So, what do you think ? With or without DK ? I have pretty much all the rogue cards for it except for Sherazin, Shakuand DK but dust only for one of them and I don't see Shaku as important as the others. I personally like the DK version more because of the hero power and with the DK, I can also build Mill rogue. Let me guys know what you're thinking.
IMO, Miracle needs Sherazin more than DK. Every time I've played against or with Miracle, which is like, three times... lol but If Sherazin was not played, Miracle would lose. Sherazin packs in so much "removal" against their removal, it's insanely efficient. I've had my foes continuously trade spells and minions into Sherazin which keep my other threats alive. I don't think I'll play a rogue deck without Sherazin anymore.
However, I don't own DK so I never played it myself, so maybe it's better. All I know is if my opponent played DK but no Sherazin, I still won.
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The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
But that's easy for me to say. I would insta-craft DK because it's more fun and you will be able to use it for many different builds including Miracle.
IMO, Miracle needs Sherazin more than DK. Every time I've played against or with Miracle, which is like, three times... lol but If Sherazin was not played, Miracle would lose. Sherazin packs in so much "removal" against their removal, it's insanely efficient. I've had my foes continuously trade spells and minions into Sherazin which keep my other threats alive. I don't think I'll play a rogue deck without Sherazin anymore.
However, I don't own DK so I never played it myself, so maybe it's better. All I know is if my opponent played DK but no Sherazin, I still won.
Sherazin go in miracle.
DK can go in any rogue deck (miracle, jades, N'Zoth, mill in wild, etc...)
If have dust for only one card the DK is priority.
I've only played something like 20 games of miracle since release, but my impression so far is that it probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference whether you run the DK or not. Very rarely is it going to actually decide the outcome of a game. I think I had 2 games where I planned/needed the DK for lethal, once against a control warlock where I couldn't hold the board and needed an extra Eviscerate to finish the game and once against a quest mage where I bought the extra turn where I otherwise would've been killed by the combo. But I'm guessing that the DK was also responsible for actually losing as many games, by it not being a different card during early-/midgame.
Granted it does need more testing than 20 games, and it might fit better in a different list perhaps, but I've played a lot of miracle rogue in the past and my gut feeling says that it doesn't really fit into miracle. It just shows up too late to the party. By turn 9, if you've drawn fairly well, you should've cycled pretty much your whole deck or already won or lost the game. It's hard to squeeze out a whole lot more value out of the DK hero power and as far as damage goes, you can realistically expect it to extend your reach by 4 dmg. Is that worth a card in the deck that's completely dead until turn 9? Probably not.
IMO, Miracle needs Sherazin more than DK. Every time I've played against or with Miracle, which is like, three times... lol but If Sherazin was not played, Miracle would lose. Sherazin packs in so much "removal" against their removal, it's insanely efficient. I've had my foes continuously trade spells and minions into Sherazin which keep my other threats alive. I don't think I'll play a rogue deck without Sherazin anymore.
However, I don't own DK so I never played it myself, so maybe it's better. All I know is if my opponent played DK but no Sherazin, I still won.
Sherazin go in miracle.
DK can go in any rogue deck (miracle, jades, N'Zoth, mill in wild, etc...)
If have dust for only one card the DK is priority.
That definitely fair - if OP wants to continue to use Rogue as a class outside of Miracle, then DK is the answer... but without Sherazin, you shouldn't go for Miracle. At least, from what I've seen.
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The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
I have been running Valeera the Hollow in my miracle for quite some games (20ish). But I cut her from my list now (it hurts!). I needed much more tempo to beat the druids, priests and warlocks. Their late game (turn 10+) is much stronger and Valeera the Hollow does not give me the value to compete. Instead I now run more tempo cards like Questing Adventurer and try to kill them before their late game kicks in.
