Yeah, it's a pretty ridiculous combo. If he's holding back cards, you better bet he has Equality. It's a standard play style for the Paladin: bait damage -> opponent overplays -> Pyro + Equality -> gain board presence -> sustain and win
8/10 times they're playing this deck, so become acquainted with it:
Well, I wanted to stick to the concept of heavy Spell Damage, it's not the best way to play Rogue I'm sure and sometimes your reliance on the minions for the buff easily screws you over.
No matter what rank I play this deck at the moment, it stays around the same level: Losses to Druid, Paladin and Priest, wins against Warlock, Rogue, Mage. It's mostly due to the fact that there's so much AoE that you can easily clear minions over and over, deal a little damage, then burst them for the finish. When you're playing other classes with heavier sustain and removal, you lose steam quicker due to the nature of the deck. It's still something I want to figure out, but it has to be with how I want my deck to play.
So, it's not bad, but it wins/fails hard against certain match-ups and ends up where it's at right now in higher level play. There are certainly better Rogue decks that don't rely on "gimmicks", but I like my own cause it's more fun for me.
Headcrack can honestly go in exchange for another card, I keep it around because if you have a chance, it can easily whittle the opponent down and at times it's exactly what you need to hurry up and finish off the opponent. You can just replace it for Leeroy or something if you want, the nerf hit Headcrack hard.
Yeah, Blood Knight isn't bad at all, you might want to add Argent Squires of your own in the deck. Squires are pretty brutal in a Rogue deck for a good 1 mana minion and a cheap minion to combo early game. Add Blood Knights as well as add your own Squires and you'll have a pretty good turn 3 drop with coin. The Black Knight can be a good pick as well, since you do lack hard removal outside of Tinkmaster Overspark if you include him. Your best bet vs Druid and other control is what everyone else is running: Tinkmaster, Faceless, The Black Knight.
I meant the nerf to Headcrack in particular, 3 mana is a bit too much, but I enjoy using the card regardless.
Don't have any legendaries but want to try this deck, what are some easy-to-find replacements for the legendaries mentioned. I was thinking Ooze instead of mage. Different purpose but a purpose nonetheless
Faerie Dragons are what I'd replace for, well, a lot of things. I love Faerie Dragon. Need Thalnos? Already have two Kobold Geomancers, Faerie Dragon works! Novice/Loot Hoarder is fine as well, whichever you went with add the other.
Wolfrider/Argent Commander/Arcane Golem/Reckless Rocketeer isn't bad as a replacement for Leeroy, but my top choice is most likely Dark Iron Dwarf.
Then, for the others, adding back in Harvest Golem is also excellent.
Faerie Dragons are what I'd replace for, well, a lot of things. I love Faerie Dragon. Need Thalnos? Already have two Kobold Geomancers, Faerie Dragon works! Novice/Loot Hoarder is fine as well, whichever you went with add the other.
Wolfrider/Argent Commander/Arcane Golem/Reckless Rocketeer isn't bad as a replacement for Leeroy, but my top choice is most likely Dark Iron Dwarf.
Then, for the others, adding back in Harvest Golem is also excellent.
could you explain your reasoning for dark iron dwarf
It's an aggressive card, you're not missing out on much in terms of damage, no drawback, and creates a threat where you wouldn't mind trading with a card or tacking on damage or just playing him out if you need a creature, overall a great card in many situations. You just need a creature out and it's not much different than a charge if you're aiming for damage.
No matter what rank I play this deck at the moment, it stays around the same level: Losses to Druid, Paladin and Priest, wins against Warlock, Rogue, Mage. It's mostly due to the fact that there's so much AoE that you can easily clear minions over and over, deal a little damage, then burst them for the finish. When you're playing other classes with heavier sustain and removal, you lose steam quicker due to the nature of the deck. It's still something I want to figure out, but it has to be with how I want my deck to play.
So, it's not bad, but it wins/fails hard against certain match-ups and ends up where it's at right now in higher level play. There are certainly better Rogue decks that don't rely on "gimmicks", but I like my own cause it's more fun for me.
My experience with this deck has been identical. A different and fun way to play rogue. Strong against rush, struggles against late game control. Dunno... maybe a black knight would help. I struggle against the current druid meta with my mid-range rogue deck too, so I'm targeting a black knight to craft next.
If we can figure out that part of the game, we might have something powerful on our hands there. There's a few tricks I've been using to play against Druid in other decks:
Big Game Hunter + Dark Iron Dwarf Tinkmaster Overspark The Black Knight Faceless Manipulator
My suggest, swap out Defender of Argus and add in 2 Dark Iron Dwarf, then one Big Game Hunter. This will be a 7 mana combo to deal with Ancient of War or Ancient of Lore. Then Tinkmaster Overspark + Faceless Manipulator for a 8 mana combo to deal with everything else.
I am thinking of trying this out against all those stupid aggro/rush decks I keep encountering. How about this? I have added The Black Knight and Big Game Hunter for druids/legends and people who like to spam Defender of Argus since this deck does not include Assassinate. I also prefer Loot Hoarder over Novice Engineer due to it having 2 damage and the lack of early minions.
