Hi guys, first thread on this site :) I just wanted to know what do you think about a tempo rogue deck without the prince, I'm using one right now and climbing is pretty fluid, the question is: Is it really worth it to remove 2 drops for rogue in this meta? I personally run 2x eviscerate and 2x saps and it works great! Let me know what you think!
Hi guys, first thread on this site :) I just wanted to know what do you think about a tempo rogue deck without the prince, I'm using one right now and climbing is pretty fluid, the question is: Is it really worth it to remove 2 drops for rogue in this meta? I personally run 2x eviscerate and 2x saps and it works great! Let me know what you think!
For all other classes Keleseth is not that good, warlock for example, can use because the 2 mana spot is not that insane must have.
Rogue is another case because shadowstep, sacrifice the 2 mana spot is hard but Keleseth duplicated bonus trumps all.
Eviscerate can be replaced for Shadow Strike, with sometimes is better with so many Creepers and Sap can be replaced for Silence minion like Spellbreaker, nothing can replace Keleseth + shadowstep.
No-Keleseth tempo rogue is faaaaaaaar from bad but Keleseth tempo rogue is better.
Ok I read some fair points but I'm curious if there are any statistics and, if that is not the case, how can I gather some. You see I find that keleseth is too much of a risk for a benefit that in the end doesn't win you the game; take for example the cubelock matchup: voidlord comes down and it doesn't matter if you have +2+2 on your minions because it shuts down your entire board (up to 4 attcacks!). So since this is a pretty heavy silence meta why not using one the best pseudo-silence/tempo card in the game (Sap) and another flexible 2 drop thath is eviscerate (burst/removal) that can serve you to take back the board or end the game going face?
Keleseth is a very strong card and it makes your deck more powerful but I feel like it isn't really needed, I've been playing a lot of tempo rogue, the variation that runs lich king and no scalebanes and a good amount of games I don't even see keleseth tbh I would say 4 out of 10 games I don't even draw Kelly and the deck still feels pretty solid, putting Saps and Eviscerate on the deck could improve some match-ups but make some others slightly worse, like I could see the cubelock match-up being better as you can get the demons back to their hands and just push face but I feel the fast match-ups would be slightly worse, you would rely a little bit too hard on drawing the Evis and being able to combo them effectively. also shadowstep would lose some power to the point of running just 1 or even running Cold Bloods instead.
yup you are right about shadowstep, infact I would like to add that the mirror matchups are very favorable because the oppenent ends up emptying their hand with the kelly-shadow combo losing card advantage and relying too heavily on future draws. The cuts that I made are on the chain gang and shadowsteps, the replacements are 1x coldblood and elven mistrels. If you want the list I'll try to post it :)
Your version is much weaker against aggro without chain gang. Also makes cobalt weaker. 4 dmg eviscerate isn't that good nowadays when aggro has a bunch of 2 or 3 health minions with divine shield or 5 health.
Shadowstep also synergize with leeroy, si7 and vilespine, and a cheap combo activator which is why it's there.
With 2x minstrels and 2x creepers in knc keleseth just does too much than 2 Saps and 2 eviscerate.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Regular NA Arena Leaderboard player. Reached #1 in NA arena leaderboard in May 2018 with a 9.07 average!
OK but consider that the classic prince rogue when loses the board is done, with this version you can firstly control the board waaay more and even come back, the inclusion of coldblood instead of the shadowstep functions as an activator and addition burst, you can sap a voidlord and then coldblood a piece on the board or leeroy to finish a lock or remove a buffed minion from the board in the paladins matchups, the chaingang is good only if buffed and there are games where you won't find your kelly. Dumping on the board the chaingang against aggro when you are behind will buy you a turn at best.
P.S. I would like to gather data to prove my point can you suggest me some tools to do that?
I've tried Saps, it just performs worse. I've piloted tempo rogue to legend multiple times and saronite chain gang is huge against aggro pally and hunters even without buff. It also protects scalebane and provides fuel for bonemare and corridor creeper. You're never gonna be that behind against aggro typically and the chain gang helps you a bit more on an even situation.