For me Sherazin is very strong in miracle. If you have her early and just revive her a couple of time, its huge! I played a long time without Shaku and was fine. I recently crafted him and I am really pleased. The 1 or 2 cards he gives you are great and make him a nice 3drop.
For crafting legendaries for your miracle deck I would advice: Edwin, Sherazin, Shaku, Valeera the Hollow. Just considering fun though, Valeera the Hollow is number one ;)
I dont have the 4mana prince guy and have no experience with replacing Sherazin with him. Maybe I spend some dust on him and give it a try.
My approach is different, I try to run burst instead of tempo. I can see how tempo with questings are better then burst against druids, but in most cases I felt like i was struggleing to finish off my oponent, therefore I run Leeroy Jenkins and Cold Blood for a 14 dmg burst.
What a great answer ! I believe that my playstyle is more like yours as well, so could you give more details about your list and its success ? I'd be more than happy to try it as well :)
The DK is essential to Miracle imo. Keep in mind though, right now I am grinding at Rank 2 where 90% of the meta is Druid, Big Priest and Paladin. Against that gauntlet, I’m running 2x Vanish, and I would definitely not run both copies without the DK. The DK into Vanish is probably the most insane tempo swing in the game right now, which is what you need against decks that will out-value you. And even if the meta changes up, I see Vanish being used alongside the DK for a long time to come regardless.
But, if you want to make some other version of the deck, maybe DK is not for you. I will say though that Sherazin is not playable in any version of Rogue other than 2x Coin, 2x Prep, 2x Hallucination Mircale Rogue.
I play mostly pally nowdays as I need like 10 wins to get the golden portrait. So this deck is by no means doen or fine tuned for the meta (that is not stable yet anyway). Take the list with a grain of salt.
About the deck, I would definietly use Prince Valanar over Sherazin, Corpse Flower, because it's a defensive card, while corpseflower is a win more card and easy to remove, takes quite an effort to revive. I used mainly spells and Razorpetal Lashers to make through early game. If you struggle against aggro u can swap things around to fit 2 Swashburglar and a Patches the Pirate in.
Played the deck at rank 10 and had between 45-60% winrate dependin on what did I face as I was just beating any warlock or hunter deck that I faced. (yeah I had a couple of days when I only played against demon warlock and zombeast hunter) Taunt druid is the worst machup cause their win condition counters the decks burst.
The general game plan is to make a big gadgatzan turn, cleaning the enemy board optimaly then apply constatnt pressure and beat the enemy down within a coupe of turns (like 5 tops)
This decklist is just bad tbh. Dont craft it, not worth it. Sherazin is the best rogue legendary atm if you want to play classic miracle rogue. For more thief version Shaku is an option, if you have shaku you can add lillian voss and make it super fun to play deck already.
vanCleef is way better than Sherazin, it's not even close. I'd say that Sherazin is the clear runner up in miracle though.
Shaku is an excellent jolly card. It is useful at any stage of the game and in any build. But replaceable. Also, it is from Kraken year, so it rotates sooner.
Sherazin can be played effectively only in Miracle, and as a filler in N'zoth decks.
Valeera can be played in Miracle, Jade, N'zoth and pretty much any deck that is not Aggro/Burn - so this kinda excludes Pirate, Water and Tempo mixes. If anything, she increases your chances of burst, as well as your defences, if necessary. And she's got potential for future shenanigans.
But she's good for Arcane Giant because you can play two of them off of one card for 0 mana. I actually shadow stepped them before just so I could play more free Arcane Giants, lol
Mr. Yagut reached top Legend recently with a Deathknight version of Miracle. It is literally 1 card off of what I've reached legend with this season. Like I am saying, Vanish is utterly insane with the DK.
MrYagut probably reaches top legend ranks with any kind of rogue, he is a rogue specialist, so be aware of that (he is good regardless of him using the rogue DK or not).