I dunno... the deck has 7 SP minions and 6 spells (since deadly poison doesn't scale). It doesn't seem like the right balance.
Maybe drop the two ogre magi for Leeroy and shadowstep. It gives you more damage potential. I know we're moving closer to the standard rogue deck. But without FoK and Shiv, it seems like too many SP minions.
Could drop that one dark iron dwarf since you already have several 4/4 bodies in there. Sylvanas/Leeroy might be worth the tradeoff there as one provides you with a 5/5/ body and the active and leeroy is like a cheaper argent commander.
Highly recommend Novice Engineers over Loot Hoarders, I sacked those a while ago and Novice are almost always better for Rogues in any case.
If you're looking for combo cards, I don't think there's much else in terms of prepping for combos. I have 11 two mana drops, unless you really tap into the 1 drops like Leper Gnome/Argent Squire/Southsea Deckhand, you won't find other ways to combo very efficiently. What are a good amount of "low cost cards to combo" to you?
Highly recommend Novice Engineers over Loot Hoarders, I sacked those a while ago and Novice are almost always better for Rogues in any case.
If you're looking for combo cards, I don't think there's much else in terms of prepping for combos. I have 11 two mana drops, unless you really tap into the 1 drops like Leper Gnome/Argent Squire/Southsea Deckhand, you won't find other ways to combo very efficiently. What are a good amount of "low cost cards to combo" to you?
The problem is that I don't really want to waste 2 dmg from my Eviscerate to proc another combo, or send out a Kobold Geomancer or Bloodmage Thalnos just for the combo since I need them to boost my cards up. Deadly Poison unfortunately doesn't always find it's way to my hand which leaves only Backstab and Novice Engineer early on.
I find myself a bit dead in the early game. I managed to get a 1 HP win against a rushing warlock because luckily he didn't topdeck any finishers but it took me a few turns to get going with this deck.
I have not taken it into ranked, so I can't comment on its competitiveness, but it definitely sends out some solid bursts of damage.
Has anyone played with this list or somethign similar? I grabbed this off of a stream and I want to know if someone can give me pointers on what cards I should save solely for combo, what i should mulligan for in opening hands depending on matchup etc.
Looks like a combo deck, definitely a different approach to a Rogue deck than Spell Power, but you essentially want to keep any good cards to keep the game going in your hand, Novice, Kobold, SI7, Perditions, FoK, Shiv, Deadly Poison, Backstab, and Blade Flurry are all valid options depending on who you go up against, it's a toss-up that's based on decision making relative to the possible options that the enemy has. In general, those cards will give you a safe early game to play with.
The combo deck itself gives way to high damage Edwin plays and multiple draws from Gadgetzan, you basically stay ahead of the opponent and keep the board clear until you can find a Gadget to combo Prep/Backstab/Shiv and other spells with - then drop Edwin.
Yeah, it's a pretty ridiculous combo. If he's holding back cards, you better bet he has Equality. It's a standard play style for the Paladin:
bait damage -> opponent overplays -> Pyro + Equality -> gain board presence -> sustain and win
8/10 times they're playing this deck, so become acquainted with it:
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Hmm. I am curious about going back to tinkering with rogues. Could you post your deck in its current iteration Aishi ?
Here you are
Here you are
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Care to comment on the role / effectiveness of Headcrack in this build. I keep waffleing.
Well, I wanted to stick to the concept of heavy Spell Damage, it's not the best way to play Rogue I'm sure and sometimes your reliance on the minions for the buff easily screws you over.
No matter what rank I play this deck at the moment, it stays around the same level: Losses to Druid, Paladin and Priest, wins against Warlock, Rogue, Mage. It's mostly due to the fact that there's so much AoE that you can easily clear minions over and over, deal a little damage, then burst them for the finish. When you're playing other classes with heavier sustain and removal, you lose steam quicker due to the nature of the deck. It's still something I want to figure out, but it has to be with how I want my deck to play.
So, it's not bad, but it wins/fails hard against certain match-ups and ends up where it's at right now in higher level play. There are certainly better Rogue decks that don't rely on "gimmicks", but I like my own cause it's more fun for me.
Headcrack can honestly go in exchange for another card, I keep it around because if you have a chance, it can easily whittle the opponent down and at times it's exactly what you need to hurry up and finish off the opponent. You can just replace it for Leeroy or something if you want, the nerf hit Headcrack hard.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Yeah, Blood Knight isn't bad at all, you might want to add Argent Squires of your own in the deck. Squires are pretty brutal in a Rogue deck for a good 1 mana minion and a cheap minion to combo early game. Add Blood Knights as well as add your own Squires and you'll have a pretty good turn 3 drop with coin. The Black Knight can be a good pick as well, since you do lack hard removal outside of Tinkmaster Overspark if you include him. Your best bet vs Druid and other control is what everyone else is running: Tinkmaster, Faceless, The Black Knight.