You also aren't in that bad of a position with a board wipe since minstrels fuels the deck. 2 Saps and 2 eviscerate is not gonna get you back on the board either lol
Hi guys, first thread on this site :) I just wanted to know what do you think about a tempo rogue deck without the prince, I'm using one right now and climbing is pretty fluid, the question is: Is it really worth it to remove 2 drops for rogue in this meta? I personally run 2x eviscerate and 2x saps and it works great! Let me know what you think!
Ok I read some fair points but I'm curious if there are any statistics and, if that is not the case, how can I gather some. You see I find that keleseth is too much of a risk for a benefit that in the end doesn't win you the game; take for example the cubelock matchup: voidlord comes down and it doesn't matter if you have +2+2 on your minions because it shuts down your entire board (up to 4 attcacks!). So since this is a pretty heavy silence meta why not using one the best pseudo-silence/tempo card in the game (Sap) and another flexible 2 drop thath is eviscerate (burst/removal) that can serve you to take back the board or end the game going face?
I've never played Keleseth rogue... but I can't imagine playing rogue w/o my saps and eviscerates
Not to mention my favorite card, Loot Hoarder, happens to be a two drop
So I don't have much use for Keleseth
Proud member of the real casual play network
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/222850-new-third-game-mode-real-casual-play-network
Hit rank 15 with a homebrew back in the KOFT days.
Yaayyy...
There's all my notable achievements.
Keleseth is a very strong card and it makes your deck more powerful but I feel like it isn't really needed, I've been playing a lot of tempo rogue, the variation that runs lich king and no scalebanes and a good amount of games I don't even see keleseth tbh I would say 4 out of 10 games I don't even draw Kelly and the deck still feels pretty solid, putting Saps and Eviscerate on the deck could improve some match-ups but make some others slightly worse, like I could see the cubelock match-up being better as you can get the demons back to their hands and just push face but I feel the fast match-ups would be slightly worse, you would rely a little bit too hard on drawing the Evis and being able to combo them effectively. also shadowstep would lose some power to the point of running just 1 or even running Cold Bloods instead.
yup you are right about shadowstep, infact I would like to add that the mirror matchups are very favorable because the oppenent ends up emptying their hand with the kelly-shadow combo losing card advantage and relying too heavily on future draws. The cuts that I made are on the chain gang and shadowsteps, the replacements are 1x coldblood and elven mistrels. If you want the list I'll try to post it :)
Here it is:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1019893-no-keleseth-tempo-galore-k-c
If someone knows how to obtain the text version please tell me!
Your version is much weaker against aggro without chain gang. Also makes cobalt weaker. 4 dmg eviscerate isn't that good nowadays when aggro has a bunch of 2 or 3 health minions with divine shield or 5 health.
Shadowstep also synergize with leeroy, si7 and vilespine, and a cheap combo activator which is why it's there.
With 2x minstrels and 2x creepers in knc keleseth just does too much than 2 Saps and 2 eviscerate.
Regular NA Arena Leaderboard player.
Reached #1 in NA arena leaderboard in May 2018 with a 9.07 average!
OK but consider that the classic prince rogue when loses the board is done, with this version you can firstly control the board waaay more and even come back, the inclusion of coldblood instead of the shadowstep functions as an activator and addition burst, you can sap a voidlord and then coldblood a piece on the board or leeroy to finish a lock or remove a buffed minion from the board in the paladins matchups, the chaingang is good only if buffed and there are games where you won't find your kelly. Dumping on the board the chaingang against aggro when you are behind will buy you a turn at best.
P.S. I would like to gather data to prove my point can you suggest me some tools to do that?
I've tried Saps, it just performs worse. I've piloted tempo rogue to legend multiple times and saronite chain gang is huge against aggro pally and hunters even without buff. It also protects scalebane and provides fuel for bonemare and corridor creeper. You're never gonna be that behind against aggro typically and the chain gang helps you a bit more on an even situation.
You also aren't in that bad of a position with a board wipe since minstrels fuels the deck. 2 Saps and 2 eviscerate is not gonna get you back on the board either lol
Regular NA Arena Leaderboard player.
Reached #1 in NA arena leaderboard in May 2018 with a 9.07 average!