I'm starting to level up my rogue, playing different version of Miracle. I just wonder why every list (especially in standard with no Conceal or Tomb Pillager) just doesn't run one Sprint but 2 Gadgetzan Auctioneer instead ? Ok it's super slow, but combined with Preparation you get 4 cards for 4 which is somehow very good. I got stuck several times with 2 Gadgetzan Auctioneer in my hand in the mid game and nothing to activate it, while a Sprint could have made a difference. Even for 7 mana, you draw 4 card, when with Auctioneer you still need a cheap spell to draw and which is sometime a waste to use.
So, could you enlight me on the reason why Sprint isn't used at all ?
Sprint is actually starting to see play again or at least for now because of the new K&C rogue card called Fal'dorei Strider shuffling things into your deck and when drawn summoning a 4/4 for you and if you have prep in your deck, then 4 mana sprint you could possibly summon some 4/4's whilst drawing cards.
I'm starting to level up my rogue, playing different version of Miracle. I just wonder why every list (especially in standard with no Conceal or Tomb Pillager) just doesn't run one Sprint but 2 Gadgetzan Auctioneer instead ? Ok it's super slow, but combined with Preparation you get 4 cards for 4 which is somehow very good. I got stuck several times with 2 Gadgetzan Auctioneer in my hand in the mid game and nothing to activate it, while a Sprint could have made a difference. Even for 7 mana, you draw 4 card, when with Auctioneer you still need a cheap spell to draw and which is sometime a waste to use.
So, could you enlight me on the reason why Sprint isn't used at all ?
Auctioneer give many cards or even more than Sprint + a 4/4 minion, but Prep + Sprint is an option if you don't like to run the coins Auctioneer needs.
Auctioneer generally draws less but generates Tempo, because while you draw, you keep doing things (with cheap Rogue spells).
Sometimes Sprint can be better, as you mentioned, but it is a Tempo loss, and in general the Draw + Tempo with Auctioneer is the one and only definition of Miracle.
Sprint was actually used quite a lot back in the day,pre-tgt, especially in oil rogue. Mostly because no having board presence didn't matter because on the next turn you should tinker's tinker's blade flurry for 14 damage to the enemy face and 7 damage to all enemy minions.
However most of the time you loose too much tempo,and just get overrun. and since rogue has little board clears,thats a problem
Gadgetzan is generally better because of board presence but because of the spider card people are starting to run sprint again because, you guessed it, board presence.
I got the point of tempo in miracle rogue, but I don't really see how Gadgetzan help you getting tempo. You don't do more on turn 7 with Gadgetzan for 6 and one or two cheap spells, than you would do with Prep+Sprint + some board clear with the drawn cards (except having a 4/4, which on this turn is weak anyway) ?
And with the new Fal'dorei Strider, with potentially 6 4/4 in your deck, wouldn't it be enough to make Sprint good again ?
I don't really master Rogue, sorry if it seems obvious for you.
Auctioneer is card cycling, Sprint is card drawing. they're quite different cards for different ideas. Auctioneer gets extra value out of coins and backstabs while at the same time those cards are likely having effect on board (or at the very least, it was turning useless cards into cycling cards) a key aspect why Sprint wasn't seeing play - and why it's seeing play now, is that now Sprint has a high chance to impact board.
it's all about powercreep in the end.
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''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
I got the point of tempo in miracle rogue, but I don't really see how Gadgetzan help you getting tempo. You don't do more on turn 7 with Gadgetzan for 6 and one or two cheap spells, than you would do with Prep+Sprint + some board clear with the drawn cards (except having a 4/4, which on this turn is weak anyway) ?
And with the new Fal'dorei Strider, with potentially 6 4/4 in your deck, wouldn't it be enough to make Sprint good again ?
I don't really master Rogue, sorry if it seems obvious for you.
having ANYTHING to contest the board is important, especially such a high-value target. It basically has taunt and spell taunt if they want to live.
I got the point of tempo in miracle rogue, but I don't really see how Gadgetzan help you getting tempo. You don't do more on turn 7 with Gadgetzan for 6 and one or two cheap spells, than you would do with Prep+Sprint + some board clear with the drawn cards (except having a 4/4, which on this turn is weak anyway) ?
And with the new Fal'dorei Strider, with potentially 6 4/4 in your deck, wouldn't it be enough to make Sprint good again ?
I don't really master Rogue, sorry if it seems obvious for you.
Honestly, they generate around the same value, but a card like Counterfeit coin is made for gadgetzan. Pretty useless in the sprint version. The soft taunt on gadgetzan can disrupt your opponents plays which can help a lot. Strider is the game changer. You will see rogues run sprint again.
There's a lot of stuff that goes in either version. Like I'd rather have arcane giants without sprint, and edwin works better with a deck full of cheap spells. There is nothing wrong with sprint though.
There are top miracle players trying out sprint now because of how broken strider is. We can go all in on tempo now with this deck, and with kingsbane you can go super aggressive. It's a great time for messing with our notions of what is right in miracle rogue.
I got the point of tempo in miracle rogue, but I don't really see how Gadgetzan help you getting tempo. You don't do more on turn 7 with Gadgetzan for 6 and one or two cheap spells, than you would do with Prep+Sprint + some board clear with the drawn cards (except having a 4/4, which on this turn is weak anyway) ?
