like a very efficient way to deal with 1-2 minions quickly. I mean, for any other class a 2 mana removal is quite good. I don't see why not, many minions have a higher attack than health so I don't see why this couldn't be amazing... Is there just not room, or some other reason?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. - T. E. Lawrence
Honestly, I've never been a rogue player although I used to play miracle quite a bit. Betrayal is good value but it relies too heavily on your opponents board to be great. You can never be sure if you will use it in a game and while its pretty good against aggro, its almost worthless against control. Sometimes its amazing, but usually you get overkill on one minion if even that. Its better in lower ranks (around 20-15) since that is where most new players are and they usually don't place their minions in optimal positions. The final nail on the coffin is the fact that backstab and bladeflurry exist. Thses are two excellent removal spells and outdo betrayal on every level. There isn't any room in miracle, this card is the opposite of tempo so tempo rogue doesn't use it and there are better spells to use in value rogue.
to be honest, I subconsciously play around betrayal even in constructed because I always play around it in arena. It might be pretty good against aggro decks as a tech card. Why not try it out?
The only reason I see it not being used is because it leaves a minion on the board, as opposed to just wiping all three out. But for 2 mana, it does seem like efficient removal. Combo it w/ a temporary buff from abusive sergeant and you'll have very nice 3-mana removal.
Great idea about the buffing. Rogue is just not a class that has largely intrigued me with it's current builds. I haven't made the core cards for it quite yet but was looking into it. I'm guessing that with the current limitations of the rogue being restricted to Miracle and Maly builds, that face damage is just too important to fit Betrayal in.
Thanks for the replies and my question has been answered for the most part. It's usable, possibly even good, but doesn't quite fit in the Miracle Burst builds.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. - T. E. Lawrence
Betrayal might be used in a future control deck, with Earthen Ring Farseer/Ancient Healbot+Shadowstep, Betrayal for killing some stuff on the board (extremely useful against handlocks), but atm there's not a place for it, even though this card can be LOL when used on a Water Elemental
... Combo it w/ a temporary buff from abusive sergeant and you'll have very nice 3-mana removal.
Oh my, I can relate to this so much. Once in Arena, I was playing Rogue and one of my card choices was Argent Squire v.s. Abusive Sergeant (and a worthless card). I remember very clearly choosing Abusive because of 1 BGH and 2 Betrayals, although the cards are pretty close in my opinion and I would have chosen Squire normally.
It paid off when I was facing a 4/5 and a 5/4 against my empty board. I remember my opponent carefully setting down a 3/2 between the two big guys on their last turn, probably to avoid Betrayal. But I had Abusive, Betrayal and an Assassin's Blade in hand. :D
So by all means, try out the card. I suspect Mech Zoo will become very popular (and probably not only in Warlock) once GvG hits anyway, so the card could get insane value against a board-flooding meta. And you'll have the element of surprise on your side - no one suspects a sneaky, well-timed Betrayal!
It's a classic case of an "ok" card that just doesn't have a home, I tried a copy in Miracles as anti-Zoo tech over a Shiv but it was too conditional vs control without the cycle and I didn't think it was any better than another Blade Flurry or Pyromancer. Frankly I just think there are too many cards at Rogues disposal that do the same thing more consistently.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This one is rather simple, I don't play much rogue so this isn't obvious to me...
But why is it that Betrayal is almost never used. It seems like a very efficient way to deal with 1-2 minions quickly. I mean, for any other class a 2 mana removal is quite good. I don't see why not, many minions have a higher attack than health so I don't see why this couldn't be amazing... Is there just not room, or some other reason?
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. - T. E. Lawrence
It sees a lot of play in Arena. I guess in Constructed it's just too situational.
I guess the main question is always, what card would you take out for it?
Honestly, I've never been a rogue player although I used to play miracle quite a bit. Betrayal is good value but it relies too heavily on your opponents board to be great. You can never be sure if you will use it in a game and while its pretty good against aggro, its almost worthless against control. Sometimes its amazing, but usually you get overkill on one minion if even that. Its better in lower ranks (around 20-15) since that is where most new players are and they usually don't place their minions in optimal positions. The final nail on the coffin is the fact that backstab and bladeflurry exist. Thses are two excellent removal spells and outdo betrayal on every level. There isn't any room in miracle, this card is the opposite of tempo so tempo rogue doesn't use it and there are better spells to use in value rogue.
Don't Complain, Use Your Brain!
to be honest, I subconsciously play around betrayal even in constructed because I always play around it in arena. It might be pretty good against aggro decks as a tech card. Why not try it out?
The only reason I see it not being used is because it leaves a minion on the board, as opposed to just wiping all three out. But for 2 mana, it does seem like efficient removal. Combo it w/ a temporary buff from abusive sergeant and you'll have very nice 3-mana removal.
Great idea about the buffing. Rogue is just not a class that has largely intrigued me with it's current builds. I haven't made the core cards for it quite yet but was looking into it. I'm guessing that with the current limitations of the rogue being restricted to Miracle and Maly builds, that face damage is just too important to fit Betrayal in.
Thanks for the replies and my question has been answered for the most part. It's usable, possibly even good, but doesn't quite fit in the Miracle Burst builds.
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. - T. E. Lawrence
Betrayal might be used in a future control deck, with Earthen Ring Farseer/Ancient Healbot+Shadowstep, Betrayal for killing some stuff on the board (extremely useful against handlocks), but atm there's not a place for it, even though this card can be LOL when used on a Water Elemental
mfw his Yogg steals my win
Oh my, I can relate to this so much. Once in Arena, I was playing Rogue and one of my card choices was Argent Squire v.s. Abusive Sergeant (and a worthless card). I remember very clearly choosing Abusive because of 1 BGH and 2 Betrayals, although the cards are pretty close in my opinion and I would have chosen Squire normally.
It paid off when I was facing a 4/5 and a 5/4 against my empty board. I remember my opponent carefully setting down a 3/2 between the two big guys on their last turn, probably to avoid Betrayal. But I had Abusive, Betrayal and an Assassin's Blade in hand. :D
So by all means, try out the card. I suspect Mech Zoo will become very popular (and probably not only in Warlock) once GvG hits anyway, so the card could get insane value against a board-flooding meta. And you'll have the element of surprise on your side - no one suspects a sneaky, well-timed Betrayal!
It's a classic case of an "ok" card that just doesn't have a home, I tried a copy in Miracles as anti-Zoo tech over a Shiv but it was too conditional vs control without the cycle and I didn't think it was any better than another Blade Flurry or Pyromancer. Frankly I just think there are too many cards at Rogues disposal that do the same thing more consistently.