I meant the nerf to Headcrack in particular, 3 mana is a bit too much, but I enjoy using the card regardless.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Don't have any legendaries but want to try this deck, what are some easy-to-find replacements for the legendaries mentioned. I was thinking Ooze instead of mage. Different purpose but a purpose nonetheless
Faerie Dragons are what I'd replace for, well, a lot of things. I love Faerie Dragon. Need Thalnos? Already have two Kobold Geomancers, Faerie Dragon works! Novice/Loot Hoarder is fine as well, whichever you went with add the other.
Wolfrider/Argent Commander/Arcane Golem/Reckless Rocketeer isn't bad as a replacement for Leeroy, but my top choice is most likely Dark Iron Dwarf.
Then, for the others, adding back in Harvest Golem is also excellent.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
could you explain your reasoning for dark iron dwarf
It's an aggressive card, you're not missing out on much in terms of damage, no drawback, and creates a threat where you wouldn't mind trading with a card or tacking on damage or just playing him out if you need a creature, overall a great card in many situations. You just need a creature out and it's not much different than a charge if you're aiming for damage.
And collective he's technically 6 damage.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
My experience with this deck has been identical. A different and fun way to play rogue. Strong against rush, struggles against late game control. Dunno... maybe a black knight would help. I struggle against the current druid meta with my mid-range rogue deck too, so I'm targeting a black knight to craft next.
If we can figure out that part of the game, we might have something powerful on our hands there. There's a few tricks I've been using to play against Druid in other decks:
Big Game Hunter + Dark Iron Dwarf
Tinkmaster Overspark
The Black Knight
Faceless Manipulator
My suggest, swap out Defender of Argus and add in 2 Dark Iron Dwarf, then one Big Game Hunter. This will be a 7 mana combo to deal with Ancient of War or Ancient of Lore. Then Tinkmaster Overspark + Faceless Manipulator for a 8 mana combo to deal with everything else.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
I am thinking of trying this out against all those stupid aggro/rush decks I keep encountering. How about this? I have added The Black Knight and Big Game Hunter for druids/legends and people who like to spam Defender of Argus since this deck does not include Assassinate. I also prefer Loot Hoarder over Novice Engineer due to it having 2 damage and the lack of early minions.
EDIT: Just managed to beat a Control Druid at rank 5 with this deck, he never saw that 4 damage Blade Flurry coming and Big Game Hunter ate his Ragnaros the Firelord after it killed my Loot Hoarder.
I want to somehow work Sylvanas Windrunner and maybe Leeroy Jenkins in there, but I have no idea what to remove.
I dunno... the deck has 7 SP minions and 6 spells (since deadly poison doesn't scale). It doesn't seem like the right balance.
Maybe drop the two ogre magi for Leeroy and shadowstep. It gives you more damage potential. I know we're moving closer to the standard rogue deck. But without FoK and Shiv, it seems like too many SP minions.
Could drop that one dark iron dwarf since you already have several 4/4 bodies in there. Sylvanas/Leeroy might be worth the tradeoff there as one provides you with a 5/5/ body and the active and leeroy is like a cheaper argent commander.
I've switched out the Dark Iron Dwarf for Sylvanas Windrunner and also the Loot Hoarders for Fan of Knives, it should help control the field more.
The lack of low cost cards to combo with is really hurting this deck atm.
Highly recommend Novice Engineers over Loot Hoarders, I sacked those a while ago and Novice are almost always better for Rogues in any case.
If you're looking for combo cards, I don't think there's much else in terms of prepping for combos. I have 11 two mana drops, unless you really tap into the 1 drops like Leper Gnome/Argent Squire/Southsea Deckhand, you won't find other ways to combo very efficiently. What are a good amount of "low cost cards to combo" to you?
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
The problem is that I don't really want to waste 2 dmg from my Eviscerate to proc another combo, or send out a Kobold Geomancer or Bloodmage Thalnos just for the combo since I need them to boost my cards up. Deadly Poison unfortunately doesn't always find it's way to my hand which leaves only Backstab and Novice Engineer early on.
I find myself a bit dead in the early game. I managed to get a 1 HP win against a rushing warlock because luckily he didn't topdeck any finishers but it took me a few turns to get going with this deck.
I've been testing almost solely with this list for 2 days and I am having so much fun.
I have not taken it into ranked, so I can't comment on its competitiveness, but it definitely sends out some solid bursts of damage.
Has anyone played with this list or somethign similar? I grabbed this off of a stream and I want to know if someone can give me pointers on what cards I should save solely for combo, what i should mulligan for in opening hands depending on matchup etc.
Looks like a combo deck, definitely a different approach to a Rogue deck than Spell Power, but you essentially want to keep any good cards to keep the game going in your hand, Novice, Kobold, SI7, Perditions, FoK, Shiv, Deadly Poison, Backstab, and Blade Flurry are all valid options depending on who you go up against, it's a toss-up that's based on decision making relative to the possible options that the enemy has. In general, those cards will give you a safe early game to play with.
The combo deck itself gives way to high damage Edwin plays and multiple draws from Gadgetzan, you basically stay ahead of the opponent and keep the board clear until you can find a Gadget to combo Prep/Backstab/Shiv and other spells with - then drop Edwin.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post