(...)
So I was playing miracle Rogue a lot (like 600 games within the last year).
What I can immediately say is that you are most obviously forgetting the potential of playing Gadgetzan Auctioneer on turn six followed by 10 spells and double arcane giant. I mean that is the best case scenario, but like 3-4 spells with Mimic Pod or Fan of Knives is still much more tempo than the Sprint.
I hope it was helpful to widen your imagination :-)
I'm starting to level up my rogue, playing different version of Miracle. I just wonder why every list (especially in standard with no Conceal or Tomb Pillager) just doesn't run one Sprint but 2 Gadgetzan Auctioneer instead ? Ok it's super slow, but combined with Preparation you get 4 cards for 4 which is somehow very good. I got stuck several times with 2 Gadgetzan Auctioneer in my hand in the mid game and nothing to activate it, while a Sprint could have made a difference. Even for 7 mana, you draw 4 card, when with Auctioneer you still need a cheap spell to draw and which is sometime a waste to use.
So, could you enlight me on the reason why Sprint isn't used at all ?
General kenobi!!
In miracle rogue is better to run auctioneer because you have plenty of spell and you usually draw 3/4 cards and you have a minion on borad which is a must kill for your opponent so you also mess with his turn. In a more minion based deck you can run the good old combo of prep sprint because it is easier to do than playing auctionieer.
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Hello there !
I'm starting to level up my rogue, playing different version of Miracle. I just wonder why every list (especially in standard with no Conceal or Tomb Pillager) just doesn't run one Sprint but 2 Gadgetzan Auctioneer instead ? Ok it's super slow, but combined with Preparation you get 4 cards for 4 which is somehow very good. I got stuck several times with 2 Gadgetzan Auctioneer in my hand in the mid game and nothing to activate it, while a Sprint could have made a difference.
Even for 7 mana, you draw 4 card, when with Auctioneer you still need a cheap spell to draw and which is sometime a waste to use.
So, could you enlight me on the reason why Sprint isn't used at all ?
Because for quite a high amount of mana you do generate value but no board presence at all .
Sprint is actually starting to see play again or at least for now because of the new K&C rogue card called Fal'dorei Strider shuffling things into your deck and when drawn summoning a 4/4 for you and if you have prep in your deck, then 4 mana sprint you could possibly summon some 4/4's whilst drawing cards.
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.
Auctioneer generally draws less but generates Tempo, because while you draw, you keep doing things (with cheap Rogue spells).
Sometimes Sprint can be better, as you mentioned, but it is a Tempo loss, and in general the Draw + Tempo with Auctioneer is the one and only definition of Miracle.
Sprint was actually used quite a lot back in the day,pre-tgt, especially in oil rogue. Mostly because no having board presence didn't matter because on the next turn you should tinker's tinker's blade flurry for 14 damage to the enemy face and 7 damage to all enemy minions.
However most of the time you loose too much tempo,and just get overrun. and since rogue has little board clears,thats a problem
"you can't escape me"*
*or my mech mage.
Gadgetzan is generally better because of board presence but because of the spider card people are starting to run sprint again because, you guessed it, board presence.
I got the point of tempo in miracle rogue, but I don't really see how Gadgetzan help you getting tempo. You don't do more on turn 7 with Gadgetzan for 6 and one or two cheap spells, than you would do with Prep+Sprint + some board clear with the drawn cards (except having a 4/4, which on this turn is weak anyway) ?
And with the new Fal'dorei Strider, with potentially 6 4/4 in your deck, wouldn't it be enough to make Sprint good again ?
I don't really master Rogue, sorry if it seems obvious for you.
Auctioneer is card cycling, Sprint is card drawing. they're quite different cards for different ideas. Auctioneer gets extra value out of coins and backstabs while at the same time those cards are likely having effect on board (or at the very least, it was turning useless cards into cycling cards) a key aspect why Sprint wasn't seeing play - and why it's seeing play now, is that now Sprint has a high chance to impact board.
it's all about powercreep in the end.
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
(.o.))~ ~(('o') (.o.))~
"you can't escape me"*
*or my mech mage.
So, I have just right now found a way where Sprint is better ^^
With this kind of mulligan :
Turn 3 coin Fal'dorei, turn 4 Prep+Sprint :
I'm kidding, I know it's one in a million Mulligan, but still, it works good ^^
It comes down to this :
Sprint = value
Gadget = value + tempo
It the same reason UI is insane . You can impact the board at the same time you get value so you don't die .
But that's actually realistic now.
There are top miracle players trying out sprint now because of how broken strider is. We can go all in on tempo now with this deck, and with kingsbane you can go super aggressive. It's a great time for messing with our notions of what is right in miracle rogue.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/7imxht/lets_talk_about_kingsbane_rogue/
So would arcane tyrant's, which are 0mana 4/4 after sprint, be good too if sprint sees use again?
Dont have them to try out, and no dust left :/
What I can immediately say is that you are most obviously forgetting the potential of playing Gadgetzan Auctioneer on turn six followed by 10 spells and double arcane giant.
I mean that is the best case scenario, but like 3-4 spells with Mimic Pod or Fan of Knives is still much more tempo than the Sprint.
I hope it was helpful to widen your imagination :-)