However, I think the rogue DK is good and probably one of the better ones, but by no means a necessity for miracle. As another user wrote, in many cases it doesn't make a difference cause the game is decided way before you can efficiently make use of the DK. It has potential for future decks, but for miracle I'd rather craft Sherazin.
I think it is a good card that miracle needs right now to fight control decks. We aren't playing the conceal questing into gadgetzan lethal with cold bloods anymore or even leeroy shadowsteps. Rogue now wins through value and massive board swings which is what valeera helps do. So I say good card.
So, what do you think ? With or without DK ? I have pretty much all the rogue cards for it except for Sherazin, Shaku and DK but dust only for one of them and I don't see Shaku as important as the others. I personally like the DK version more because of the hero power and with the DK, I can also build Mill rogue. Let me guys know what you're thinking.
DK by far, the others are much more easy to replace.
Some lists cut the 4 drop to use the prince, heal and taunt are a weakness for rogue.
IMO, Miracle needs Sherazin more than DK. Every time I've played against or with Miracle, which is like, three times... lol but If Sherazin was not played, Miracle would lose. Sherazin packs in so much "removal" against their removal, it's insanely efficient. I've had my foes continuously trade spells and minions into Sherazin which keep my other threats alive. I don't think I'll play a rogue deck without Sherazin anymore.
However, I don't own DK so I never played it myself, so maybe it's better. All I know is if my opponent played DK but no Sherazin, I still won.
The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
You kind of need both Veleera and Shaku.
But that's easy for me to say. I would insta-craft DK because it's more fun and you will be able to use it for many different builds including Miracle.
I would try and make dust for Shaku as well.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy4GvDZjTwQ
DK can go in any rogue deck (miracle, jades, N'Zoth, mill in wild, etc...)
If have dust for only one card the DK is priority.
I've only played something like 20 games of miracle since release, but my impression so far is that it probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference whether you run the DK or not. Very rarely is it going to actually decide the outcome of a game. I think I had 2 games where I planned/needed the DK for lethal, once against a control warlock where I couldn't hold the board and needed an extra Eviscerate to finish the game and once against a quest mage where I bought the extra turn where I otherwise would've been killed by the combo. But I'm guessing that the DK was also responsible for actually losing as many games, by it not being a different card during early-/midgame.
Granted it does need more testing than 20 games, and it might fit better in a different list perhaps, but I've played a lot of miracle rogue in the past and my gut feeling says that it doesn't really fit into miracle. It just shows up too late to the party. By turn 9, if you've drawn fairly well, you should've cycled pretty much your whole deck or already won or lost the game. It's hard to squeeze out a whole lot more value out of the DK hero power and as far as damage goes, you can realistically expect it to extend your reach by 4 dmg. Is that worth a card in the deck that's completely dead until turn 9? Probably not.
The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
I have been running Valeera the Hollow in my miracle for quite some games (20ish). But I cut her from my list now (it hurts!). I needed much more tempo to beat the druids, priests and warlocks. Their late game (turn 10+) is much stronger and Valeera the Hollow does not give me the value to compete. Instead I now run more tempo cards like Questing Adventurer and try to kill them before their late game kicks in.
For me Sherazin is very strong in miracle. If you have her early and just revive her a couple of time, its huge! I played a long time without Shaku and was fine. I recently crafted him and I am really pleased. The 1 or 2 cards he gives you are great and make him a nice 3drop.
For crafting legendaries for your miracle deck I would advice: Edwin, Sherazin, Shaku, Valeera the Hollow.
Just considering fun though, Valeera the Hollow is number one ;)
I dont have the 4mana prince guy and have no experience with replacing Sherazin with him. Maybe I spend some dust on him and give it a try.
My approach is different, I try to run burst instead of tempo. I can see how tempo with questings are better then burst against druids, but in most cases I felt like i was struggleing to finish off my oponent, therefore I run Leeroy Jenkins and Cold Blood for a 14 dmg burst.
As for Valeera the Hollow for me she doubles my win conditions. I can play 4 Arcane Giants, 3-4 Vilespine Slayer, and the above mentioned Leeroy Jenkins + double Cold Blood combo. For my playstyle she is a autoinclude. Also I run Vanish and Sap as tools to make space for my finishers after I played her.
What a great answer ! I believe that my playstyle is more like yours as well, so could you give more details about your list and its success ? I'd be more than happy to try it as well :)
Interesting approach to add the burst. Ill try it and hope I can play some more Valeera the Hollow :)
The DK is essential to Miracle imo. Keep in mind though, right now I am grinding at Rank 2 where 90% of the meta is Druid, Big Priest and Paladin. Against that gauntlet, I’m running 2x Vanish, and I would definitely not run both copies without the DK. The DK into Vanish is probably the most insane tempo swing in the game right now, which is what you need against decks that will out-value you. And even if the meta changes up, I see Vanish being used alongside the DK for a long time to come regardless.
But, if you want to make some other version of the deck, maybe DK is not for you. I will say though that Sherazin is not playable in any version of Rogue other than 2x Coin, 2x Prep, 2x Hallucination Mircale Rogue.
I play mostly pally nowdays as I need like 10 wins to get the golden portrait. So this deck is by no means doen or fine tuned for the meta (that is not stable yet anyway). Take the list with a grain of salt.
About the deck, I would definietly use Prince Valanar over Sherazin, Corpse Flower, because it's a defensive card, while corpseflower is a win more card and easy to remove, takes quite an effort to revive. I used mainly spells and Razorpetal Lashers to make through early game. If you struggle against aggro u can swap things around to fit 2 Swashburglar and a Patches the Pirate in.
Played the deck at rank 10 and had between 45-60% winrate dependin on what did I face as I was just beating any warlock or hunter deck that I faced. (yeah I had a couple of days when I only played against demon warlock and zombeast hunter) Taunt druid is the worst machup cause their win condition counters the decks burst.
The general game plan is to make a big gadgatzan turn, cleaning the enemy board optimaly then apply constatnt pressure and beat the enemy down within a coupe of turns (like 5 tops)
Shaku is an excellent jolly card. It is useful at any stage of the game and in any build. But replaceable. Also, it is from Kraken year, so it rotates sooner.
Sherazin can be played effectively only in Miracle, and as a filler in N'zoth decks.
Valeera can be played in Miracle, Jade, N'zoth and pretty much any deck that is not Aggro/Burn - so this kinda excludes Pirate, Water and Tempo mixes. If anything, she increases your chances of burst, as well as your defences, if necessary. And she's got potential for future shenanigans.
If the choice is amongst those, i'd choose dk.
I dont think Valeera is all that
But she's good for Arcane Giant because you can play two of them off of one card for 0 mana. I actually shadow stepped them before just so I could play more free Arcane Giants, lol
Mr. Yagut reached top Legend recently with a Deathknight version of Miracle. It is literally 1 card off of what I've reached legend with this season. Like I am saying, Vanish is utterly insane with the DK.
http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/mryaguts-frozen-throne-vanish-valeera-miracle-rogue-top-30-legend-august-2017/
MrYagut probably reaches top legend ranks with any kind of rogue, he is a rogue specialist, so be aware of that (he is good regardless of him using the rogue DK or not).
However, I think the rogue DK is good and probably one of the better ones, but by no means a necessity for miracle. As another user wrote, in many cases it doesn't make a difference cause the game is decided way before you can efficiently make use of the DK. It has potential for future decks, but for miracle I'd rather craft Sherazin.
I'm rolling without the DK and finding pretty decent success with the GTI's MIRACLE style:
I think it is a good card that miracle needs right now to fight control decks. We aren't playing the conceal questing into gadgetzan lethal with cold bloods anymore or even leeroy shadowsteps. Rogue now wins through value and massive board swings which is what valeera helps do. So I say good card.